Spped Queen Combo POD
- Thread starter lesto
- Start date
Help Support :
macboy91si
Well-known member
SQ
This is a very handsome machine, I've only seen the WP fullsize combo at Robert's but never any of the other originals.
This is a very handsome machine, I've only seen the WP fullsize combo at Robert's but never any of the other originals.
I wonder if this was an original Speed Queen design, or if it was bought elsewhere. It doesn't look much like other Speed Queens, and given the small market here in the US for combo machines it hardly seems worth it for a small company to bother designing and building a new combo.
these are rare
AFAIK this was SQ's own design. John (combo52) is the only member who has one
AFAIK this was SQ's own design. John (combo52) is the only member who has one
John does have one, it's a fascinating design.
Hotpoint came up with their own combo design in the late 50's and although we have seen a tiny bit of sales info and I found a service manual, it doesn't appear to have ever gone into actual production, at least very limited production if any. With expense of production and factory tooling, I'm sure it was more cost effective to re-brand the GE combo with the Hotpoint name and further standardize their production. Probably a very wise move for what certainly turned out to be a niche market in appliances. The Speed Queen shares many similar design components with Hotpoint's. Should scan that manual for the service section of the club sometime. We've pondered that perhaps Speed Queen purchased some of the designs from Hotpoint and combined with their own. It would be interesting to track down some engineers from this time to find out.
Speed Queen never held a big share of the residential automatic laundry market, certainly not like Sears, Maytag and others, but in the coin-op and commercial-OPL markets they were pretty huge.
Hotpoint came up with their own combo design in the late 50's and although we have seen a tiny bit of sales info and I found a service manual, it doesn't appear to have ever gone into actual production, at least very limited production if any. With expense of production and factory tooling, I'm sure it was more cost effective to re-brand the GE combo with the Hotpoint name and further standardize their production. Probably a very wise move for what certainly turned out to be a niche market in appliances. The Speed Queen shares many similar design components with Hotpoint's. Should scan that manual for the service section of the club sometime. We've pondered that perhaps Speed Queen purchased some of the designs from Hotpoint and combined with their own. It would be interesting to track down some engineers from this time to find out.
Speed Queen never held a big share of the residential automatic laundry market, certainly not like Sears, Maytag and others, but in the coin-op and commercial-OPL markets they were pretty huge.
SQ introduced this when the coin-op drycleaning fad was hot. Maybe their dry cleaner inspired them of make this, although it's not very inspired except for the two shock absorbers. The drying system is like the slowest drying condensor models with no fan or condensation chamber, just a heating element and cold water spraying on a baffle at the rear of the outer tub.
amyswasher
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 25, 2009
- Messages
- 477
From what I heard
Utilities were cheap, washer & Dryers were expensive. I could not imagine using something like this as a daily driver. It's a cute machine though. Of course I think people that used these machines hung clothes out on the line most of the time, and used the dryer part when it was raining outside.
Utilities were cheap, washer & Dryers were expensive. I could not imagine using something like this as a daily driver. It's a cute machine though. Of course I think people that used these machines hung clothes out on the line most of the time, and used the dryer part when it was raining outside.
SQ COMBO
I do believe the Hotpoint combo was made at least briefly. From looking at the service manuel that Greg has and the Speed Queen service that we have the two machines are the same design. But the HP was a larger machine, Speed Queen redesigned the size of the machine and incorporated some of thier own design ideas into it. The SQ combo had a front hinge so the top assembly and the front panel were hinged for servicing just like the SQ top load washers of the time. The overall dimensions were also the same as the SQ washers of the time. SQ was the last US company to introduce a combo, I don't know how long they made them, the ones I have were made 1962-3.
I do believe the Hotpoint combo was made at least briefly. From looking at the service manuel that Greg has and the Speed Queen service that we have the two machines are the same design. But the HP was a larger machine, Speed Queen redesigned the size of the machine and incorporated some of thier own design ideas into it. The SQ combo had a front hinge so the top assembly and the front panel were hinged for servicing just like the SQ top load washers of the time. The overall dimensions were also the same as the SQ washers of the time. SQ was the last US company to introduce a combo, I don't know how long they made them, the ones I have were made 1962-3.
Most people who owned combos could not avoid using the dry portion of the cycle because only the Bendix and Philco machines spun out as much water as a regular washer. If you tried to hang out the load pulled from other combos after the final spin, you would have items hanging on the line and dripping water for hours and becoming very stiff as they dried. The big Kenmore 33" combo had a setting for line drying that gave the load about 30 minutes of heated dry to bring them from wet to damp. Other combos had a "Damp Dry" setting like for ironing that terminated the dry cycle before the clothes were dry. GE was perhaps most truthful in this matter. Instead of a button labeled "Wash Only" their option was labeled "Drip Dry." Even through the wash cycle went through the three final spin periods before it stopped when "Drip Dry" was pushed, there was enough water left in the items that they would, indeed, drip if hung out to dry. The GE combo did have a Damp setting on its dryer control dial, but most combo owners just sort of committed to letting the machines run through the whole cycle. If you let the load dry to the Damp stage in most of the combos, you would be left with hot fabrics to unload and hang on the line since the drying temperatures in many combos were higher than in separate vented clothes dryers. For those of you who have used one, think Filtrator to get an idea of damp fabric temperatures. Combo owners were not the sort to save the dryer for bad weather. They were people who wanted a dryer, but often did not have space for two separate units. The people who usually hung laundry outside had a separate washer and dryer and the dryer would be in like new condition at the estate sale.
amyswasher
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 25, 2009
- Messages
- 477
Thanks
for the clarification. It makes more sense why people used these combo's. I seem like it would cost an arm and a leg to use these appliances now, without spinning the water out of the clothes before drying.
for the clarification. It makes more sense why people used these combo's. I seem like it would cost an arm and a leg to use these appliances now, without spinning the water out of the clothes before drying.
Yup! Bendix poisoned the well for combos and even hurt their own sales by the reputation combos got for being inefficient, troublesome machines. Bendix patents prohibited any combination from having the suspension necessary to allow sufficient spinning. In today's world, everyone would just put their name on a Bendix combo and that would be that but back in the 50s, everyone had to make their own so they made machines that could not spin well. After companies invested so much money in tooling up to build combos, they did not recoup the investment to make significant improvements, although what they could have done while hobbled by the patent issue is unknown. Because of the volume of machines Sears sold, they had money for Whirlpool to completely redesign the combos for Sears in the early 60s. They came up with a machine which had 1600 parts by a count John's brother Jerry made; just as many as a VW Beetle. An ingenious or maniacal balancing system allowed it to spin at 500 rpm in the early models then 400 rpm after some major and necessary redesigning took place. It spun about as well as a Kenmore top loader on slow spin, but it was the best extracting combo other than the Bendix design.
Consumer Reports and Consumer's Research Bulletin decried the expense of operating the combos, mainly because they took so long to dry the poorly extracted loads. You have to remember that about the time that combos appeared, many homes were being built without basements and without traditional laundry rooms, those post WWII starter homes. They had a space in the kitchen, or bath or hall closet that would allow a washer or sometimes the stacked Westinghouse units, which had their own plague of problems, but not a washer and a dryer. Combos seemed like the answer to prayers, but the compromises were pretty large in performance and construction. Even today, you look at these beautiful machines and have such high hopes for washing and drying in them and when you do and see all of the shortcomings in performance. Then you read in the postings by Greg and others who have restored some of these machines about how design flaws and inadequate materials at the time led to more problems, except for the Bendix machines which were well built and tested very well when Consumer Reports rated the Duomatic.
Consumer Reports and Consumer's Research Bulletin decried the expense of operating the combos, mainly because they took so long to dry the poorly extracted loads. You have to remember that about the time that combos appeared, many homes were being built without basements and without traditional laundry rooms, those post WWII starter homes. They had a space in the kitchen, or bath or hall closet that would allow a washer or sometimes the stacked Westinghouse units, which had their own plague of problems, but not a washer and a dryer. Combos seemed like the answer to prayers, but the compromises were pretty large in performance and construction. Even today, you look at these beautiful machines and have such high hopes for washing and drying in them and when you do and see all of the shortcomings in performance. Then you read in the postings by Greg and others who have restored some of these machines about how design flaws and inadequate materials at the time led to more problems, except for the Bendix machines which were well built and tested very well when Consumer Reports rated the Duomatic.
COMBO SPIN SPEEDS
The SQ combo spun at 515 RPMs and had the same type of suspension as the big Bendix combos maybe they paid royalties to Bendix?. The 29" WP and KM combos spun at 525 RPMs till 1963 when they reduced the speed to 450 RPMs which gives about the same extraction as a belt drive WP machine at high speed when you take into account the large 26" diameter drum. The only time consumer reports did an extensive report on combos was 1960 when they tested more than 12 machines. The LKM electric & gas machines were top rated and the WP gas model. These were still the 33" models with the low spin speed of aproximally 200RPMs but never the less they were good overall performers. Consumer Reports had a lot of praise for these machines averall, Most did an very good job of cleaning, were excellent at sand and lint removable and none had any out of balance problems or required any further attention from the user once started. In fact they stated that many users would consider these combos a gift of the the gods. All that said the 36" bendix 1952-1958 and the 29" WP & KM 1961-1971 were by far the two best combos in terms of performance and reliably.
The SQ combo spun at 515 RPMs and had the same type of suspension as the big Bendix combos maybe they paid royalties to Bendix?. The 29" WP and KM combos spun at 525 RPMs till 1963 when they reduced the speed to 450 RPMs which gives about the same extraction as a belt drive WP machine at high speed when you take into account the large 26" diameter drum. The only time consumer reports did an extensive report on combos was 1960 when they tested more than 12 machines. The LKM electric & gas machines were top rated and the WP gas model. These were still the 33" models with the low spin speed of aproximally 200RPMs but never the less they were good overall performers. Consumer Reports had a lot of praise for these machines averall, Most did an very good job of cleaning, were excellent at sand and lint removable and none had any out of balance problems or required any further attention from the user once started. In fact they stated that many users would consider these combos a gift of the the gods. All that said the 36" bendix 1952-1958 and the 29" WP & KM 1961-1971 were by far the two best combos in terms of performance and reliably.
Funny, we have taken tachs to several of the 29 inch combos and gotten readings of 400 rpm during the high speed spin. While Belt Drive WP machines are no great shakes at spinning, you cannot squeeze water from heavy items after the final spin like you can with a heavy towel after the final spin in a 29" KM combo.
"In fact they stated that many users would consider these combos a gift of the the gods." the remainder of the quote from the 1960 article reads, if they do not have room for a separate washer and dryer. If there was room for separate units, they recommended buying an agitator washer and a dryer over a combo. While CU did not like the performance of tumbler washers and, again, they mention the inferior washing ability of low sudsing detergents, they did allow that the generally larger drums of the combos provided better cleaning than the smaller drums of tumbler washers and tumbler washers have always excelled at sand disposal and producing less lint than agitator-type machines.
CU complained about the cost of operating the water heaters in the WP-made machines, but they probably did not realize how important they were to the high scores the machines received for washing ability, nor did they realize how much heat was lost to heating up all of the metal in the machine from the three gallons of water to fill the sump plus what was needed to saturate the load. The water heating was a brilliant addition to those huge machines, especially when they had either a 220 volt electrical supply or natural gas to the machines. I wonder if part of the reason that the original Duomatic ranked just below the WP washer in cleaning ability in the '53 or '54 test by CU was the presence of the Magic Heater, a 4400 watt immersion element that operated on the Hot wash water setting. As water consumption has decreased in new washers, we have seen how difficult it is to obtain hot washes in machines without heaters unless hot water lines are purged before the wash fill, not that most people care anymore.
"In fact they stated that many users would consider these combos a gift of the the gods." the remainder of the quote from the 1960 article reads, if they do not have room for a separate washer and dryer. If there was room for separate units, they recommended buying an agitator washer and a dryer over a combo. While CU did not like the performance of tumbler washers and, again, they mention the inferior washing ability of low sudsing detergents, they did allow that the generally larger drums of the combos provided better cleaning than the smaller drums of tumbler washers and tumbler washers have always excelled at sand disposal and producing less lint than agitator-type machines.
CU complained about the cost of operating the water heaters in the WP-made machines, but they probably did not realize how important they were to the high scores the machines received for washing ability, nor did they realize how much heat was lost to heating up all of the metal in the machine from the three gallons of water to fill the sump plus what was needed to saturate the load. The water heating was a brilliant addition to those huge machines, especially when they had either a 220 volt electrical supply or natural gas to the machines. I wonder if part of the reason that the original Duomatic ranked just below the WP washer in cleaning ability in the '53 or '54 test by CU was the presence of the Magic Heater, a 4400 watt immersion element that operated on the Hot wash water setting. As water consumption has decreased in new washers, we have seen how difficult it is to obtain hot washes in machines without heaters unless hot water lines are purged before the wash fill, not that most people care anymore.
