Spokane residents smuggling "good" dishwasher detergents in from out of state

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Among other states that have banned or are banning phosphates in dishwasher detergent are Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Vermont, Minnesota, Illinois, Massachusetts and New York. A bill on Capitol Hill would impose a nationwide ban.
 
I wonder if phosphates will no longer be available through the Chemistry Store and such? If they will still be available, then we can just as easily add some phosphates to the detergent!
 
I have a friend that lives in Spokane, he was telling me about this. Suddenly his vintage KDA wasn't doing a good job. Then he heard about the change in the detergent. Lucky they aren't far from Idaho so he just goes across the state line and buys now. Crazy isn't it.
 
Chemistry Store

Along with others cannot be stopped from selling a product if it is legal. Most bans for laundry and soon dishwasher detergents ban the sale of such products that contain "x" amount of phosphates.

What could happen however is a state or states ganging upon suppliers of phosphates if they find it being sold to residents.

Commercial detergent makers such as Ecolab did not distribute nor sell phosphate containing versions of their detergents where it was restricted or banned. Often it would state clearly on the package "Not For Sale In New York" or some other state.

However the commercial detergent market is rather small and distribution can be tightly controlled, (just try purchasing Ecolab products without being approved). Without a national ban residents will simply purchase what they want out of state and bring it back, and or have the same shipped.

Still, it might be worth while to start laying in a supply just in case.

L.
 
Government intrusion in our personal lives.....

"Among other states that have banned or are banning phosphates in dishwasher detergent are Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Vermont, Minnesota, Illinois, Massachusetts and New York. A bill on Capitol Hill would impose a nationwide ban".

Take notice that every one of those states mentioned, are "blue" , or Democratic states won by Obama in the Presidential election, with the exception of Vermont and Minnesota, who have GOP governors.
I would also think that with all of the other problems facing our nation, The "Demo" controlled congress would focus on those matters before taking up such an unimportant matter such as banning phosphates.

But never fear, I predict that Demo congress will self destruct, and the GOP will see signifigant gains in both chambers of Congress. I just hope it is enough to send "do nothing" Pelosi, and "Dim wit" Reid packing.

Viva Phosphates!!
 
Thanks for the info, I will need to see check the ingredient list of my dishwasher soap to see if soap in PA still has phosphates, it seems like we have been having lack luster dishwasher performance.
If not it is only a 12 mile drive to West Virginia or about 20 to cross the river to Ohio so it will be easy for me to still have good soap.

Sam
 
Wow, after reading that article makes me realize even mor how crazy and rediculous this going green crap is. I for one DO NOT CARE about conserving or anything of the like, I drive a big gas guzzling luxury land yaht, I do not recycle, I like older less energy efficient appliances, I do as I wish with my water, it is free and comes from a well since we are in a very rural area, and I am Hell bent on using dishwasher detergent with phosphates no matter what the state of PA says, it isn't harming anything, we have a septic tank, so it dosen't matter. I am glad i am so close to the state line andI will be stocking up so I am more prepared if this becomes a nation wide ban.

This whole thing to me is as rediculous as the bans that some states had on oleo(margarine) in the past, A poor waste of time for our politicians which whom we pay their salaries to be doing instead of focusing on important issues.

Sam
 
sudsshane

A bill on Capitol Hill would impose a nationwide ban

I'll take any perceived federal ban on phosphates over the state of the economy and tarnished foreign perception of the US that the f**king Idiot Bush left us with! Let's look at priorities here.

As far as having other things to do, they have to work on something when the f**king idiot Republicans are stalling PROGRESS (don't know for a fact that they are in this case, but their record speaks for themselves)!

Not meant as a flame at all. I'm just sick of hearing criticism of someone who inherited a GREAT BIG MESS from an incompetent monkey (apologies to monkey's everywhere). He's been in office barely more than 2 months. Come on!!!!

Wish Bill would run again!!!!!!!!!

Chuck
 
Maybe these "geniuses" should have found a "green" alternative that would match the cleaning ability of phosphates BEFORE the banning.

I'm surprised California hasn't adopted this law. Usually the morons in charge of this state like to be the first to enact idiotic laws and rules before researching first, thinking long term/short term impact, or even coming up with a realistic approach of solving an issue BEFORE implementing laws/rules/changes.
 
I for one DO NOT CARE about conserving or anything of the li

And as far as "going green" goes, we've recently begun having a separate trash barrel in the garage for "co-mingle" (foil, plastic, glass). Each week, we seem to fill a 13 gallon kitchen trash bag. This is not only stuff that's not going into the landfill (forever) or the incinerator (toxic), but our town doesn't pay to have it picked up and recycled. In my crazy mind, that means it might be helping to keep our taxes down, or at least the cost of our dump stickers from going up!

I really didn't give a damn before. Now that I can equate it to my wallet (self-admittedly, that's sad), it makes a difference.

Chuck
 
Chuck,

I agree completely with what you had to say and i too feel there is a hell of a huge mess to be cleaned up after 8 years of absolute incompetence and it cant be cleaned up overnight, afterall it took 8 years to make the mess.

I am a firm believer in the thought that Stupidity is an incurable and highly contagious disease just take a look around at the people surrounding you in public and you will see what you mean. It is a surprise that there isn't more incompetence after the last 8 years. Maybe that is why banning phosphates is such a priority.there are better petty issues that can be handled while progress is being stalled.

I also wish Bill could run again, it is also nice to see that someone else has the same view on this as I do.

Sam
 
We do not have recycling in our area,it is enough to have all of our garbage picked up each week. and as for paper and cardboard I save it for packing material and for starting fires in the winter, Also in our area most people have burning pits and we burn our burnable garbage.
 
I also wish Bill could run again,

Well, he CAN! Why he doesn't, I don't know. Maybe Hillary didn't give him permission (I'll take Obama, but still wish Hillary had won)?!!

Just heard Fleetwood Mac, "Don't Stop," on the radio today, and the DJ mentioned that it felt like it was 1992 again, when Bill chose that song for his campaign. Made me think about how well we were doing, and how much I never even bothered to think about what the government was doing, when he was in.

Damn.

Chuck
 
Chuck~

I am in full agreement with you regarding Bush.

Trust me, many Moderate, to liberal Republicans I know are ashamed to be associated with him. I never voted for him, therefore I have no guilt. We can blame the far right for his election, since his base delivered heavily both times he ran for President.

Now, regarding the Dem controlled Congress, they have done basically squat since taking control back in 2006. I am sick and tired of being fed a bunch of BS by a party, (Democratic) that pays the gay community a bunch of lip service and NEVER delivers. (They do the same with the black community) and we always fall for it.

Now, they are prosposing to bankrupt this country with massive spending bills which in the end is going to mean higher taxes for us all, including the middle/working class. Look at the hypocrisy of Barney Frank and Chris Dood recently? You really trust the Dem party to turn things around? I think not..Look at where you live? Taxachusetts, some of the highest taxes in the United States!!

Personally, I would love to see the whole lot of the bums thrown out of office, and elect independents who are fiscal conservatives/ moderate social liberals. It never benefits our country as a whole when one party dominates all branches of government as we saw under 8 years of Bush.

Divided government is best to make the SOB's work together!

and Yes, I voted for Bill 2x, and would again.
 
Bill can't be (though I wish....)

President again.

There was a little Constitutional Amendment put in place during the (Harry)Truman years limiting a President to two four-year terms.

I am exceedingly, exceedingly grateful for same, or we'd be even more messed up than we are.

One of the phosphate ban proponents spoke about installing a mechanical water softener. Bad idea, because they are expensive, noisy, and use water and lots of salt, unless a person uses potassium pellets to recharge.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
I for one DO NOT CARE about conserving or anything of the li

How absurd ...do you know what kind of hell hole this country would be if everybody had an attitude like yours?
 
I am in full agreement with you regarding Bush.

Trust me, many Moderate, to liberal Republicans I know are ashamed to be associated with him. I never voted for him, therefore I have no guilt. We can blame the far right for his election, since his base delivered heavily both times he ran for President.

I am sick and tired of being fed a bunch of BS by a party, (Democratic) that pays the gay community a bunch of lip service and NEVER delivers. (They do the same with the black community) and we always fall for it.

Shane, it's so good to see you posting again. When I need some comic relief, all I have to do is read one of your posts, and I am rolling! Thank you!

It's too bad that you cannot have your own show on Fox, Shane. It could be called "The Shane Idiot Factor" and all the racist hillbillys and closeted homophobes(who are not really racist, or homophobic at all....)Plus all the "Liberal Republicans" , could tune in each day while you share your extensive political "knowledge" and warped opinions.
 
There was a little Constitutional Amendment

Lawrence,

The 22nd ammendment. I thought that was only consecutive terms? I'll have to check that. If it's not, then I should have said, "I wish Bill could have run again."

Suds- Yes, I do agree that there's been some lip service handed down. Wish it wern't that way. As to whether or not I trust the Dems to turn this around, I have to. I can't even imagine what it'll be like if they can't. Unfortunately, Bush sent us down a slippery slope when he started these stimuli packages.

As for Taxachusetts, we've had idiots in control (Governor) for too long, and it's gotten worse with the current idiot (a Dem, but an idiot Dem). Some of our tax rates are indeed high, but you need to really look at them. MA Sales tax is 5% but it excludes clothing and food, probably the two biggest day-to-day expenses. NH is the only state neighboring us that has a lower rate of 0% (though they do tax meals, rooms, and some other things). VT: 6%. NY: 7-8.75%. CT: 6%. RI: 7%. Property taxes are higher in NH, as are insurance rates.

Chuck
 
Shane,

You're making a big mistake trying to politicize the bans on phosphate. You are ignoring the basic facts of the matter: in areas where there are a lot of fresh water lakes with run-off from humans into them, there are likely to be bans on phosphates in consumer laundry (and now dishwashing) detergents. The more arid states, such as California, Nevada, Arizona, etc, have no such bans, or if they do, they are on a local basis (I think there may be restrictions around Lake Tahoe, for example). In fact, it's been established that in California, the #1 pollutant of concern is nitrates, not phosphates. There are also major concerns about nitrate levels in sewage treatment effluent in other parts of the country - and I understand this is a major issue in parts of the South with lots of pig farms - with holding ponds for pig waste that threaten or actually do pollute local water bodies there. A phosphate ban does nothing to address this serious issue.

It just so happens that much of the Northeast has a lot of fresh water lakes, and being densely populated with older sewage treatment systems, a lot of discharge into these lakes. These just happen also to be "blue" states. But if you look at the "red" deep south; states like Georgia, they also have bans on laundry phosphates, and most likely will follow suit with proposed bans on dishwasher phosphates if they haven't done so already.

Not that I agree with these bans, mind you. I've been a vocal proponent of using phosphates in laundry and dishwashers for the past ten years. I'm lucky to live in a very blue state (California) with no bans on phosphate usage. There are ways to reduce phosphates in the municipal waste stream via tertiary water treatment. The recovered phosphate can be used in agriculture and other industries. ALL pollutants - especially nitrates - need to be reduced to acceptable levels from sewage treatment effluent before it is released back into the ecosystem.
 
Common Sense...

...Is what is lacking here. An outright ban on an effective cleaning product, when there are treatment alternatives and other measures that could be taken (like finding out what the smallest effective amount of phosphates might be, and limiting products to that amount) is typical gummint thinking.

It's really getting bad. Gummints are taking away choice and effective technologies, playing nanny-state games. In New York, there is a ban on trans fats, and the official responsible for ramming it through says that it will result in a huge improvement in public health. I would think that if a huge improvement in public health is wanted, making it possible for every ill New Yorker to see a doctor would probably be one hell of a lot more effective than banning Crisco.

The new Federally-mandated digital TV transition is another bit of fresh hell visited upon Americans by gummint. We've had a working TV system for around 65 years, and it is being thrown out the window in favour of a hinky, glitchy technology that works when it feels like it and doesn't the rest of the time, which in actual practise, seems to be most of the time. Don't talk to me about better antennae and fringe areas; we're in metro Atlanta, have upgraded antennae twice and we're still plagued by pixelation, dropouts, freezing and "No Signal" messages. Who the F designed this crap - Microsoft? We have friends in fringe and semi-rural areas whose choices now consist of satellite, cable, or no TV at all.

Corporate America and Washington are so deep in each others' back pockets it's not funny. Big Business has evolved a business model that depends on eliminating jobs, benefits and manufacturing expense, leaving Americans without savings, pensions, health insurance and in some cases, a roof over their heads. Washington has yet to impose the drastic and realistic controls on corporations that are needed to keep jobs here and channel a reasonable portion of corporate income back into the community. A corporation's stock price has become the new God, worshipped by CEOs and Congress alike, and the public be damned. The only thing our gummint seems to "do" for us is to impose more and more rules on us that limit our ability to make our own choices and fend for ourselves.

We need, and right quick:

- A realistic national health care system of insurance funded by both individuals, their employers, and in the cases of those who are too disabled to earn, the government itself.

- A job retention program at the Federal level - a system of incentives to keep jobs here and a system of disincentives to ship them elsewhere. There could be tax relief for companies keeping manufacturing here instead of sending it to other countries. There could be a system of forcing corporations to share in the costs the government incurs when a community's "lifeblood" company shuts a plant. There could be a whole lot of things besides what is happening in former manufacturing centres all across this nation.

- There needs to be a system of national referendum or issue votes during mid-term election cycles when something affecting Americans as broadly as the digital TV issue comes up. Airwaves that belong to all of us were auctioned off to cellular carriers for a paltry sum, so that they could make more money. The elderly, the poor, those on fixed incomes, those in rural areas and those who just plain damn didn't like the idea of jettisoning a working system capable of reaching 99% of the population in minutes during a crisis (remember 9/11?) didn't get a voice. Big Business wanted, Big Business got, and the rest of us are picking up costs for converter boxes, new antennae, cable and satellite subscriptions, new TVs and video recorders just so they can make enormous profits. Do you think the poeple affected by all this got any direct say in the matter? Hell, no. That ain't right.

- Federal agencies need to be required to pick up the phone, and to respond to violations of Federal law (particularly wage and hour laws, consumer laws and OSHA violations) within a reasonably short time frame. Right now, trying to get help from a Federal agency - no matter how egregious the situation - is like something out of Kafka. All too often, people are told that their only recourse is through the court system - which for the average wage-earner, is tantamount to no recourse at all. If a Federal law is being violated, the Feds should step in, period. Now.

- The 30-year, fixed rate mortgage has to become the norm again, at least for the ordinary houses that ordinary Americans need over their heads. If someone wants a 6,000-square-foot monument to excess and has the income to back up the desire, fine - let them take their chances with a hinky ARM. But for houses 2,500 square feet and under, with no notable luxury features, fair and stable mortgage payments are needed if wage-earning Americans are not to continue losing houses. There is a lot of talk about the irresponsibility of people who took out ARMs, and some of it is quite true. But for many people with less-than-perfect credit scores, it was the ARM or nothing. Is an ARM the best this rich nation can offer to a wage-earning family whose only other choice is public housing, with all the appalling crime, gangs and drug activity that goes on in such places?

- Pension funds have to be made inviolable, with the most fearful penalties imaginable dealt out to anyone who plunders, mis-invests, squanders or steals money that is intended to provide retirees with financial stability. The loophole that exists when a corporation changes hands must be forever closed; Polaroid employees who'd worked for thirty years toward what they thought was a securely funded pension got the shock of their lives when that company was sold some years ago; people got "settlement" cheques of as little as seventeen dollars (yes, $17) - and it was all perfectly legal. We won't even go into what has happened with investments lately, due to the machinations of Madoff and his odious ilk. What are the old supposed to do when their money has been stolen - get a rice bowl and beg on the streets? This is America, folks.

- And last but certainly not least, lobbying should be seriously curbed if not outlawed outright (I'm personally in favour of making it a hanging crime). Under the lobbying system, too many favours and kickbacks and too much tit-for-tat stuff goes on, to the extreme detriment of this nation's civic business and its citizens. Decisions on what Federal laws are to be enacted and what Federal dollars are to be spent where should be the exclusive province of the American people, whose country this is. The influence of corporations' employees, members of special-interest groups, and CEOs should be limited to their individual votes as citizens and not a single damned thing more.

Okay, the old soapbox is about to collapse under the weight of all this, but what is going on in this country is obscene, and I personally want to see the Obama administration make huge strides in cleaning up a mess that has evolved over far too many other administrations, both Democratic and Republican.

Rant over. For the moment.
 
Rick~

oh, your welcome Rick...anytime!

Now, don't you have a house to renovate, or a boyfriend to visit in jail?
 
Rich~

"You're making a big mistake trying to politicize the bans on phosphate".

It is all political Rich. the same people here who are bitching about the environment, and the effect phosphates have on lakes and streams, are the same people who will order a big bag of STPP from chemistry store.com. It is blatant hypocrisy at it's best. I know for a fact many liberals here who voted for Obama, who are upset about the potential nationwide phosphate ban.
 
> the same people here who are bitching about the environment, and the effect phosphates have on lakes and streams, are the same people who will order a big bag of STPP from chemistry store.com. It is blatant hypocrisy at it's best. <

A person can be in favor of removing phosphates from laundry detergent, and still want the ability to buy it as a separate product. The current situation is perfect IMO: most people don't know what STPP is, they don't care to know and they don't need to know, while the relative few laundry "experts" in our country can still get it. The environment wins, and people who do their homework win.
 
On my comment abot not caring about conserving, I am very set in my ways and do not like to change for anyone, and continue doing as I always have done things, I just don't feel the need to change the way things have always been done here to make someone else happy.

Also, Sandy, thank you for all of you comments and I agree with you about what you had to say.

Sam
 
I just don't feel the need to change the way things hav

With an attitude like that, if you don't have anyone special in your life, I doubt you ever will!!
 

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