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The Staber uses no more or less electricity than any other frontloader without a heater. It wasn't developed for off-grid households, however it kinda found a market there. Staber has been trying to break into the commercial and domestic mainstream market, but their company is too small and their marketing too weak to beat out the big three. Pitching their wears to small eco-friendly niche catalogs targeted to tree huggers is one way they have tapped into a market. OTOH, they have appeared at several international cleaners and launderers trade shows only to be ignored. They are laying low, relying on word of mouth and niche marketing, and probably doing very well for themselves.
 
alarm alarm redneck alert

Excuse me!
"I can hardly believe the number of people in the US not electrificated decently..."

Some of us decide that there is merit in using less electricity. Instead of using a lazy, wasteful lifestyle some of us recognize that the average westerner uses way more energy than their fair share. We take steps to reduce our impact on the environment by choosing renewable energy sources and reducing the amount of electricity we consume.

My house, my lifestyle is very "decently electrificated" thank you.

Why are people who try to be more environmentally responsible denigrated as "tree huggers?"

Surely people can make a different choice to you without you feeling threatened by their different choices and having to criticize or put them down?

Chris.
 
Who's threatened? Boilwash lives across the pond. He probably is just going on what he is seeing and hearing and coming to some inaccurate conclusion, that and being strongly biased towards internal heaters in washers.

Who's threatened? You had a good post about lifestyle up until the "Why" line. Keep it on the washers, please.
 
Hey, wait a minute.....

My English may not be perfect, but I have not offended or put down anyone !
I was only wondering about the drawbacks of the Staber.
If I wouldn`d have ANY experience myself with American washers, detergents and so on I would never dare to criticize and keep my mouth shut.
 
One of the good things about the Staber is that there are very few electrical/computer components to it. I believe the timer is electro-mechanical, and I don't think there is a motor control board or fancy lid lock. It seems like it's the computer components of modern washers that give the problems, flashing error codes and needing a good hardboot to reset properly. The other thing that seems to tie up modern washers is the number of sensors on them, especially the spin/out of balance sensors and any oversudsing sensors. So the electronics are sensitive and the sensors are sensitive, and if you look at the machine funny, it might not work. I think the Staber solved all that by being a machine, not a computer, so it just does what it is meant to do and probably does it quite well. Seems to me that the problems that people have complained about have not been washability related, rather a mechanical problem that they didn't feel like they wanted to mess with (even tho' they were probably told they would have to do repairs themselves).

That said, there is actually a strong case FOR the Staber...
 
I like MY way better....

Bottom line, boys, is that on a 120v system a 15a wiring/circuit can carry 1,800w +/- MAX.

On 240v the same 15a line/wiring/circuit can carry 3,600 watts, +/- max.

*So you guys have heaters in the washer and we don't. (more powerful).

*You guys have a *plug-and-play* [works on any circuit] electric dryers of 3,500 watts or less, IIRC. (less powerful)

*our dryers have a dedicated 30a line (or use natural gas) so wa CAN go to the approximately 5,600w ours use (more powerful).

Washers and dryers have evolved differently based on the evolution of other systems within our continents including analogous electrical systems and buildng techniques.

We use a hot water fill in appliances in that our fossil-fueled hot-water heaters are more economical that heating water electrically. (we have had gas in larger cities since let's say 1870+/-. My understanding is that there are parts of Europe that did not see natural gas till the 1970's).
Our hot water heaters, even electric ones are *on* constantly. (Less stress on the electrical grid. Our need for air conditioning in many regions is the stress on our electrical system).

In Europe my understading is that there are very many instantaneous-demand heaters. (That may be a stress on the electrical system). Imagine if everyone were to shower at the same realtive time to get ready for work?

I am not judging or criticizing or saying that one is better or worse than the other. Appliances has simply evolved based on other local preferences and ways

IIRC all Euro appliances are (were?) generally 60 cm (24 inches)wide; makes remodeling a bit easier. Here we have 24" (60cm) DW-ers, 27" W&D (68.5cm); 30"(75 cm) cookers and refrigerators that are 24" (60cm) to 36"(90cm) wide.

Like everything else in life, what you are used to is "the right way".

Case in point. My aunt has been living here for 50 years having come from Europe @ 20 y.o. She likes her American window screens and central air-conditiong. She goes to visit relatives and tells us, if you open the windows you die of bugs (no screens) and street noise (including motorcycles) and dust. If you shut them you die of heat. Her European realtives come here and freak out over the supposed cost of cooling and the energy consumed. Both ways of thinking have merit. Again I am not judging.

So let's not criticize each others' ways, but better let's expand our minds and see "how the other half lives".

Love and understanding is like the ocean. Give someone who needs it a cup full, and there is still plenty to go around. (seemingly limitless).

:-0

Ok I will stop preaching now.
 
Toggles, you are so right and I`ve enjoyed your preaching.
Things just developed differently due to different conditions.
In Europe, let`s better say in Germany the large majority of todays homes have gas- or oil-fired water heaters just like you guys have. (Constantly on). Instantaneous Gas heaters are not very popular here and electicity is quite expensive. So you would only find these water heaters in older buildings where modernization cost had to be keept down.
I think the reason for us haveing cold fills only is because cold water slowly heatet up doesen`t set stains.
Of course I understand that a heater in a washer like we have is simply not possible or desireable with a 120V system or for a traditional Toploader. But as a low Wattage booster just in a so called HE machine it surely would do a good job.
Didnt`t mean to be a smart-ass, it`s just that we have about 50 years of experience with the "revolving drum" overhere and I still think the Staber might be disappointing with performance, though it could certainly be a sturdy, good machine.
 
If water heaters are a stress on the European electrical system, is that why people in ......don't like to shower?

If this is the case I'd say it's a a carryover from when bathing was thought to be unhealthy before hot water (and central heating) was plentiful and easy. Getting wet and a draft was thought to cause a cold. Today we know that part of it is from touching the bridge of your nose by your eyes with contaminated hands. (germ entry point).

Europeans are not so fussy with natural body smells. Just an accepted part of nature. But then again they accepts food spoilage as normal too and don't accept half the sh*t we put into our *foods*. Perhaps they know a thing or two.

Cultural imperatives are learned.

As I once said, a beautiful voluptuous stylish French young ladu in a beautiful red dress and a nice hairdo and face turned MY head, (yes MY head). [Who freikin' says miracles don't happen? HA!] So far so good. She lifted her arms (in a spaghetti strap dress to light a cigarette, and her fingers were yellowed, her teeth were black and missing and there was a jungle in her armpits.

Not so good to us. Not a thing wrong there. It's all what you come to expect as normal.

Again a number of facors are involved in every little bit of culture and societal norms that evolve.

My hunch is that over the smell of wine and cigarettes B.O. is barely noticable. (LOL)
Sorry to digress.
 
.....mh...

Ok, ladies and gentlemen. Weren't we talking about Staber Washers? It's not absolutely my duty to keep quite the thread (Robert?)...but looking at it I can only say to all

Please... be quite!

Toggle, perhaps do yo hate Europe? I didn't read so in your words... of course:-)

The entire Atlantic Ocean stays between Europe and America, and the entire Pacific Ocean stays between Europe and Australia and between it and America again... That's a little geography lesson to explane you that the distances very often mean differences, in lifestyle first of all, in the ethnicity, in politicy and economy and in many other aspects...

"Siamo così uguali ma così diversi"
We are so same but so different!

As just you Steve have said, European are so different from American... if we switched our lifestyle I think we would die all...

Just form north/south or east/west everywhere there are differences, imagine from state to state...

Anywhay, we were talking about Staber, weren't we?
I knew, maybe bacause somenone here in the forum told me, that TL v-axis (American) need to be filled with pre-heated water, becasue of the high amount of water, hardly to be heated from a built-in heater running at 110-120V. And that's why generally overthere washers take place as near as possible to the water heater to minimize warm dispersions.

It is differently for FL or TL h-axis(Staber/EUFL), that comnsume very less water than the prevoius we've talked about. Considering that in a tumbling drum you don't need to full fill it with water but a very low level of it it's enough to run it, that's why here (I speak about Italy but I think it was the same in the rest of Europe)it happens the following:

- in the 50s we start producing washers under license of Westinghouse, and they were agitator washers/twin-tubes;

- leaving the Westinghouse license, Italian industries started to produce FL/TL h-axis washers, founding that system effectivly and wastelessly; some of them were called "termograduali" (=thermograduals), because they could been connected both to cold and hot water. That's because at that time here many accumulating-heaters were like American, in the building were centralized and run with carbon or wood!!!! Electricity in the '60 was not so diffuse, so it had to take the advantages of them! Why had you to waste centralized hot water heating your own electrically? That was the aim...

- Starting to enlarge the diffusion of the electricity, those type of wahsers were discontinued! Only-cold-inlet washers have been producing since now from the 60s, because 220 became a standard and the even lower amount of water a washer uses can quitly be heated from an built-in heater running at 2000W.

Now the "termograduali" are appearing again... WHY? Because of the diffusion of solarboard energy! This system let you get hot water accumulating it... Yes, the electricity's becoming too expensive to continue to run appliances for heat (I mean Washers and Dishwashers). Think that solarboard are beeing used to heat swimmingpool water in the Hotels here...on the Alpes LOL!!! What could they do in Sicily then?!?!?!
Even here Istantanean water heater are beeing discontinued, becasue either the gas is becoming expensive!

Well at the end I suppose to be arrived a the solution!

LOW WATER LEVEL = THE WASHERS CAN HEAT BY THEMSELVES
HIGH WATER LEVEL = THE WASHERS FILL DIRECLY HOT WATER

BUT EITHER

ACCUMULATING HOT WATER = APPLIANCES FILL DIRECTLY HOT WATER
ISTANTANEAT HOT WATER = APPLIANCES "HAVE" TO HEAT WATER BY THEMSELVES

UF... I wrote too much! :-)) I think it's enough... Now i just wonder when we could start wash with cold water only... Perhaps when people will stop dirtying clothes we can stop washing...

Good Bye!
Diomede
 
Working in a function with the public I can say that most of my fellow countrymen are bathing every day and using deodorant as well. I don't think water heaters are putting stress on the electrical system, overhere in the Netherlands most water heaters are gas heaters or integrated in the central heating system. In Germany some people have on demand electrical water heaters, but that is no problem for their electrical system, although some of them go up to 27 kW.

I'm surprised that that young French lady had a jungle under her arms. Even I shave there. As a matter of fact today I bought a new body hair trimmer and shaver.

BHT2000.rgb.jpg
 
Foraloysis since your countrymen are taking baths and showers (and possibly saunas), maybe that's why Areva is building the EPR in Finland - need the energy for the sauna!
 

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