Sour smelling laundry...

[ronhic]

Here we go folks, one for the brains trust.....

 

I've been battling with laundry that dries, either naturally or mechanically, that eventually ends up with a distinct 'sour' smell - think a cross between mould and 'wet dog'. This can occur over a very short time, such as happened last night whilst a track top was drying on an airer, or when you go to put something on that has been folded and stored in drawers or on a shelf.

 

This has been going on now for about 12 months to a greater or lesser degree, but certainly appears to be worse as we turn our heating off and things drying inside take longer without the air movement (young dogs and clothes on lines are not a good mix!). Everything does, however, dry in under 24 hours.

 

I've tried just about everything to both remove the odour and prevent it from occurring again:

 

- prewashed with napisan oxygen bleach, followed by normal wash

- short, full cycle (30min) with nothing by CL bleach...then a normal cycle

- line dried outside

- tumble dried

 

All have had very limited success, though yesterdays washing was by far the quickest occurrence of odour.

 

I traditionally use Levers detergents - OMO, Drive or Surf, though have had this occur with Aldi detergent too.

 

So, this was done with OMO for front loaders....the track top that my partner put on this evening to go out and water the garden in, literally stank...yet it was washed at 40c, full load and long cycle (1:57).

 

There was no fabric conditioner and we do have relatively soft water. Washing was dosed with a standard 'scoop' dose.

 

Could I be right in thinking that the alkaline nature of the wash may not have been fully neutralised by the final rinse and that I may need to introduce a small amount of 'sour' into the final rinse, such as 1/4 cup white vinegar?

 

 

[yogitunes]

I have seen this happen....and not to jump to conclusions, but has fallen for me in the past as not enough detergent, water not warm or hot enough, and a dirty machine, even transferring odors from a previous load....

most times you can smell it in towels, not once dried, but once they get damp again, everything surfaces....this can happen in clothing as well....especially shirts, its like the BO and deodorants aren't washed away....

the smell reminds me of a mustly machine, like the clothes have been sitting in there after a load for a few days.....

if I hav left clothes in a mahcine and forget them, to get rid of the odor and problems with the clothes smelling, especially colors, is wash them with lemon ammonia seems to work best....1/2 to 1 cup in the wash with regular detergent....

can't hurt, try and see how you make out....theres always a chance too of water conditions, I know when my system for the PH runs out of chemical, all scents of any type are gone, even bleach, yet the odors linger on!

 

[washer111]

Oooh! A Tough one!

Have to admit this one seems pretty difficult. I will bullet point my ideas:

<ul>
<li>Try using less detergent an additional rinse or both (maybe neutralises the detergent better?)</li>
<li>Consider using hotter wash temperatures & check for a difference (I know, preaching, but we had a somewhat similar experience with our old Simpson TL and cold-water)</li>
<li>Check your washer for mould (Detergent drawer, door boot, etc.)</li>
</ul>
Have to ask if you've changed washers at all or if this has started to develop during the last 12 months. If its the latter, then I would DEFINITELY consider running the machine on at least 60º with some old towels/rags with some bleach (Pre-Wash/Main-Wash + Extra Rinses). Use Vinegar as "Fabric Softener" for the final rinse. Following completion of the cycle, remove the detergent drawer and clean it thoroughly (dry it, scrub it, whatever). Then scrub the door-boot and dry it. Following all of that, drain your pump-sump if at all possible and see if there is any trace of algae or mould. Captain Obvious would also like to point out that you should leave your detergent drawer/door ajar between cycles to allow circular airflow through the machine. 

 

Hope this helps!

 

[stan]

Sounds

like there is something with the machine!
I'm guessing that it's a F.L machine, and have no idea how you'd clean out between the two drums.
I friend of mine was having this problem with a standard T.L .
She was able to fill her machine with hot water and soak over night and used 2 cups of washing soda to break loose the muck. This helped, but still wasn't enough.
We ended up pulling the Cabinet off, so we could see between the inner, and out tub, and found the problem. I was able to get my hand between the two tubs and dig out the muck. ( she was a liquid detergent user) we used rags, yard stick, coat hangers, you name it, but got it clean. Put the cabinet back on, filled with hot water and the washing soda again, soaked for another hour, then allowed the machine to go threw its normal cycle.
Smell was gone.
Martian may be on to something with using ammonia. Maybe a cup or two, hot water will clean that baby out.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Chris, try this, works for everyone I suggested so far (supposing you're using a self heating front loader!)

Get some citric acid (yup, that for limescale!) do two washes with 150 grams each of it at 90/95°C, no prewash of course.
Clean the top and sides of the drawer cavity with bleach, check filter and drain hose.
Do a full cycle with a good dose of chlorine bleach at again 90°C and a warm water cycle again with citric acid, to neutralize any leftover bleach.
That will deep clean the washing machine so we get rid of one possible smell source.

As for the clothing get yourself some pharmacy-grade disinfectant (napisan is pretty much useless! sorry can't suggest you one because of the different market) and liquid concentrated colour-safe bleach.
Using both items in the same wash, along a full dose of detergent rewash TWICE the foul garments in the hottest water they can stand (coloured cotton 60°C, whites at 90°C, same as when you might get lice)
When done run an additional complete rinse cycle with 100 ml of 20% citric acid solution to get rid of all the chemicals and neutralize any left over alcalinity.
Do not use fabric softener.

Voilà, no more smelly garments! I'm 100% positive that this will work perfectly as did many times! (Even on my boyfriend's microfiber boathrobe that really was rancid!)

 

[yogitunes]

well, if were on to cleaning machines....

get some sort of bathroom spray cleaner, with bleach, and spray all areas inside the dispensers port, and tub boot.....

depending on the season, but if you can find the powder chlorine for swimming pools...this is mega powerful....try a cup or two, maybe even more, to a full cycle with the hottest water possible....

this has wiped out some of the filthy, black, moldy, mildew, muck I have come across in one use....

dishwasher powder can do the same.....as well as PurpleCleaner

let us know how you make out....

 

[ronhic]

Launderess - HELP!

Folks, thanks for the ideas, but let me clarify a few things.....

 

- the machine is 7 years old

- the door boot is spotless

- the detergent drawer is spotless

- the door is NEVER closed unless the machine is washing

- at least one load a week is washed at 60c

- always powdered detergent used

- there is no odour whatsoever in the machine either just after washing or if it has sat for weeks when we've been away

 

As mentioned, I have tried many things including running dishwasher detergent through last time this occurred 'just in case'.

 

Quite simply, it isn't a bacterial problem with the machine.

 

My concern is that the alkalinity of the wash isn't being sufficiently neutralized by the rinses, particularly on full loads, and that this, in conjunction with slower indoor drying (note dog comment above) could be the cause of my occasionally horrible smelling laundry?

 

[iheartmaytag]

Skipping the washer all together

What does your water smell like. I know that in parts of the US we occasionally get Sulfer in the ground water that can give the rotten egg smell. And our water that comes from the resivour sometimes gets alge blooms where the water smells like pee.

Could there be some component in your water that is being intensified when the clothing that is washed in it and then dried more or less concentrating it in the clothing? If the water smells fine for drinking and cooking, try leaving a glass full of water out for a few days and see if anything develops smell wise.

 

[ronhic]

Harley

Water here is treated - disinfected etc prior to distribution to ensure it is safe to drink, just as it is in most of the western world

 

As an indicator of how good our water is, if the safe level of a given chemical is, say, 50mg/l....our guidelines stipulate that there should be no more than 10% of that level present when tested.

 

There's no odour at all in our water at all.

 

 

 

[dj-gabriele]

alkalinity of the wash isn't being sufficiently neutrali

That's why I suggested a double rinse cycle with a 20% solution of citric acid!
And you'll be amazed what can come out of even a well maintained washing machine if you run a deep descaler cycle in it!
Take my word for it and try yourself, you'll have water that will be yellowish by the end of the cycle.

The second step will eradicate the odour on the clothes regardless of the source because of the deodourizing proprieties of both the oxi-bleach, disinfectant and improved rinsing, plus the neutralization of the citric acid.
If you were near here I'd send you a sample of the products we use at the laundry to remove the odours...

 

[ronhic]

Gabriele

So the easiest acid that I have to hand is white vinegar.

 

Would a 1/4 cup in the final rinse be a good place to start, though I acknowledge it is very mild....

 

[danemodsandy]

Water Smell:

This may be a little hard to accept, but there is a small possibility that your water has a smell you're so accustomed to you're not smelling it any more.

When I moved from Atlanta, GA to Waterloo IA, the water here in Waterloo had a very distinct taste and smell. Not unacceptable, but it was definitely there.

Now I do not smell or taste it, because four years here have accustomed me to it.

As I said, it's a small possibility.

 

[dj-gabriele]

I would avoid that, acetic acid might be corrosive to some metals (like aluminum, the spider) if I recall correctly and has a lower descaling power.
Plus it smells like no other stuff citric acid on the other had is both not harmful to the washer (and you!) and has no odour whatsoever (but you'll discover the bad bad smell of the stuff it will dissolve as soon as the water is well into heating phase, also why I suggested multiple cycles to deep clean the machine!)

Here in Italy you can get a 1 kg bag for around 5€+shipping (anhydrous or mono-hydrate is the same in the end...) I guess price over there is the same, so it's a very cheap trick, also most pharmacies sell it!

 

[ronhic]

Ok, will try and get some today and see how we go.

 

I'm assuming that 100ml of a 20% solution would be 20gm dissolved in 80ml water?

 

[dj-gabriele]

20% solution

20 g of citric acid in 100 ml.
If you don't mind the lack of smell it will replace fabric softener indefinitely!

For descaling 150 g in the detergent drawer, no dilution needed. (go figure, cold water can dissolve up to 1,4 kg of acid per litre of water!!!

 

[chestermikeuk]

Extraction

Hi Chris, whats your washer in use now, how fast is the interim spin and whats the final spin speed?

I would do a hot wash, with vinegar rinse and try max fast interim spin and a max final extract, sometimes stuff just needs max spin to get rid of all the old residue, or a few (3) single rinse and fast spin routines!!

One other thought, I had the same thing using Ariel colour powder, it just smelt "damp" unless an occasional 60d wash temp and fast spin extract was used!!

 

[ronhic]

Mike

It ultimately depends on if it is a quick cycle or not, but the interim spins are either 900rpm or 1200rpm. Maximum is 1200rpm.

 

It's a Zanussi based machine, pretty much identical to those supplied under the John Lewis label a few years ago.

 

[chestermikeuk]

Do you have access to a separate spin x or spin dryer, still think it might be this little bit of old residue left - its worked for me when I`ve had the same issue and all else has failed etc...

Cheers, Mike

 

[brisnat81]

Try a cup of ammonia in the main wash.

I use it for anything I wear close to my skin, or anything the dog sleeps on. It seems to do a great job of breaking down the body oils that don't seem to dissolve even at 40degC.

Is it only darks that have the problem, or whites as well?

 

[MrX]

There may be bacteria present in the fabric that isn't being removed by the usual wash cycle and detergent.

This can happen if clothes are allowed to go sour. Then the bacteria keeps regrowing when they're wet.

Wash them with a fabric safe disinfectant such as Dettol laundry sanitiser or the scented varieties of dettol.

Also consider changing to a powder detergent for a few washes. (a top of the line version... The budget versions often lack some of the more sophisticated ingredients)

Run your machine at 40°C rather than cold. Honestly, you're not saving very much energy on cold washes.

Then make sure the clothes are fully dry and aired out. Any dampness can cause this problem.

What detergent are you using?
I'm sure our Aussi posters could advise on the most effective options.[this post was last edited: 10/28/2013-17:48]

 

[ronhic]

MRX

How on earth did you conclude that I used liquids and washed in cold water?

- I use OMO powder, which is our 'Persil'...in fact the same product is badged Persil in NZ.
- I NEVER use liquids
- I NEVER use fabric conditioners
- Washing is always hung up or tumble dried promptly
- I do NOT COLD WASH
- It is RARE that I wash at 30c
- MAJORITY of washing is done at 40c
- At LEAST one load a week at 60c

 

[ronhic]

Nathan

It's indiscriminate.

It can appear in anything from heavy track material to close woven trousers to business shirts.

I'm ringing Levers today to see what they say.

 

[ronhic]

...and they said nothing of particular consequence.

However, they did elude to there being:

'known issues with the mix of enzymes in their powder that could cause residual odour'

I've to send them a sample when they send my refund.[this post was last edited: 10/28/2013-23:35]

 

[stan]

Chris

You'll figure out what the cause is! And how to solve the problem. When you do let us know what worked!
You might wash a few things by hand... Just to make sure the machine is the problem.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Water was just a suggestion.

Hope you find your problem.

 

[rapunzel]

I'd definitely go with the cloudy ammonia suggestion. If that doesn't help then maybe the fabric is tainted beyond fix. Put on a nice colone with your sweat shirt and the sour smell will not be so obvious.

 

[petek]

We have an older GE Filter Flo... .wonderful machine. For the longest time whenever my partner did his laundry the residual smell after going thru the dryer was foul. Sweaty jockstraps smell better.. and this was his day to day clothing. My wash however smelled wonderful, no smell at all because I dno't use fabric softeners or smelly detergents. It was all because he overloaded the machine so much there wasn't much room for any water. So either you maybe overloading your machine or it's water sensor isn't putting in enough ?

 

[ronhic]

Harley

...and a perfectly valid one too.

 

[MrX]

Well, the 'sour' smell is almost always created by bacterial / yeast growth. So, it's possible that something is being re-washed and just reactivating the bacteria.

60ºC won't kill it in the machine either as parts of the drum won't get anywhere near that temperature. In fact they'll just get a nice damp steamy environment that encourages bacteria to grow.

If your machine has a boil-wash option, select it and run it with 2 bath towels and a good dose of oxygen-bleach detergent.

It's a little like making sour-dough bread, all it takes is one or two items with live bugs on them and it will keep spreading much like the dough starter.

If you're in a hard water area, make sure you descale the machine. The easiest way is with citric acid or distilled vinegar i.e. the same way you'd descale a coffee machine.

Citric acid is probably a nicer option as it smells like lemons where as vinegar has other components that won't necessarily make your laundry smell all that nice.
There are a few proprietary machine cleaning products out there too which can help too.

One solution we found worked on a very gunked up machine was dishwasher powder. Couple of 95ºC cycles and it cleared up everything.
You do need to include a couple of sacrificial towels though as they will cause water to splash around the drum and coat the outer drum.

 

[mrboilwash]

I know I`m going to get bashed for it but that is exactly why I love my boil washes so much.
Bad smells in laundry is usually a hygienical problem, but apart from germs an (invisible) build up of sebum and sweat could be another reason.
Remember soil removing (sebum and dead skin flakes) is often more difficult for detergents than stain removing (grass, lipstick and so on).

If your clothes can`t take very high temperatures I would try to increase the amount of detergent and stay away from short cycles. Liquid oxygen bleaches have proven to be good deodorizers for me whilst being gentler to colours than traditional powders that contain bleach. The failure of Napisan in the prewash means probably the contact time wasn`t long enough.

In my opinion the damage to clothes from very long cycles, exagerated temperatures and oxygen bleaches is still better than throwing things away because of odors that cannot be removed.