SQ FL or TL

[lightedcontrols]

Today

Today I repaired two Maytag FL's. One was a year and a half old, and I replaced the tub bearing in it. The other was a year and a week old, and I replaced the control board. Both of those repairs were a little over $400.00 You couldn't give me that crap. You don't need a heater and all that other stuff even though the marketing is really good on Whirlpool's part, to make you think that you do. You don't need steam in your washer OR dryer either. For what? Are your clothes THAT dirty? If they are, throw them away and get new ones! Stick with the Speed Queen machines. The last one that I worked on was a 1962 that wouldn't fill up. The owner had replaced his pump and filled all of his water lines to the washer, dishwasher, icemaker, etc.... with mud. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with the machine! Mark

 

[washman]

I agree with lightedcontrols

Far too much has been put into unecessary gimmicks at the expense of quality components and time tested design.

When did it become necessary to steam clothes in order to clean them?

When did it become necessary to have water heated by your machine in order to ensure a clean load of clothes? The vast majority of cotton and cotton/blend fabrics read in part "machine wash warm, tumble dry low. Warm iron if needed"

How then did momma and granny manage to wash cloth diapers in their Maytags, Speed Queens and such relying soley on the heated water from the water heater? Does anyone recall scores of babies sick and diseased because of this? This too when most people line dried their laundry!

Along those lines, when did plain jane old Tide or Rinso suddenly not clean clothes enough to remove bacteria and viruses and other nasty bugs? Amazingly enough, I cannot recall ever being sick because my clothes were ridden with bacteria! Thus the reason so called antibacterial detergents are just plain old hyperbole.

We're told to wash our grubby hands after going potty in 120 degree water with soap. Why is that not sufficient to clean your tighty whities?

We see that on FL machines, there is a sanitization cycle or cleaning cycle where we need to "clean" the machine that is supposed to clean our clothes! That's like scrubbing your shower head each time you take a shower! Does that really make sense? And how efficient in terms of energy use is that when you are using resources to clean...........a friggin washing machine for god's sake?!?!??!

To those who subscribe to such nonsense, I challenge you to stop, take a deep breath and grow a brain. Put down CR. It is not nor has it ever been the be-all-end-all reservoir of product knowledge. Turn off GMA, CNN, the CBS morning news when they announce ".......we'll tell you what you need to know about _________"
Cancel your subscription to Mother Jones or Mother Earth news. If you smoke illicit herb, stop. If you drink more than 3 drinks a day every day, stop.
Doing so will clear your mind and allow you to get back to what you should have done all along and that is think for yourself.

It has always been the job of the marketing department to invent a "need" then spend ungodly amounts of money convincing everyone of such need and how their product is the ONLY one that will meet this so-called "need".

But stop and think please. Consider how hundreds of millions of poor in this world do laundry each and every day sans microprocessor controlled stainless HE TL or FL machines.
Consider how laundry was done "back in the day" with water guzzling sturdy appliances that lasted longer than most marriages.

Then make your decision.

P.S. I agree 100% with the poster regarding "extended warrantees". Why should you be paying for the manufacturers lack of confidence in their own product?

 

[frigilux]

Water needs to be heated because new machines often limit incoming water temperature to 100 degrees, no matter how hot your water heater is set.  When you press "Hot" on a vintage machine, you get water the temperature of your tap; that's not the case with machines made after 2010.

 

This is one of the things that frustrates me about my 2012 Frigidaire top-loader.  The water is never much over 100 degrees, which is lukewarm in my book.

 

I would suspect a repairman would see more Maytags, Whirlpools, etc., because they make up a large proportion of washer sales. Speed Queen sells only a very small fraction of the number sold by major brands due to limited availability.  I would suspect if SQ sold as many washers as Whirlpool, you'd see more of them on repair calls. 

 

Please understand I'm not knocking Speed Queen.  I'm just trying to provide some balance in the conversation about washers. 

[this post was last edited: 9/25/2013-22:31]

 

[logixx]

Between the two, I'd go for the Maytag as I like to set a cyle that does just what I want it to. Besides, I tend to use all the options on my appliances and there's not much to choose from on the SQ. If, however, you're like most people and like to have a simple and sturdy washer and dryer  - and you don't have to wash delicate or stained items on a regular basis - the SQ is it.

 

[washman]

I just purchased SQ TL this year

when I select hot, the water is as hot as it comes from the water heater. Warm on the other hand, is lukewarm at best. My 1999 GE profile was the same way.

 

[kb0nes]

The gimmicky cleaning and sanitizing cycles on front loaders are simply a marketing ploy. They are to help calm the fears that a front loader will will get all stinky and funky (and perhaps help keep the stupid class action suit at bay for the manufacturer).

Its a pity that our society has devolved to the point where the customer isn't at fault for improper use of an appliance. And now we have gimmicks to play into that hand. A front load washer is a slightly different animal then what most American users are used to, one does have to adapt slightly to reap the benefits they hold.

 

[washer111]

Water Heating in Washers

These have been largely commonplace in European machines since their production started. And with many homes "back then" having oil or wood heaters, it was perhaps far more efficient to heat the water via electricity.

 

Today, many are moving away from pure electric water heaters to heat pump models, gas models, solar and geothermal models. This means the heater in the washer has become less efficient. These days though, the minimal amount of water that machines uses means even getting steaming tap hot water won't give you more than a "tepid" wash at best. The heater at least boosts the temperatures to a more desirable temperature in the wash. This means it is far more efficient tempering that inlet water and boosting it to the appropriate temperature (or taking straight cold water) and heating it than it is to waste all that hot water.

 

In other parts of the world, where we have the luxury of 240v/50Hz power supplies, the heaters on our washers give us the versatility to wash in anything between Cold and 95ºC. This means we can tailor our washes to what we need, rather than what our water-heater dictates (Especially when you have a 60/40 mix of Cold/Hot water, then hot water that isn't so hot to begin with) - which can range from anything from 50º to near boiling depending on your water heater and whether it is tempered in the laundry or not.

 

Personally, I see the distinct lack of heater in the SQ machines a significant issue - unless you reverse the inlet hoses or set your water at ridiculously in-efficient temperatures to get a true "Hot" wash on these machines, you aren't going to get excellent results with that "tepid" water on the "Warm" setting, and your machine might smell a little funky.

On a Top-Loading washer, Booster heaters are basically un-necessary, due to the huge volume of water utilized versus the small thermal mass of the washer's components. That, and combined with Warm/Hot rinses on Laundry day mean that boosting the temperature would be pointless in the Top-Loaders. More modern HE TL may need boosters, as they too use too little water to get the same hot effect they once got.

 

[pierreandreply4]

one thing that is also in need of considering is the new ene

sure a modern frontload or top load is nice but there is one thing you need to consider in your toughs and that is with the new energy star rating will you fine yourself with dumbdown water temp like for exemple hot is warm warm is cool and cold is cold water from the tap? Maybe you should also consider looking for a vintage machine 1999 to 1970 or earlier for true water temp like for exemple this speedqueen set from 1972 or other brands

 

[washer111]

As for your Choice:

I would certainly recommend the Top-Loader if you want TRULY hot-water washes and Warm rinses. I can't speak much of washing performance, but people here are generally impressed with the performance they get from their washers.

 

However, if you can live with having to 'Pre-Treat' your FL machine before starting by purging the water lines, setting up to "start" a Hot wash, cancelling the loading clothes and starting up again (and the extra water usage here), then take the FL machine, and adjust the water levels to a more appropriate level (about the lip of the door boot).

The SQ like John said WILL last longer, give you better economy and perhaps better results after adjusting the water level. Go with that, if you prefer some "stuffing around" (even though you *shouldn't* have to - us washer lovers just make do and stuff around to get the best results)

 

Or, get a Miele

 

[frigilux]

I disagree that sanitize cycles and allergy cycles are gimmicks. A sanitize cycle provides an excellent
"profile" wash, in which water is gradually heated to attack different stains at the optimum temperature to remove them. 150-degree water is great for stripping body oils from bed linens, for instance. It's not a matter of being paranoid about germs.

An allergy cycle heats water to 131 degrees.

I can tell you this much: If I put a full load of wildly-stained kitchen whites in a Speed Queen front-loader (or top-loader for that matter) on its longest cycle, that load will not emerge completely stain-free. Every stain is always removed when I use the Sanitize cycle. Every time. Always.

The Speed Queen front-loader gets unimpressive scores for cleaning, while the Maytag 7000 gets an excellent rating with a 50-minute cycle (Consumer Reports). The Maytag's capacity beats Speed Queen. It has a water heater to combat tepid water. And it resists vibration on wooden floors better than the Speed Queen.

Electronic Controls: Front-loading Speed Queens have electronic controls, don't they? The cycle dial looks like a cycle selector, not a mechanical timer that advances minute-by-minute like an analog timer.
We ooh-and-ahh over pre-wash or, in the case of Whirlpool, Super Wash options on vintage machines, but transfer that option to a modern front-loader and it's suddenly a worthless gimmick.

We need to get past the notion that every machine save for the Speed Queen is an unreliable, gimmicky piece of crap. I had a 2002 Frigidaire front-loading plastic piece of crap that washed 7-9 loads per week for over 8 years with not one single repair issue. It cost around $600. Not $1600, like a Speed Queen.
[this post was last edited: 9/25/2013-22:55]

 

[frigilux]

Speed Queen cycles:  You get a one-size-fits-all Normal/Heavy Duty cycle.  No options to increase or decrease wash time to match load-soil conditions.  That's ridiculous for a home laundry appliance that lists for $1600.  That inflexibility is a major drawback in my book.  

 

With my cheap, plastic piece-of-crap 2010 Frigidaire, I can choose from 4 to 74 minutes of wash time, depending on the cycle and/or soil level selected.  Any load from lightly soiled to uber-stained gets customized treatment.  Need a prewash?  No problem: One can be added to the cycle.  Want to start a load in cold water and have it gradually heated to 110 degrees to help remove stains on loads that can't withstand the high temp of a Sanitize cycle?  No problem: Add the Stain Treat option to a cycle. And all this can be done without coming back to the machine to reset controls.   

 

That is what a modern home washer should be able to do.  

 

[this post was last edited: 9/26/2013-05:54]

 

[frigilux]

Washman:  My machine prompts me to "clean washer" every 50 cycles.  Following the analogy you presented above:  Don't you clean your bathtub/shower stall at least once every 50 showers?

 

I completely disagree that any machine offering cycle flexibility or the option for heated water automatically makes it a tool of corporate and/or media propaganda.  I don't lay blame with CNN or Fox News if a manufacturer wants to offer more than a Start button on their washers.

[this post was last edited: 9/26/2013-06:51]

 

[washman]

Well FWIW

SQ is dominate in commercial laundry settings so if their machines were not up to snuff, they would not be there in the first place.

I still stand on the premise that doing laundry has gotten far too complicated and far too many machines are loaded with gimmicks that really don't add useful value.

Still, beyond SQ I would recommend pretty much any old school top loader with the paltry 7 cycles over a modern day whiz bang cheaply made FL today

 

[DADoES]

 
Been involved with toploaders since my born day.

Whirlpool & Kenmore belt-drive units, then Whirlpool & KitchenAid & Kenmore direct-drive.  Had occasion along the way to use a 1960s Kelvinator briefly, an aunt's 1969 Speed Queen, a 1970s GE FilterFlo.  1999 brought a Fisher & Paykel non-eco unit, then 2004 segued into another F&P just 'cause I wanted to update to the latest newfangled super-smart one-button model.

Mid-2008 offered opportunity to obtain a NIB Maytag Neptune TL at a give-away price so I took it for the novelty.  It's a mixed-bag ... does quite well on some kinds of loads, rather much poorly on others.

Late-2008 the Neppy TL crapped-out with a bad clutch (fixed under warranty).  Switched to a 2001 Whirly Calypso, which is the best toploader I've used to date (hear that? screams of outrage from the gallery).

Had opportunity to use a 2005 Whirlpool Duet HT (with water heating) for several months from end of 2012 into 2013.

Still using the Calypso as the daily driver.  The F&P occasionally, the Neppy TL less occasionally.

If I had to buy a new washer today, it'd be a frontloader of some brand/model of the Whirlpool family, with water heating.

 

[pulsator]

GO WHIRLPOOL CALYPSOS!!!

I totally agree, I've yet to see a topload washer perform better than a Calypso! I miss mine dearly and would KILL to get my hands on another one!!!

 

[frigilux]

Agreed: I thought the Calypso's bouncing plate agitation was more effective than an impeller. But for whatever reason, those went the way of the dinosaur. Too bad they didn't find solutions for whatever the problem was. The big waterfall water recirculation dousing the bouncing clothes seemed pretty efficient.

Washman: There are certainly a lot of specialty cycles I find silly and have no use for---and front-loaders seem especially prone to having these. Here are some on my washer: Stuffed Animals (really?); Pet Beds (which is just a normal cycle with an extra rinse); Active Wear (my gym clothes can't be washed with everything else?); Jeans (a slow spin for jeans? no thanks)

These are my go-to cycles: Heavy Duty (can add Allergy option); Normal; Delicate; Sanitize; Casual (perm press). I use water heat options quite often, so I don't file them in the gimmick category. I also use the Steam option regularly. My washer doesn't actually produce steam; it provides an 18-minute first rinse in 125 degree water, then a warm final rinse. Items emerge very warm after final spin, just like the good old days. I love that option for sheets and bath towels.

[this post was last edited: 9/26/2013-12:22]

 

[kb0nes]

Eugene, indeed there are a lot of other machines out there and they aren't without their merits. The Speed Queen products are heavily built and kinda crude overall as their commercial heritage might predict. In today's market (not 10years ago) the SQ products at least hold the appearance of having a significant durability edge. They also generally have better factory warranty coverage and potential for parts availability after 10 years. Any quality machine today may well give a nice long service life, the problem is we won't know for 10 years or so.

I have never been one to eschew electronic controls, if fact I hope to never again buy a new appliance that is hindered by old mechanical controls. There is so much versatility to be gained as well as the potential for greater reliability from electronic control (if built well). The ease and low cost of adding cycles and features is both a benefit and a detriment. Being able to custom define the cycles is great, but I disagree with adding features for the sake of marketing. In the old HiFi world I used to rate components by BWPD, Bells & Whistles per Dollar. With enough added glitz and flashing lights, an otherwise unremarkable product becomes a world beater in the eyes of uninformed buyers.

I would really like the Speed Queen to have a heater. But I suspect I will get by fine without one. And I can do so with a machine I suspect will last longer then most other products made today.

 

[frigilux]

Phil, if Speed Queen's front-loader had more options for its three cycles---and a water heater---there would be one in my laundry room by the end of the day. If I preferred top-loaders, there would have been an AFN52F (like Washman's) in my laundry room four years ago.

It's not that I want their front-loader to have more cycles; just more flexibility within the ones it has. And given their electronic controls, there's no reason that can't easily be done without adding to the cost of the machine. After all, as you mentioned, that's the advantage of electronic controls.

Given some flexibility, Speed Queen's Normal/Heavy Duty, Perm Press, and Delicate cycles are really all one needs. Maybe an automatic pre-wash would be nice, as well.

I applaud Speed Queen's build quality and am the first to acknowledge theirs are the most solidly-built washers in the US. I give them credit for their warranty, as well. This doesn't mean, however, that machines from every other brand disintegrate after two years. [this post was last edited: 9/26/2013-13:17]

 

[henene4]

Well, what I thought about would be a more uncommon way to get real hot water, but why don't you just get one of these hot-water-by-flowing-through-things, connect it between cold tap and inlet and if you need a extra hot wash, just turn it to the desired temp or just to get warm rinses?

 

[foraloysius]

Let's not forget that Speed Queen once had a model with a heater. Unfortunately they stopped making it.