Spokane residents smuggling "good" dishwasher detergents in from out of state

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I am in full agreement with you regarding Bush.

Trust me, many Moderate, to liberal Republicans I know are ashamed to be associated with him. I never voted for him, therefore I have no guilt. We can blame the far right for his election, since his base delivered heavily both times he ran for President.

I am sick and tired of being fed a bunch of BS by a party, (Democratic) that pays the gay community a bunch of lip service and NEVER delivers. (They do the same with the black community) and we always fall for it.

Shane, it's so good to see you posting again. When I need some comic relief, all I have to do is read one of your posts, and I am rolling! Thank you!

It's too bad that you cannot have your own show on Fox, Shane. It could be called "The Shane Idiot Factor" and all the racist hillbillys and closeted homophobes(who are not really racist, or homophobic at all....)Plus all the "Liberal Republicans" , could tune in each day while you share your extensive political "knowledge" and warped opinions.
 
There was a little Constitutional Amendment

Lawrence,

The 22nd ammendment. I thought that was only consecutive terms? I'll have to check that. If it's not, then I should have said, "I wish Bill could have run again."

Suds- Yes, I do agree that there's been some lip service handed down. Wish it wern't that way. As to whether or not I trust the Dems to turn this around, I have to. I can't even imagine what it'll be like if they can't. Unfortunately, Bush sent us down a slippery slope when he started these stimuli packages.

As for Taxachusetts, we've had idiots in control (Governor) for too long, and it's gotten worse with the current idiot (a Dem, but an idiot Dem). Some of our tax rates are indeed high, but you need to really look at them. MA Sales tax is 5% but it excludes clothing and food, probably the two biggest day-to-day expenses. NH is the only state neighboring us that has a lower rate of 0% (though they do tax meals, rooms, and some other things). VT: 6%. NY: 7-8.75%. CT: 6%. RI: 7%. Property taxes are higher in NH, as are insurance rates.

Chuck
 
Shane,

You're making a big mistake trying to politicize the bans on phosphate. You are ignoring the basic facts of the matter: in areas where there are a lot of fresh water lakes with run-off from humans into them, there are likely to be bans on phosphates in consumer laundry (and now dishwashing) detergents. The more arid states, such as California, Nevada, Arizona, etc, have no such bans, or if they do, they are on a local basis (I think there may be restrictions around Lake Tahoe, for example). In fact, it's been established that in California, the #1 pollutant of concern is nitrates, not phosphates. There are also major concerns about nitrate levels in sewage treatment effluent in other parts of the country - and I understand this is a major issue in parts of the South with lots of pig farms - with holding ponds for pig waste that threaten or actually do pollute local water bodies there. A phosphate ban does nothing to address this serious issue.

It just so happens that much of the Northeast has a lot of fresh water lakes, and being densely populated with older sewage treatment systems, a lot of discharge into these lakes. These just happen also to be "blue" states. But if you look at the "red" deep south; states like Georgia, they also have bans on laundry phosphates, and most likely will follow suit with proposed bans on dishwasher phosphates if they haven't done so already.

Not that I agree with these bans, mind you. I've been a vocal proponent of using phosphates in laundry and dishwashers for the past ten years. I'm lucky to live in a very blue state (California) with no bans on phosphate usage. There are ways to reduce phosphates in the municipal waste stream via tertiary water treatment. The recovered phosphate can be used in agriculture and other industries. ALL pollutants - especially nitrates - need to be reduced to acceptable levels from sewage treatment effluent before it is released back into the ecosystem.
 
Common Sense...

...Is what is lacking here. An outright ban on an effective cleaning product, when there are treatment alternatives and other measures that could be taken (like finding out what the smallest effective amount of phosphates might be, and limiting products to that amount) is typical gummint thinking.

It's really getting bad. Gummints are taking away choice and effective technologies, playing nanny-state games. In New York, there is a ban on trans fats, and the official responsible for ramming it through says that it will result in a huge improvement in public health. I would think that if a huge improvement in public health is wanted, making it possible for every ill New Yorker to see a doctor would probably be one hell of a lot more effective than banning Crisco.

The new Federally-mandated digital TV transition is another bit of fresh hell visited upon Americans by gummint. We've had a working TV system for around 65 years, and it is being thrown out the window in favour of a hinky, glitchy technology that works when it feels like it and doesn't the rest of the time, which in actual practise, seems to be most of the time. Don't talk to me about better antennae and fringe areas; we're in metro Atlanta, have upgraded antennae twice and we're still plagued by pixelation, dropouts, freezing and "No Signal" messages. Who the F designed this crap - Microsoft? We have friends in fringe and semi-rural areas whose choices now consist of satellite, cable, or no TV at all.

Corporate America and Washington are so deep in each others' back pockets it's not funny. Big Business has evolved a business model that depends on eliminating jobs, benefits and manufacturing expense, leaving Americans without savings, pensions, health insurance and in some cases, a roof over their heads. Washington has yet to impose the drastic and realistic controls on corporations that are needed to keep jobs here and channel a reasonable portion of corporate income back into the community. A corporation's stock price has become the new God, worshipped by CEOs and Congress alike, and the public be damned. The only thing our gummint seems to "do" for us is to impose more and more rules on us that limit our ability to make our own choices and fend for ourselves.

We need, and right quick:

- A realistic national health care system of insurance funded by both individuals, their employers, and in the cases of those who are too disabled to earn, the government itself.

- A job retention program at the Federal level - a system of incentives to keep jobs here and a system of disincentives to ship them elsewhere. There could be tax relief for companies keeping manufacturing here instead of sending it to other countries. There could be a system of forcing corporations to share in the costs the government incurs when a community's "lifeblood" company shuts a plant. There could be a whole lot of things besides what is happening in former manufacturing centres all across this nation.

- There needs to be a system of national referendum or issue votes during mid-term election cycles when something affecting Americans as broadly as the digital TV issue comes up. Airwaves that belong to all of us were auctioned off to cellular carriers for a paltry sum, so that they could make more money. The elderly, the poor, those on fixed incomes, those in rural areas and those who just plain damn didn't like the idea of jettisoning a working system capable of reaching 99% of the population in minutes during a crisis (remember 9/11?) didn't get a voice. Big Business wanted, Big Business got, and the rest of us are picking up costs for converter boxes, new antennae, cable and satellite subscriptions, new TVs and video recorders just so they can make enormous profits. Do you think the poeple affected by all this got any direct say in the matter? Hell, no. That ain't right.

- Federal agencies need to be required to pick up the phone, and to respond to violations of Federal law (particularly wage and hour laws, consumer laws and OSHA violations) within a reasonably short time frame. Right now, trying to get help from a Federal agency - no matter how egregious the situation - is like something out of Kafka. All too often, people are told that their only recourse is through the court system - which for the average wage-earner, is tantamount to no recourse at all. If a Federal law is being violated, the Feds should step in, period. Now.

- The 30-year, fixed rate mortgage has to become the norm again, at least for the ordinary houses that ordinary Americans need over their heads. If someone wants a 6,000-square-foot monument to excess and has the income to back up the desire, fine - let them take their chances with a hinky ARM. But for houses 2,500 square feet and under, with no notable luxury features, fair and stable mortgage payments are needed if wage-earning Americans are not to continue losing houses. There is a lot of talk about the irresponsibility of people who took out ARMs, and some of it is quite true. But for many people with less-than-perfect credit scores, it was the ARM or nothing. Is an ARM the best this rich nation can offer to a wage-earning family whose only other choice is public housing, with all the appalling crime, gangs and drug activity that goes on in such places?

- Pension funds have to be made inviolable, with the most fearful penalties imaginable dealt out to anyone who plunders, mis-invests, squanders or steals money that is intended to provide retirees with financial stability. The loophole that exists when a corporation changes hands must be forever closed; Polaroid employees who'd worked for thirty years toward what they thought was a securely funded pension got the shock of their lives when that company was sold some years ago; people got "settlement" cheques of as little as seventeen dollars (yes, $17) - and it was all perfectly legal. We won't even go into what has happened with investments lately, due to the machinations of Madoff and his odious ilk. What are the old supposed to do when their money has been stolen - get a rice bowl and beg on the streets? This is America, folks.

- And last but certainly not least, lobbying should be seriously curbed if not outlawed outright (I'm personally in favour of making it a hanging crime). Under the lobbying system, too many favours and kickbacks and too much tit-for-tat stuff goes on, to the extreme detriment of this nation's civic business and its citizens. Decisions on what Federal laws are to be enacted and what Federal dollars are to be spent where should be the exclusive province of the American people, whose country this is. The influence of corporations' employees, members of special-interest groups, and CEOs should be limited to their individual votes as citizens and not a single damned thing more.

Okay, the old soapbox is about to collapse under the weight of all this, but what is going on in this country is obscene, and I personally want to see the Obama administration make huge strides in cleaning up a mess that has evolved over far too many other administrations, both Democratic and Republican.

Rant over. For the moment.
 
Rick~

oh, your welcome Rick...anytime!

Now, don't you have a house to renovate, or a boyfriend to visit in jail?
 
Rich~

"You're making a big mistake trying to politicize the bans on phosphate".

It is all political Rich. the same people here who are bitching about the environment, and the effect phosphates have on lakes and streams, are the same people who will order a big bag of STPP from chemistry store.com. It is blatant hypocrisy at it's best. I know for a fact many liberals here who voted for Obama, who are upset about the potential nationwide phosphate ban.
 
> the same people here who are bitching about the environment, and the effect phosphates have on lakes and streams, are the same people who will order a big bag of STPP from chemistry store.com. It is blatant hypocrisy at it's best. <

A person can be in favor of removing phosphates from laundry detergent, and still want the ability to buy it as a separate product. The current situation is perfect IMO: most people don't know what STPP is, they don't care to know and they don't need to know, while the relative few laundry "experts" in our country can still get it. The environment wins, and people who do their homework win.
 
On my comment abot not caring about conserving, I am very set in my ways and do not like to change for anyone, and continue doing as I always have done things, I just don't feel the need to change the way things have always been done here to make someone else happy.

Also, Sandy, thank you for all of you comments and I agree with you about what you had to say.

Sam
 
I just don't feel the need to change the way things hav

With an attitude like that, if you don't have anyone special in your life, I doubt you ever will!!
 
Xraytech

Sam,

You're 22 years old!

How 'set in your ways' can you possibly be?

I suggest that you have a good look around you at the crisis that are emerging around the globe be it water shortages, pollution, fossil fuels, increased pollution in rivers, lakes and oceans and global warming in general and then hand-over-heart comment that you are 'set in your ways'....i.e. not prepared to do a thing to help.

Nobody is saying that you can't still use your favourite appliances or, as far as I am concerned, favourite detergents. What goads people is that you appear unprepared to do anything.

How about recycling the final rinse water out onto your lawn or pot plants/flower beds?

As for 'burning pits', the chances are, if it is burnable, it is recyclable....consider rinsing out cardboard containers/tins/bottles (use that rinse water from the washer!) and put them in a big box in the boot of that huge car you say you have and drop them off at the recycling depot in town next time you are in there....

If everyone did at least SOMETHING rather than the nothing that you say you do (or don't do) the world would actually be a better and cleaner place.
 
I try to be green where possible

BUT--if there is no good alternative detergents available. I would most certain smuggle.
There is nothing more frustrating that running a load and having dirty dishes in the washer when they are finished. I do not pre-soad, or pre-rinse because that's the dishwahser's job.

If this ban was to go nationwide. How long will detergent store and still be good?

I see that they authorities suggested installing a water softner. Did I read somewhere that mechanical water softening causes pollution as well with all the salt that is released?
 
Try to be "green" where possible, but not to the point in increases my housework load and or endangers health.

Case in point, tried Ecover's rinse aid, thinking it was a good choice in the dishwasher because it was "green" and wouldn't leave any sort of chemical residue. Well no matter what one did, there was always "yibbles" left on dishes. Tried adding STPP to the wash (which caused etching of my glassware), and even adding an extra rinse,which increased water use. Finally gave up and went back to JetDry, mainly because local supermarket had the lot on special as it was being discontinued. Now my dishes are clean, and dry for the most part totally without using the heated dry cycle. With the Ecover rinse aid, often there would be drops of water on bowls, silverware and such.

L.
 
Launderess....

I agree...

I would rather use a good not so green product sparingly and know that it works than a 'green' product at a higher rate which negates half the benefit...
 
"If this ban was to go nationwide. How long will deterg

It is going nationwide. The article states that the detergent manufacturers have made an "irrevocable, nationwide commitment."

I wouldn't recommend tablets -- I've had them get so hard it took a hammer to pulverize them; they'd just go through all the cycles and look good as new! Powders will last a long time, but they can get hard fairly quickly especially in humid storage. I imagine either a liquid or perhaps the Electrasol/Finish gelpacs would keep a long time.

The problem is the same as when phosphates were eliminated from most laundry detergents in the 1990s: You can stock up, as I tried to, but eventually, you run out and are in the same boat as everyone else.
 
Depending Upon Water Hardness

One really only needs a small amount of phosphates per wash load, so in theory a good sized stash should last quite a long time.

Am still trying to work through five pounds of STPP purchased from the Chemistry Store, well over a year ago now. Took well over a year and one-half (maybe two years), to go through a box of vintage Amway "water softening powder" , which is a blend of phosphates.
 
I have a $33 box of miele dishwasher tabs under my sink, along with those new Finish/Electrosol tabs and Cascade GEL packs. SO far the Finish ones are best, but only one load has been run with the miele ones..

What does any one know about the miele tabs?
 
Miele Tabs

Chuck, When visiting the Miele showroom in Princeton, NJ last year, there were free samples of the tabs. I took a pocket full. The tabs really do a nice job. I am thinking of ordering some.

Ray
 

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