joe_in_philly
Well-known member
Energy Star seeks innovative ways to improve dryer efficiency
Sounds like the USA could be getting heat pump dryers
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glenfieldmathk1
Well-known member
US wouldn't cope
I mean, the Heat pump dryers of just 8KG capacity in Europe take way over 3hrs to dry the large loads, just imagine a 12KG American size unit, with a bigger drum to heat and dry your looking at roughly 4hrs. On Average US size units that are vented or Gas take about 1hr to dry a full load.
US market of mums and busy households wouldn't cope. There washing done in 1hr in a washing machine, yet clothes just sitting around the house wet waiting for the dryer.
I am from UK, so what do I know, maybe you like clothes all wet sitting around the house, but in my Experience the US appliances all seem very fast, compared to here.
They still have to make vented dryers here (as there is still a large market share in Vented tumble dryer purchases, in fact our local Co-op, that's a shop, almost like Walmart, Target etc, only has Vented dryers on display, saying they only really get sales for vented), and I am sure they will continue to make them in the US.
I am sure that the US has had enough changes with top loaders changing over the years, I am sure there doesn't need to be any more changes??
I mean, the Heat pump dryers of just 8KG capacity in Europe take way over 3hrs to dry the large loads, just imagine a 12KG American size unit, with a bigger drum to heat and dry your looking at roughly 4hrs. On Average US size units that are vented or Gas take about 1hr to dry a full load.
US market of mums and busy households wouldn't cope. There washing done in 1hr in a washing machine, yet clothes just sitting around the house wet waiting for the dryer.
I am from UK, so what do I know, maybe you like clothes all wet sitting around the house, but in my Experience the US appliances all seem very fast, compared to here.
They still have to make vented dryers here (as there is still a large market share in Vented tumble dryer purchases, in fact our local Co-op, that's a shop, almost like Walmart, Target etc, only has Vented dryers on display, saying they only really get sales for vented), and I am sure they will continue to make them in the US.
I am sure that the US has had enough changes with top loaders changing over the years, I am sure there doesn't need to be any more changes??
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Efficiency and electric consumption efficiency........
Electric efficiency is the only think I could see in a heat pump dryer......not certainly the efficiency on drying......
I'm happy with my real efficient speed queen gas dryer!
Electric efficiency is the only think I could see in a heat pump dryer......not certainly the efficiency on drying......
I'm happy with my real efficient speed queen gas dryer!
strongenough78
Well-known member
I agree with Mat. Although a cool idea, there's no way Americans will wait 3 hours for clothes to dry. If that's the case, they might as well line dry in the summer, which doesn't even take that long in the right climate. Americans already complain about the 90 minute or longer wash times with the new front loading washers, and to add 3 more hours to dry, no way. Even an hour to dry is a bit long. My average dry time for a load is about 35 maybe 40 minutes. And I usually use the auto dry on medium heat when I'm able. When I have to use a laundromat, dry times are roughly 25 to 30 minutes on high heat setting. The amount of savings doesn't seem that drastic for any one to consider it. It may take a while for savings to actually accumulate, but $700 over the life of the dryer just doesn't seem worth it. But that's just me, others may love the idea. But with the way American's like getting their laundry done as fast as possible, I don't see it lasting here.
Heat pump Dryers
American sized Heat Pump dryers are likely to not be much slower than current dryers. These will be a boom for homes without natural gas service, but the advent of expensive HPDs will make a gas dryer look very enticing as they will win hands down in total life cycle costs.
American sized Heat Pump dryers are likely to not be much slower than current dryers. These will be a boom for homes without natural gas service, but the advent of expensive HPDs will make a gas dryer look very enticing as they will win hands down in total life cycle costs.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
venting methode for heat pump dryers?
me from my point of view is that this will mean major cost how will a heat pump dryer be vented if it needs to be vented outdoors like a conventinal electric dryer and how will this effect the drying methode? because if it raise the electric cost per use this will not bring much in the saving department unless the auto cycle high heat med ect is energy wise. just wnet some info because if these are out when i went a stack set dryer on top of the washer will this be a good buy and will it require to be hookup to the washer water outlets?
Thank you to anyone who can answer this question
me from my point of view is that this will mean major cost how will a heat pump dryer be vented if it needs to be vented outdoors like a conventinal electric dryer and how will this effect the drying methode? because if it raise the electric cost per use this will not bring much in the saving department unless the auto cycle high heat med ect is energy wise. just wnet some info because if these are out when i went a stack set dryer on top of the washer will this be a good buy and will it require to be hookup to the washer water outlets?
Thank you to anyone who can answer this question
jerrod6
Well-known member
Hmm my dryer uses natural gas so I guess I am not at all interested in an appliance that uses electricity which costs much more per use than NG even if it is a heat pump. Compared to gas can't make the numbers work to an advantage given current electric rates
arbilab
Well-known member
Hold the applause......
...... until you see the prices. Beside the cycle-time difference, a compressor and closed-loop heat exchangers can't compete in sales price to either a coil of nichrome wire or a gas burner, both very simple. Unless the goobermint subsidizes the purchase price, a HP dryer won't ever pay in energy for the sales price difference. Not at US mains rates. And Americans aren't going to leap on dryers that require plumbing, there is no provision for it in our houses.
...... until you see the prices. Beside the cycle-time difference, a compressor and closed-loop heat exchangers can't compete in sales price to either a coil of nichrome wire or a gas burner, both very simple. Unless the goobermint subsidizes the purchase price, a HP dryer won't ever pay in energy for the sales price difference. Not at US mains rates. And Americans aren't going to leap on dryers that require plumbing, there is no provision for it in our houses.
Overhere heat pump dryers have been on the market for a while. They are very expensive in comparison to regular electric vented dryers, to about 3 times the price of a regular one.
Heat pump dryers are much slower than regular dryers because they dry at lower temperatures. And because American dryers use a higher temperature at drying than European dryers, the difference in drying time between a regular dryer and a heat pump one will be bigger.
Heat pump dryers don't need to be vented, they are condenser dryers. The big advantage of it is you can place them anywhere where a proper electric outlet is. Overhere in Europe that is easier I guess than on the other side of the big pond. Overhere every room in the house has outlets that can be used.
Heat pump dryers are much slower than regular dryers because they dry at lower temperatures. And because American dryers use a higher temperature at drying than European dryers, the difference in drying time between a regular dryer and a heat pump one will be bigger.
Heat pump dryers don't need to be vented, they are condenser dryers. The big advantage of it is you can place them anywhere where a proper electric outlet is. Overhere in Europe that is easier I guess than on the other side of the big pond. Overhere every room in the house has outlets that can be used.
glenfieldmathk1
Well-known member
Pump drain
Yes, heat pump condensers can be hooked up the washers water outlet drain, and the machine will pump out the water that is extracted from the clothes.
However you don't have to do this, and water collects in a tray that can be emptied by hand, but this is more maintance, and condensers boxes have to be cleaned and hoovered out regularly too, so more work for you, than a vented one. Maybe in Future, a washing machine could have a dryer hook up, where the water that comes out of the dryer, can be put back into the washer to recycle the water, saving water. I think some machines already do this in the EU, though not sure.
In terms of vented Heat Pumps, I was informed by Siemens, who were the first to introduce Heat Pump into Europe, and they said that Heat pump couldn't be used in Vented, due to vented's need continuous heat flow, whereas the heat pumps vary heat throughout the cycle and use much lower heat overall. Siemens said they were looking into a new technology for Vented that is more energy efficient, but they haven't yet launched anything.
Yes, heat pump condensers can be hooked up the washers water outlet drain, and the machine will pump out the water that is extracted from the clothes.
However you don't have to do this, and water collects in a tray that can be emptied by hand, but this is more maintance, and condensers boxes have to be cleaned and hoovered out regularly too, so more work for you, than a vented one. Maybe in Future, a washing machine could have a dryer hook up, where the water that comes out of the dryer, can be put back into the washer to recycle the water, saving water. I think some machines already do this in the EU, though not sure.
In terms of vented Heat Pumps, I was informed by Siemens, who were the first to introduce Heat Pump into Europe, and they said that Heat pump couldn't be used in Vented, due to vented's need continuous heat flow, whereas the heat pumps vary heat throughout the cycle and use much lower heat overall. Siemens said they were looking into a new technology for Vented that is more energy efficient, but they haven't yet launched anything.
stevefromsydney
Member
I purchased the AEG Protex Heat Pump Dryer about three months ago and have nothing but great things to say about the drying process. It hold 9KG and certainly takes no where near 3 hours to dry. Bedding takes about 1.30hr and a regular load ( about 4KG) of cottons takes around 40 mins.
It's a very quiet dryer apart from the first five mins where the heat pump starts getting going and it sounds like a fridge coming to life.
My only grip is it takes a little more maintenance than the condenser dryer it replaces as you need to keep three filters clean.
Other than that I would highly recommend them. The lack of high heat dryer means nothing shrinks and creases are kept to a minimum.
A link the dryer I bought
It's a very quiet dryer apart from the first five mins where the heat pump starts getting going and it sounds like a fridge coming to life.
My only grip is it takes a little more maintenance than the condenser dryer it replaces as you need to keep three filters clean.
Other than that I would highly recommend them. The lack of high heat dryer means nothing shrinks and creases are kept to a minimum.
A link the dryer I bought
The other thing is the temperature level. I read somewhere, maybe here, that because the temperature does not get as high as in a conventionally heated dryer, it does not dewrinkle perma pressed fabrics as well so they cannot be spun as fast so there is more water to remove. Don't know how much of a factor that is in daily use, but maybe there should be a small heating element to raise the temperature of the load to 160F for dewrinkling. It would not take much energy in the closed loop chamber after the fabrics are dry.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
I would not get one even if I had no Nat .gas hook-up...
Of course for the ones that does not have natural gas would be good about a little saving on electric bills, so anyway just a little electric efficiency, but let's don't talk about efficiency on drying as I personally know by living in italy and seing much of them around that they cannot reach the same heat temperatures that an electric element do and others things that I will mention later and so being efficient about performances, at least compared to the performances to which americans are used to, so they takes more time to dry of course than electric element heated dryer and of course gas ones, it is important to say that they will have to condense the water not expel the wet air as the system is that the decompressed and so cold gas allow wet air to condense water inside a condenser, which of course won't be able to condense all the wet present in hot warm air coming from the drum, so will not put in re-circulation dry hot air as will stil have some of the humidity that didn't get condensed and so will be reintroduced into the drum by making times even longer, if wet air was expelled outside these dryers would need two hoses one for hot warm air and one for cold air (if not they would be almost like an air conditioner producing cold air inside the home as they would need a radiator) and anyway would need a bigger "heat pump system". So I think these are good just for a little electric saving but not for the efficiency on drying so I can just guess that they would not be what most american would have even if they allow to save a little money, and then gas dryers as I said are way more efficient even about the costs of energy so they anyway would catch a small slice of the market, they would be too much long and unefficient about preformances at least compared, as I said, to the efficience on performances to which americans are used to since I know for experience that even the europeans vented dryers usually takes way more time to dry than american ones.
[this post was last edited: 8/3/2012-12:53]
Of course for the ones that does not have natural gas would be good about a little saving on electric bills, so anyway just a little electric efficiency, but let's don't talk about efficiency on drying as I personally know by living in italy and seing much of them around that they cannot reach the same heat temperatures that an electric element do and others things that I will mention later and so being efficient about performances, at least compared to the performances to which americans are used to, so they takes more time to dry of course than electric element heated dryer and of course gas ones, it is important to say that they will have to condense the water not expel the wet air as the system is that the decompressed and so cold gas allow wet air to condense water inside a condenser, which of course won't be able to condense all the wet present in hot warm air coming from the drum, so will not put in re-circulation dry hot air as will stil have some of the humidity that didn't get condensed and so will be reintroduced into the drum by making times even longer, if wet air was expelled outside these dryers would need two hoses one for hot warm air and one for cold air (if not they would be almost like an air conditioner producing cold air inside the home as they would need a radiator) and anyway would need a bigger "heat pump system". So I think these are good just for a little electric saving but not for the efficiency on drying so I can just guess that they would not be what most american would have even if they allow to save a little money, and then gas dryers as I said are way more efficient even about the costs of energy so they anyway would catch a small slice of the market, they would be too much long and unefficient about preformances at least compared, as I said, to the efficience on performances to which americans are used to since I know for experience that even the europeans vented dryers usually takes way more time to dry than american ones.
[this post was last edited: 8/3/2012-12:53]
I can't speak for the entire European market, but at least we here have no gas dryers - at all. Electric is the only alternative to line drying and electricity rates over here are steep. Heat-pump units are the best solution for us, I suppose. Switzerland has even outlawed traditional dryers (well, at least the sale of them) this past January.
A Miele dryer will, for example, dry 17 lbs. in a 4 cu.ft. drum in about two hours. I suppose US units could be faster, as they have a bigger drums for similar load sizes - since most people don't fully loads their washers. However, many people probably won't like the idea of additional filters to clean. Seems like dishwashers with filters is already a far stretch to most...
A Miele dryer will, for example, dry 17 lbs. in a 4 cu.ft. drum in about two hours. I suppose US units could be faster, as they have a bigger drums for similar load sizes - since most people don't fully loads their washers. However, many people probably won't like the idea of additional filters to clean. Seems like dishwashers with filters is already a far stretch to most...
Is that 17 lbs. wet or dry weight?
Dry.
dj-gabriele
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 1,685
My idea is that IF Americans will get heat pump dryers their power will be greater than their European counterpart like already happens.
A European dryer has an element ranging from 2 to 2,7 kW in power. An American one goes between 3,6 and 5,8 kW as I've seen.
European heat pump dryers have a heat pump of around 1 kW of electric power to have around the same drying speed of current condenser dryers, American ones could be getting units with compressor rated at 2 kW of electric power effectively rendering them twice as fast for the same load size.
Or they could dry at higher heat using a less efficient heat pump cycle but with faster drying times yet being better than the current American offering on the market.
Sure is that heat pump dryers can be connected even to 120V lines with little loss of performance!
As far as savings go, an efficient heat pump dryer will use only around 0,25 kWh per kg of wet clothes compared to a "reference" "B" class condenser dryer at 0,64 kWh or a "C" class vented at 0,67 kWh. So the savings will quickly accumulate over the lifetime of the machine repaying the cost difference in only a couple of year if used often!
A European dryer has an element ranging from 2 to 2,7 kW in power. An American one goes between 3,6 and 5,8 kW as I've seen.
European heat pump dryers have a heat pump of around 1 kW of electric power to have around the same drying speed of current condenser dryers, American ones could be getting units with compressor rated at 2 kW of electric power effectively rendering them twice as fast for the same load size.
Or they could dry at higher heat using a less efficient heat pump cycle but with faster drying times yet being better than the current American offering on the market.
Sure is that heat pump dryers can be connected even to 120V lines with little loss of performance!
As far as savings go, an efficient heat pump dryer will use only around 0,25 kWh per kg of wet clothes compared to a "reference" "B" class condenser dryer at 0,64 kWh or a "C" class vented at 0,67 kWh. So the savings will quickly accumulate over the lifetime of the machine repaying the cost difference in only a couple of year if used often!
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
dj Gabriele
You obviously do not know what you're talking about.....
Most of your speeches and ideas are so wrong for too many reasons trust me....
First of all Gas dryers which are maybe now the most types in US are way more energy efficient on costs of what you'd pay to run an heat pump, and this is FOR SURE.
But let's talk for who does not have a nat. gas availability....
Let's start with this:
"American ones could be getting units with compressor rated at 2 kW of electric power effectively rendering them twice as fast for the same load size" WHAT???
So you think it is just a matter of compressor and heat? You claim you can get more heat with a bigger compressor? Ehm, no it is not so! And I will say why to you later, it's true that the prerformances would be almost the same of electric element condenser ones though,then since you talk about twice of efficience for same load size I assume that you think americans could get the same size or capacities of EU models or always run in half load.... ehm.. this will never happend trust me. Of course americans would never get an average European dryer size (6kg) since most of americans would just rightly consider them kinda doll toys as I of course do, they're too small, and even the bigger EU models rated 9kgs got drums too little than american ones to be taken seriously! So americans of course would like getting the same capacity and size they are used to not the european Barbie sizes, and a 2kwh heat pump in this case should be the basis!
Anyway.....
They cannnot heat the same temperature of an element nor if you put a 6kwh heat pump! Heat pumps have their limits about heat production!
But it is not a matter of heat primarily
Rather it's the matter about condensing system that does not work or at least is not as efficient for the performance as vented drying! It takes really too long to dry than a vented system!
Gabriele, this one is probably the most non-sense:
"Or they could dry at higher heat using a less efficient heat pump cycle but with faster drying times yet being better than the current American offering on the market" WTH? How can you say this? Seriously hoping that you're talking about energy efficience, and seriously hoping ur talking of the current American offering about Heat pumps (Since few models of heat pump dryers are imported along with condenser ones and sold as "space saver" or compact dryers for people living in small apts. and where venting is not possible) But how can you claim this? Is not a matter of heat pump power primarily!
Have you ever tried an american electric "full size" dryer? Guess you never did if you speak so....
If you did I just wonder how can you say this at this point....
An average american electric or gas dryer dries a 700-800 rpm spinned 10kg load in about 30-40 mins at high heat, an european electric vented one usually dries a 5k 1hr(the better ones) and 1 hr and half or more the other less good, let's don't talk about condenser dryers nor heat pump ones! It is important to remind you of the fact that the average load for Europeans full size machines is just 6kgs (13 Lbs)! Not 10kg(22Lbs) and even more like full size american machines!
The heat pump ones that I've tried and seen till now are an AEG and A Rex Electrolux, they both dried a 1000 rpm 6 kg load in about 110 minuntes!!!
And the wife of a member of our company that bought one said hers takes more than 2hrs for a 900 rpm spinned full 7 kgs loads! She got an Hoover.....
Anyway, Gabriele.....It's clear you don't know what you're talking about....I think they would never get that much of a success in US unless for those that for a little saving on electric bill would renunce to performance on drying, It is also important to mention that if you use a 2kwh heat pump for 2 hrs you'd get the same electricity used for a 4 kwh electric element used in a vented one but for an hour (and as I said vented ones usually takes less than 1 hour to dry a full load).
So I don't even see that much of saving.....[this post was last edited: 8/5/2012-08:42]
You obviously do not know what you're talking about.....
Most of your speeches and ideas are so wrong for too many reasons trust me....
First of all Gas dryers which are maybe now the most types in US are way more energy efficient on costs of what you'd pay to run an heat pump, and this is FOR SURE.
But let's talk for who does not have a nat. gas availability....
Let's start with this:
"American ones could be getting units with compressor rated at 2 kW of electric power effectively rendering them twice as fast for the same load size" WHAT???
So you think it is just a matter of compressor and heat? You claim you can get more heat with a bigger compressor? Ehm, no it is not so! And I will say why to you later, it's true that the prerformances would be almost the same of electric element condenser ones though,then since you talk about twice of efficience for same load size I assume that you think americans could get the same size or capacities of EU models or always run in half load.... ehm.. this will never happend trust me. Of course americans would never get an average European dryer size (6kg) since most of americans would just rightly consider them kinda doll toys as I of course do, they're too small, and even the bigger EU models rated 9kgs got drums too little than american ones to be taken seriously! So americans of course would like getting the same capacity and size they are used to not the european Barbie sizes, and a 2kwh heat pump in this case should be the basis!
Anyway.....
They cannnot heat the same temperature of an element nor if you put a 6kwh heat pump! Heat pumps have their limits about heat production!
But it is not a matter of heat primarily
Rather it's the matter about condensing system that does not work or at least is not as efficient for the performance as vented drying! It takes really too long to dry than a vented system!
Gabriele, this one is probably the most non-sense:
"Or they could dry at higher heat using a less efficient heat pump cycle but with faster drying times yet being better than the current American offering on the market" WTH? How can you say this? Seriously hoping that you're talking about energy efficience, and seriously hoping ur talking of the current American offering about Heat pumps (Since few models of heat pump dryers are imported along with condenser ones and sold as "space saver" or compact dryers for people living in small apts. and where venting is not possible) But how can you claim this? Is not a matter of heat pump power primarily!
Have you ever tried an american electric "full size" dryer? Guess you never did if you speak so....
If you did I just wonder how can you say this at this point....
An average american electric or gas dryer dries a 700-800 rpm spinned 10kg load in about 30-40 mins at high heat, an european electric vented one usually dries a 5k 1hr(the better ones) and 1 hr and half or more the other less good, let's don't talk about condenser dryers nor heat pump ones! It is important to remind you of the fact that the average load for Europeans full size machines is just 6kgs (13 Lbs)! Not 10kg(22Lbs) and even more like full size american machines!
The heat pump ones that I've tried and seen till now are an AEG and A Rex Electrolux, they both dried a 1000 rpm 6 kg load in about 110 minuntes!!!
And the wife of a member of our company that bought one said hers takes more than 2hrs for a 900 rpm spinned full 7 kgs loads! She got an Hoover.....
Anyway, Gabriele.....It's clear you don't know what you're talking about....I think they would never get that much of a success in US unless for those that for a little saving on electric bill would renunce to performance on drying, It is also important to mention that if you use a 2kwh heat pump for 2 hrs you'd get the same electricity used for a 4 kwh electric element used in a vented one but for an hour (and as I said vented ones usually takes less than 1 hour to dry a full load).
So I don't even see that much of saving.....[this post was last edited: 8/5/2012-08:42]
dj-gabriele
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 1,685
Hey kid, stop offending, I'm an ENERGY ENGINEER and I kn
Now let me dismantle your points one by one.
Cit. "First of all Gas dryers which are maybe now the most types in US are way more energy efficient on costs of what you'd pay to run an heat pump, and this is FOR SURE."
Gas drying is not more efficient than heat pump plus it's a fossil fuel, heat pump can be run with electricity that could be generated from clean resources like nuclear or renewables. Total efficiency is better because gas adds humidity to the cycle and per each unit energy burned will dry for 2/3 of it as the hot air is already moist form the combustion. Heat pump will dry the air during the cycle and use only one unit of energy per 3-4 units of drying. (others degreed guys please forgive me for using "units" and not actual values but I want to be clear for everybody!)
You could check data sheets (ops, in the USA they don't list energy consumption of dryers!) and discover that a gas dryer uses 30% energy more than an equivalent electric one. A heat pump will use 1/4 of that, factoring in the production efficiency for electricity at an average of 40% the heat pump will use LESS primary energy than a gas dryer.
Cit. "Rather it's the matter about condensing system that does not work or at least is not as efficient for the performance as vented drying! It takes really too long to dry than a vented system!"
Commercial heat pump dryer in our laundy dryes stuff in the same time of the old vented one at around 25 minutes for a full 20 kg load while using 1/3 of the energy of the old one. Go figure if isn't as fast. The compressor is rated at some 5 kW of power.
"So you think it is just a matter of compressor and heat? You claim you can get more heat with a bigger compressor? Ehm, no it is not so! And I will say why to you later, it's true that the prerformances would be almost the same of electric element condenser ones though,then since you talk about twice of efficience for same load size I assume that you think americans could get the same size or capacities of EU models or always run in half load."
No, it's not simply a matter of big compressor but also of airflow. If I can move a big amount of heated air in the drying chamber clothes will dry faster, having a bigger compressor condensing moisture and re-heating the dehumidified air will effectively lower the drying time proportionally to the power used.
About size: I'm talking about weight of the load not volumes. Weight the average European 6 kg load and tell me if it's bigger or smaller than the average American "large volume" load and get back to me. We had this discussion in the forum millions of times already. You can have a drum of 6 cubic feet, 10 or whatever you want. As long as the power heating and airflow are sufficient you can have fast drying times.
Cit.
"Gabriele, this one is probably the most non-sense:
"Or they could dry at higher heat using a less efficient heat pump cycle but with faster drying times yet being better than the current American offering on the market" WTH? How can you say this? Seriously hoping that you're talking about energy efficience, and seriously hoping ur talking of the current American offering about Heat pumps (Since few models in specialized stores are imported from Europe) How can you claim this? Is not a matter of heat pump primarily!
Have you ever tried an american electric dryer? Guess you never did if you speak so...."
This is almost offending: you are the IGNORANT, I was exactly speaking of efficiency. If you make the hot side of the heat pump "hotter" and the cold side "colder" you will lower the efficiency of the cycle but will have a faster drying time because of the improved moisture removal of the higher temperature (more humidity can be taken from the hot air) and improved condensation.
Such a system will be more efficient than a simple vented or classic condenser dryer compared to the current offering. Consider that since American dryers are exempt from Energy classification they are generally less efficient than European dryers be them vented or condenser and terribly inefficient compared to heat pump ones.
Cit.
"Anyway, Gabriele.....It's clear you don't know what you're talking about....I think they would never get that much of a success in US unless for those that for a little saving on electric bill would renunce to performance on drying, It is also important to mention that if you use a 2kwh heat pump for 2 hrs you'd get the same electricity used for a 4 kwh electric element used in a vented one but for an hour (and as I said vented ones usually takes less than 1 hour to dry a full load).
So I don't even see that much of saving....."
Yes, you're utterly ignorant and stupid. You should wash you mouth with soap and vinegar before attempting to answer me back.
It's not numbers I'm inventing, you could try yourself putting a power meter on a classic electric dryer (choose your style, American and European) and a heat pump one, you'd be amazed at how different will be the electric consumption of them!
But please weight the load before and after the drying to have an objective ratio of water evaporated/energy used.
Now let me dismantle your points one by one.
Cit. "First of all Gas dryers which are maybe now the most types in US are way more energy efficient on costs of what you'd pay to run an heat pump, and this is FOR SURE."
Gas drying is not more efficient than heat pump plus it's a fossil fuel, heat pump can be run with electricity that could be generated from clean resources like nuclear or renewables. Total efficiency is better because gas adds humidity to the cycle and per each unit energy burned will dry for 2/3 of it as the hot air is already moist form the combustion. Heat pump will dry the air during the cycle and use only one unit of energy per 3-4 units of drying. (others degreed guys please forgive me for using "units" and not actual values but I want to be clear for everybody!)
You could check data sheets (ops, in the USA they don't list energy consumption of dryers!) and discover that a gas dryer uses 30% energy more than an equivalent electric one. A heat pump will use 1/4 of that, factoring in the production efficiency for electricity at an average of 40% the heat pump will use LESS primary energy than a gas dryer.
Cit. "Rather it's the matter about condensing system that does not work or at least is not as efficient for the performance as vented drying! It takes really too long to dry than a vented system!"
Commercial heat pump dryer in our laundy dryes stuff in the same time of the old vented one at around 25 minutes for a full 20 kg load while using 1/3 of the energy of the old one. Go figure if isn't as fast. The compressor is rated at some 5 kW of power.
"So you think it is just a matter of compressor and heat? You claim you can get more heat with a bigger compressor? Ehm, no it is not so! And I will say why to you later, it's true that the prerformances would be almost the same of electric element condenser ones though,then since you talk about twice of efficience for same load size I assume that you think americans could get the same size or capacities of EU models or always run in half load."
No, it's not simply a matter of big compressor but also of airflow. If I can move a big amount of heated air in the drying chamber clothes will dry faster, having a bigger compressor condensing moisture and re-heating the dehumidified air will effectively lower the drying time proportionally to the power used.
About size: I'm talking about weight of the load not volumes. Weight the average European 6 kg load and tell me if it's bigger or smaller than the average American "large volume" load and get back to me. We had this discussion in the forum millions of times already. You can have a drum of 6 cubic feet, 10 or whatever you want. As long as the power heating and airflow are sufficient you can have fast drying times.
Cit.
"Gabriele, this one is probably the most non-sense:
"Or they could dry at higher heat using a less efficient heat pump cycle but with faster drying times yet being better than the current American offering on the market" WTH? How can you say this? Seriously hoping that you're talking about energy efficience, and seriously hoping ur talking of the current American offering about Heat pumps (Since few models in specialized stores are imported from Europe) How can you claim this? Is not a matter of heat pump primarily!
Have you ever tried an american electric dryer? Guess you never did if you speak so...."
This is almost offending: you are the IGNORANT, I was exactly speaking of efficiency. If you make the hot side of the heat pump "hotter" and the cold side "colder" you will lower the efficiency of the cycle but will have a faster drying time because of the improved moisture removal of the higher temperature (more humidity can be taken from the hot air) and improved condensation.
Such a system will be more efficient than a simple vented or classic condenser dryer compared to the current offering. Consider that since American dryers are exempt from Energy classification they are generally less efficient than European dryers be them vented or condenser and terribly inefficient compared to heat pump ones.
Cit.
"Anyway, Gabriele.....It's clear you don't know what you're talking about....I think they would never get that much of a success in US unless for those that for a little saving on electric bill would renunce to performance on drying, It is also important to mention that if you use a 2kwh heat pump for 2 hrs you'd get the same electricity used for a 4 kwh electric element used in a vented one but for an hour (and as I said vented ones usually takes less than 1 hour to dry a full load).
So I don't even see that much of saving....."
Yes, you're utterly ignorant and stupid. You should wash you mouth with soap and vinegar before attempting to answer me back.
It's not numbers I'm inventing, you could try yourself putting a power meter on a classic electric dryer (choose your style, American and European) and a heat pump one, you'd be amazed at how different will be the electric consumption of them!
But please weight the load before and after the drying to have an objective ratio of water evaporated/energy used.
