Speed Queen TR7 with a transmission!

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Some people still use top loaders

One great example is my mom, she uses one because her back doesn’t really allow her to bend awkwardly, and she feels it’s much easier for her to use a Toploader Because she can easily grab things out from the bottom with a pair of tongs and she always finds it awkward When she has used a front loader, ask me how, plus it’s also a personal choice as well as people who have a Toploader generally want to stick to what they know
 


I thinks it's strange to live in a disposable society that pretends to care about conservation.

 

I still laugh about that to this day. The people that used to give me crap about having and using the same old stuff/same old vehicles/same old clothes forever were the ones that always preached the green religion while constantly buying and trashing everything they owned because "New" and "Shiny" enticed them or they simply didn't take care of their stuff.....usually a combination of both. They were also the same ones that always complained about never having enough money or being in debt.
 
Lighter build, doesnt have to mean lower quality. The traditional style TL machines ended production here for the most part by the mid 80's. Simpson, Westinghouse, FisherPaykel, Hoover all of which had traditionally designed machines, moved to top suspension, pressed steel cabinets with plastic or plastic and metal tops.

These machines were good performers, lasted for 10-20 years and were easily repairable.

Its not about weight, its about design and quality of components.
 
In my experience, weight far more often than not is an indication of the quality of the product and it's likely longevity, whether it's machines, power supplies, etc. I don't think it's an accident Speed Queen weighs around 50 lbs more than a Maytag, and is likely to last much longer.

Manufacturers love light weight stuff. Plastic is cheap, but not at all likely to be more durable than heavier materials, like steel, in most applications. Yes, plastic tubs or such may last, but not so much for plastic actuators, splines, etc.
Most companies will use cheaper, lighter, materials if possible. Yet if two similar machines weigh significantly different, you can almost bet on it that the heavier machine uses more quality parts.

People today seem to have come to expect mediocre products, and accept planned obsolescence is normal. I guess maybe I've come from a time I expected more from products. I bought a cheap Hotpoint washer that lasted me for well over 20 years until the hub rotted. I thought I could just go to Home Depot or somewhere and buy another cheap machine that would last for decades. I found out that machines were very hard to get during the covid panic, and I ended up getting one of the first ones I could. I thought Maytag was a good brand. I found out things sure had changed, Maytag was far worse in quality than the cheap machines of a couple decades ago. Not only do I find that sad, I also find it sad that people think that's acceptable. They really don't make things like they used to.

It may not be all the manufacturer's fault. Dan seems to have gotten my point, people like new and shiny things every few years whether their old ones are still completely adequate or not, so what incentive do the manufacturers have to make things that actually last? But then, I guess there are enough other people that think like me that companies like Speed Queen should be doing well.
 
In my experience, weight far more often than not is an indic

Not always. I'm not sure how it is today, but about 20-ish years ago some manufactures (I think Whirlpool kicked it off) were building stupid heavy weighted washer lids, giving sort of a false reality that the machine was more solid built than it really was. The somewhat flimsy lids on Maytags has always worked just fine for me. The heavy duty part of those 225 pounds of goodness was in the cabinet, tubs, and driveline...where it really mattered.
 
Louis is right. The term is offensive.

 

It is also offensive to people who actually give a damn if the planet is still inhabitable in 100 years - comparing us to Nazis is childish and ignorant.

 

Plastic isn't the enemy and light weight isn't the enemy. Here is what I think is going on... People who have no experience of materials engineering seek a simple way to distinguish quality from junk. They bang a side panel and if it seems tinny they assume the whole machine is junk. They look at a tub and if it is plastic, they assume is is cheaply made. Weight becomes a fools guide to quality.

 

Here in Australia and New Zealand, we have fairly high wages by world standards, and good working conditions. Labour is a high proportion of manufacturing costs. In the 1980s when Japanese washing machines were becoming popular, the local companies had to cut costs to keep selling machines. They basically produced an Aussie machine that was similar to the Japanese machines, saving weight where they could, cutting costs where they could, but still with a view to quality - materials engineers and metallurgists working out which metal or which grade of plastic would still be reliable for each component. This "new" generation of machines was very successful, buyers  and repairers were skeptical but the machines have proven themselves over decades. They certainly wash better, spin faster and last longer than the heavily built machines they replaced. These models, with incremental changes over time, are more or less still in production, though unfortunately the Australian companies were bought out by international giants who moved production to Thailand to further cut costs, and closed the Aussie factories.

 

Fisher and Paykel did a similar thing in New Zealand, replacing a heavily built UK design made under license with their own "clean sheet of paper design" which was very light weight, with tinny sides and light weight plastic top and lid, plastic outer tub, but superbly engineered. I still own a Fisher and Paykel top loader from about 1990 which has had only two repairs in all that time - a rubber drain hose and a water fill valve. These components are the exact same as those used on big heavy top loaders. It is not a museum piece - it is still used most days, it was used by my parents until they went to aged care, then it went to wash for friends of mine. It is proof that the right grade of plastic or nylon, and the appropriate use of light weight sheet steel, is every bit as durable as old fashioned washing machines that weigh more than twice as much. All those extra unnecessary grams/ounces have to be paid for, they force prices up. Plastic doesn't rust, too. Fisher and Paykel used to advertise the mechanical simplicity of their Smart Drive machines with the line "if a component isn't there, it can't fail." (No belts, no transmission, etc.) I would add "and it doesn't have to be paid for, either."

 

I once bought a new box trailer to tow behind my car. It was heavily built and looked solid, but all mild steel, it rusted out in 4 years as it was poor quality steel and poorly painted. When I was replacing it, it was so badly rusted it was falling to pieces on its last trip to be traded in on a new one. I had to stop at a hardware store and buy some screws to hold it together for its final journey. I replaced it with a lightweight galvanized sheetmetal trailer, an Erde trailer from France, which has now had well over 20 years of hard use and is still exactly as good as new, no deterioration at all. It probably weighs half the old trailer, which makes it light and easy to tow, too. It is a prime example that clever design and appropriate choice of materials is better than dinosaur engineering.

 

Unfortunately many modern machines are genuinely cheap rubbish, lightly built from inappropriate materials, cheapened up in companies where bean counters rule over engineers, or made in cheap-labour countries by manufacturers that copied a quality product without understanding the engineering behind each component, so it looks the same but works really poorly and fails quickly. But that is a product of poor engineering, not light weight and using plastics.
 
Yes, some components can be made lighter and cheaper. I've already said that.

If you think that you can't tell the quality of a machine to some extent by inspecting it and looking at how it's made, well, call me a fool, but that's not my experience.

Toyotas years ago were known for being exceptionally made vehicles. I have an '83 and an '87 Toyota Pickup. Small parts, like clips, on the '83 are metal, on the '87 they used plastic. No problems with the '83. On the '87 I've had door and tailgate latches break and had to take the door apart to wire it up, and had to replace the tailgate latch, the clip that holds the hood support on the '87 has long since broken, etc.

I'm sure Toyota had engineers telling them that the plastic parts are just as good, and it's possible not many people would keep a truck long enough to know they're not before they trade it in and go buy another Toyota. They only ones who might know are fools like me who actually keep and repair things as long as practical.
 
BTW Jeremy, not to put words in your mouth, but I assume "fascist" is probably the word you were looking for. People tend to get the words confused and one of them I think is particularly offensive, but I trust that's not exactly the way you meant it.
 


On the '87 I've had door and tailgate latches break and had to take the door apart to wire it up, and had to replace the tailgate latch, the clip that holds the hood support on the '87 has long since broken, etc.

 

The tailgate latch and hood support clip on my '84 broke about the same time in 2016. 32 years was a good run both of them and they're still available. Haven't needed a door latch, yet. By the way, the hood rod support clip is part# 53452-90351.
 
Thanks Dan. They must have switched to plastic between '83 and '84. I hadn't worried about the hood support too much because it seems to slip nicely between the side of the clip that's still there and the upper radiator support, or whatever's there, without rattling around or damaging anything, though I think the grommet that holds it on the other end is gone too, but it still works. But it reminds me, I think I'm missing or broke clips that hold the grill on too that I've wired up somehow. Eventually maybe I'll have to order a bunch of clips for various trim and such.

Thanks for getting me started with the part number.
 
Toyota started using more plastic with the 84-88 generation trucks (84-89 4 Runners). They still hold up very well though.

 

I have the factory microfiche slides for 84-95 Toyota trucks, let me know what you need. You can look most of it up here:

 

 
Two things.

 

With all due respect to Adam's mom, after we bought our first FL set (2007 full size Duet HT), and even though they were on pedestals, a friend said he'd never own a FL washer because he didn't like having to bend over to load and unload.  Then I asked him how he loads and unloads his dryer . . .

 

As for weight equating to durability, remember when everybody had to rent their (landline) phones instead of owning them outright?  The phones were heavy and built like tanks to take abuse and misuse and still last for decades, and the monthly rental charge was nominal.  If the sets did develop problems, The Phone Company came out and either repaired or replaced them for free, and nine times out of ten, the phone they took back was inspected, repaired, cleaned and redeployed.  It wasn't until subscribers were allowed to purchase their own phones from a wide range of alternative manufacturers that standards were lowered and the sets became flimsy.

 

I wonder how many people would opt for this same rental and free maintenance system with exceptionally sturdy, durable washers and dryers if it were available.  I'm not suggesting that such a business model would ever pencil out, because of all major home appliances, nothing works itself to death quite like a clothes washer.  But the phone example supports the argument that heavy, over-engineered, bullet-proof build quality and longevity tend to go hand in hand.

 

 
 
More Water? Better Results?

This is the reason I will never use a TL Washer. When I see all the water its draining.. It makes me upset. Thinking the natural resources and the planet we live in, it goes against my beliefs to use a TL.
Also I don't know if the Short TL cycles actually clean and Rinse. Look at this new trend of "Laundry Stripping". People finally realize that their clothes has a huge buildup of stains oils and detergent from the short cycles of Cold water.

I grew up with the mentality that the machine needs its time to wash clothes properly.
I've seen excellent results with heavily soiled clothes on my Miele and LG, without wasting all this water.
Its like those people I see on Instagram Reels using 100 gallons of running water just to Wash 2 dishes.
 
Water usage

My TR5 has an Auto Fill setting which uses technology to supply the best amount of water for maximum cleaning potential. I use that setting all the time now and I haven’t had a load that I haven’t been happy with the results. If it was left up to me to choose the water level, I’m convinced I’d be using significantly more water!
 

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