Suds Saver Questions

[kenmoreguy89]

@yogitunes Say 30 years and REGULAR washer a things of the p

I do not think it will never happend,too many people would complain about..... "HE" this name makes me laugh....crappies and like stuff cannot compete......

 

[kenmoreguy89]

P.S Why gov standards should change then? If so would be Just a matter of $! This is just a fad in times of crisis trying to improve the selling and of course switching to these New "HE" scam, you know "The news" and everyone knows how persuasive commercials can be and also the idea of save more money possible in these times..........many people who switched to them is totally repented now, there'tre also people happy but you know..."It takes all sorts to make a world"
I Think.....
Gov just follow what brings the $...and a mass switching to "HE" are a lot of $$$ for wich the gov takes his part for making favorable laws to this....

 

[yogitunes]

This could be a fad when it comes to HE machines......theres a lot of people like us who do not like the way a new FLer uses too little water.....

Look back to the 70's when gas prices went skyrocketing, and limited, and actually the same right now, everyone is going to the smaller, fuel efficient cars....but like in the 80's people craved V8 power, and auto makers fed their needs, for some it doesn't matter how much gas it drinks.....its what the people want.......those first generation 4bangers were great on gas, very poor on performance......

the FLers may head that way in a number of years.....they won't go away, TL may make a comeback, and the FLers will be more EFFECTIVE, not water efficient

anything is possible

 

[kenmoreguy89]

But anyway, I think a FL can't, and will never be more effective than TL......that's impossible.

Now they attract the people because of their presumed "efficiency on consumption" and because of massive commercials.....

FL always existed in US, let's remeber the earlier days when manufacturers brought out FL washers....... I know of Philco- Bendix,launderall, combos etc.....
People in US and many other countries of the world like Australia, latin America, part of asia and India (except most of europe) preferred the top loaders agitator washers.....there's not that much to tell about.......
They way how a FL or a TL works on washing is a thing that cannot change that much in the time, tumbling wet clothes vs. agitating and beating clothes through water.... I think the second one for obvious reasons of force majeure performs better and it is an incontrovertible fact....
I cannot give a response to the question why in europe are most the FL washers..... but I can tell you that living in Italy I've seen and tried a lot of FL washers and they never provided laundry as clean as a TL does, Agitator washers are coming out now here as for gas dryers, you cannot find them in the shops but there're many dealers who import them, the average cost for a BOL speed queen or whirlpool is about 1500euros for washer and 1700 for a gas dryer,everyone who try a TL is entuxiast about their "never so clean" laundry! They cost a fortune and who can in these times want to have one of them, and unfortunately crisis being everywhere people who can are not so many, the reason because they does not sell them in shops it is just because the electric companies avoid this as they would be revolutionary on consumption, that's also why most people here always hanged laundry instead of having the privilege and fortune of owning a dryer as italian never knew about gas dryers till now and all dryers were electric (who lives in Italy knows that everything here is mafia strating from the government),TL agitator are much more "HE" than any other FL they sell here because they fill hot water instead of heating themselves with electricity also, and electricity here cost a LOT.... but let's talk about washing results now....
Most part of my friends and neighbors now have a TL washer because they knew TL agitator washers from me, they say they never had a better machine before and their laundry never been so clean...
All this to explain how things can be absurd.....

[this post was last edited: 12/3/2011-11:24]

 

[ronhic]

Freddy...

...where would you like me to start?

 

I've yet to meet a European who would swap a European front load or front load action, top load machine for an American style top loader to be used as their everyday machine.

 

The biggest problem with American front load machines is their short cycles. When you reduce one of the essentials for cleaning (time/chemical/water), you need to increase one or both of the others.....

 

Personally, I'd take my non-lint producing, low water using, high spinning, 'no need to soak/bleach because I do profile washes' cleaning power European front load machine over pretty much anything that the US produces and so do millions of Australians, Europeans and other nationalities. There are good reasons why other countrys don't buy many American goods compared to the 1950's and 1960's......and cost isn't always the first one.

 

 

[qualin]

Hi Kenmoreguy.

This probably belongs in a separate thread, but I should make something clear.

I've always used top loaders before in the past. Grew up with one, used them in the laundromat when I was single and had one in the house that my wife and I had purchased. Heck, I even bought a replacement top loader when the old Whirlpool we had kicked the bucket.

If you notice closely, a lot of top loaders have a lot of different cycles. In fact, the GE I have has four different speeds, Handwash, Delicate, Casual and Regular. That's practically unheard of in anything but a TOL machine.

The reason why there are so many speeds is because top loaders love to ruin clothes. An agitator which moves too fast for the kind of fabrics you put in it can felt them or ruin them completely.

I've had a top loader completely destroy pillows, (Because my old Whirlpool only had one speed.) I've had comforter slips destroyed because the agitator caught the opening and made it a lot wider and my wife who knits has had her work felted because she accidentally selected the wrong speed and cycle.

Now, I will admit that some of it is user error. It's absolutely crucial with a top loader to select the correct cycle and speed for the fabric.

The big problem is, when you overload a top loader, you can prematurely wear clothing out or damage it and nothing gets washed properly.

I've never had an item of clothing damaged in a front loader. If you overload a front loader, the clothing doesn't get clean, but it won't get damaged either.

I've also personally experienced situations where my clothing got "soap marks" where soap didn't dissolve properly, never had that issue with a front loader.

However, this is going to be my last post on that topic in this thread. If you want to continue this discussion, we can either do it through e-mail (qualin@no$pam.shaw.ca) or we should open another thread.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

To Chris and Bud

I actually know many europeans who want a TL washer!!!
I can tell you that an european FL Takes almost 2 hours to get the job done (even because they have to heat their water) so it's not a matter of time, it's not even matter of water, older models used more water than newer, half of window, but anyway they does not wash clothes as clean as a TL does, my paternal granma had an AEG (400F was the model) and a Ignis topload (tumble washer) it was her first washer, I was not born when she had the Ignis but she talk very bad of that washer, I remeber her laundry with the AEG though, when I was a kid, she always had to pretreat and hand wash laundry before washing, as I must to do when I have to do laundry in a FL, she found it normal to prewash and pretreat laundry before machine washing as many FL owner still find too, while for me it is not!
Then my mama made her know her agitator washer and bought one for her from US in thye 1998, she still have it and it is a Maytag.
Lint.....
First of all, assuming that they are not because of the washing.
I can assure you that the lint amount is the same also, the only thing is that most TL does collect them in filters (which is another good feature of TL) and so you notify of them for that.
While FL always leaves lint into clothes the same way they leave their dirt in them ! And you can see it even more clearly when you do a dark load!
Most of the times when washing with a FL you notify of lint just after drying, in the dryer screen, the dryer screen gets more full when you used a FL instead of TL with a lint filter, my Maytag (that i owned for just 2 years before selling for 900 euros to a very happy lady)had a lint filter too as obviously my Filter-flo have.
And it's absurd that a washer ruin or wear clothes, all depends from the user and from the messes he does, that's normal that if you wash a wool sweater on high speed it gets ruined! But it's not a matter of TL or not, any washer if used uncorrectly have the potential of ruining clothes!
Also,that's another little story, I used a whirlpool FL when I was at a rental house in the mountain who had the bad habit of wearing clothes swipping on the rubber seal and eating sleeves under the drum, it ruined my swetshirt and 2 trousers!
My TL never ruined anything! Just once a wool blanket for wich by mistake I did selected hot water instead of warm.
Detergent marks....
Please don't tell me about detergent marks with a FL, at our's sea house we have a FL and I always have to wash darks by hands because of lint and soap marks on them, the washer is an Hotpoint ariston, we had a Sangiorgio before and it used to do the same things....
Also, I can tell you that a FL have also some speeds not just one, in fact they varies by program to program...ex. a wool cycle will have low wash &spin speed....
Chris, I'm speaking about TL washers not about countries from where they come from, in fact there're australian TL, Brazilian, Indian etc....it's not a matter of american or not.....
Spin speed....a TL can reach the same spin speed as a FL...a 1950s unimatic reach 1000 and more rpm, as like a modern aussie Fisher&Paykel.....
Oh and also, I never had the need to use any bleach or additive with my GE or maytag, or soak ...just detergent and regular cycle does the job!
Remain the fact that I think a washer who tumble packed wet clothes for obvious reasons can't get clothes as clean as a TL does! And using 2 fingers of water also....camon! And then someone tells about rinsing........
Anyway, I used to read a similar matter TL vs. FL on this site time ago and what the people have been able to get out was too funny and scary at the same time....so I do not want to repeat this again....thank you for commenting and expressing your opionion what's matter is that you're happy with what you have.....

[this post was last edited: 12/4/2011-14:25]

 

[ronhic]

Everybodys' experience is different, and you are correct that being happy with what you use on a day-to-day basis is what's important.

 

The last time I used a top-load washer was on holiday in Tasmania - A Maytag in a hotel self serve laundry. It rinsed well, but certainly didn't wash at all well.

 

[DirectDriveDave]

From my experiences, when it comes to residential type washers, TLs have won it for me. Our 1990 Whirlpool DD has gotten stuff out of my clothing that I didn't think would ever come out, and no, I have never had ANY clothing damage with the DD. I have also used Maytags (both Helical and Orbital transmissions), and Speed Queens, and have gotten the same satisfying results.

When I was in college, I used a standard FL washer (Maytag Neptune) and I could not stand it. Even when pretreated properly, some stains I had just refused to come out, once in a while it would get less but would require another wash maybe to fully get it clean. (Yes, I was using proper amount of detergent and other things)

Now on the other hand, in laundromats, the commercial-type FLs did very well. At the end of every year of college, I took my comforter to a laundromat not too far from home, and we always bring them there since they are way too large to fit in a standard residential washer, FL or TL.

And, WOW, I was truly impressed with how they performed. My comforter looked like it had been just made and was brand new. I'm not sure what exactly the differences are between those two types of FLs, but the commercial ones actually get the job done.

 

[yogitunes]

Variables can change a number of outcomes for Commercial Laundromats

a simple TL or FL like the Neptune....single load machines, are usually programmed for the quickest cycle, usually about 30 minutes....time is money...compared to a home machine.....

a Triple-Loading huge FLer cycle runs a little longer, you can't possibly put 3 normal size loads in a machine, and expect them to clean 3 times the size in a 10 minute wash cycle........these machines are great for large bulky items like comforters, and you'll get great results, for the most part a long cycle versus light soil.....

I have advantages with my Neptunes versus a Laundry....I can adjust cycles to each load.....hot water is at 160 degrees.......I can select whitest whites, prewash or presoak, an actual cycle extended stain cycle, plus an extra rinse.......and never have had bad results....a guaranteed clean everytime......compared to a dedicated short cycle, load clothes, and take your chances....

I only use a Laundromat for items that I don't want to place in my home machines, and take a chance of ruining it!

TLers are fun to watch and play with, and for the most part do a nice job....

Flers are, for a better word, efficient on water, detergent, electric.....they tend to be gentler on clothing, but my strong point is the high speed spin...