surgilator and spiralator

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I haven't experienced a suds-lock in ages, even in the 51 Kenmore (with surgilator) but this machine doesn't have a recirculating filter of any kind. When I was using the 63 Kenmore washer (with self-cleaning glass bead filter) it locked up constantly. I wondered after comparing the two machines if it had something to do with the aeration of the detergent & water through the wash cycle as it was constantly pumped through the filter. The wash water seems to be much more "foamy" than without a filter, as if a lot of air is being whipped into the mix. Of course the roto-swirl agitator is also sucking air into the wash-water as well which might give it more fuel for foam...

I used to have suds problems with the large capacity Speed Queens I've had, part of the problem there may have been the size of the outer tub and the spin-tub whipping up more suds and slowing the spin. As of yet, I've never suds-locked a unimatic or the other solid tub machines I have, I guess I haven't tried hard enough!
 
OK Gansky....

Add MORE detergent! Your clothes WON'T come clean without a good layer of suds!....Bob Wirth confirms it, and so does my Mom. So I'm convinced! I can tell you from my experience that I've suds locked everything I own.......OK....Steve....not a WORD!!!LOL Mark
 
Might it be because with the neutral drain the tub can take of to spin and accellerate quicker than a spin drain machine, thus sucking more air through the load to create a suds lock condition, as opposed to a solid tub that just flattens the load against the tub wall?
 
Could be, Peter, but I've had suds-locks in a 1-18 (spin drain) - which also can really aerate the water a lot to make mounds of foam. The 1-18 has a great spray rinse that helps to knock it down quickly though so it's not as severe as I've had in some WP/KM's.

I'll bet it's just the right combination of ingredients, in any machine, that causes the suds-lock condition. Perhaps if we had a crystal ball dryer like that concept Hamilton, it could tell us!
 
Suds lock was a rare occasion out here...

...Mom's '64 LK and Granny's '68 KM just didn't have suds lock problems, regardless of load type or the amount of suds. One possibility is that the water out here is hard--16 grains/gal--but even after my mom bought a water softener and switched to soap, suds lock just wasn't a problem.

I've semi-suds locked my Hotpoint on a couple of occasions, but that was with a full inner tub of water, a very small load and a lot of detergent. What seems to happen is that the inner tub will drain so quickly that the outer tub can get "overloaded" and the sediment tub will whip up a tidal wave in the cabinet. It doesn't last more than the 20 to 30 seconds it takes to get most of the water pumped out.

BTW, the 3 speed KM/WP and LK's (belt driven) used 3/4 hp motors (that is, on high speed, since they are constant torque) that were necessary to get the requisite 1/3 hp on the extra slow speed.
 
1962 Whirlpool = FREQUENT suds-lock. Standard capacity, brush filter.

1976 Whirlpool = RARELY suds-lock. 18# capacity, self-clean filter.
 
Oh lawdddd-------

I didn't mean to stir the damn pot this much!

I think it would be awfully hard to duplicate the exact conditions from the old days because:

The water comes from a different source/s(?).
The water is treated with (different) chemicals.
The formulaes of the detergents have changed MANY times since then. Tide and Cheer especially!
Even when using vintage detergents who knows how stable those chemicals are and how they might have changed while sitting on the shelves all these years. I can't answer that. I just think it would be hard to duplicate what I experienced fourty something years ago. (Toggle don't go there!).

So anyway, I just throw this out for discussion. No hard feelings towards Robert were intended----we just agree to dissagree!
 
Yes I couldn't agree more Steve it would be awfully hard to duplicate the exact conditions from the old days, certainly no hard feelings going either way.
 
A suds lock on a solid tub machine seems hard to imagine,but never thought a Filter-Flo with a perforated tub would suds lock with the huge outer tub they have either....But I've done it to mine a few times.

Very sorry Eugene.I must have read something in your post that was not really there.

One detergent that would be capable of suds-locking any machine,even a Unimatic,would be TIDE With CONCRETE. Do they have that in your stores yet? liquid only,of course. LOL!
 
Rick, I was just telling Gansky I remembered how high sudsing Cheer used to be. I remember someones Filter-Flo just vomitting huge quantities of suds over the side-------and oy the suds-lock!
 
This is such a very interesting thread. I was just reading one of the other threads about GE agitators and it made me wonder about the surgilator.

One question i would like to ask to anyone who has used both the classic surgilator and the straight vane agitators WP/KM used in the early 50's. Does the Surgilator's "undulated" vanes clean or provide better roll-over than the regular straight vanes from that family?

Did these wavy agitators actually make much more of a difference?

Thanks.
 
The surgilator is a staight-vane that just looks really cool

Speaking objectively and as an engineer, I can see no hydro-dynamic reason that the surgilator would perform better (or worse) than an otherwise equivalent sized straight vane. IMO, it is more of a stylistic mark for Whirlpool.

There are real differences between different catagories of agitators (e.g., ramp, straight, spiral, etc..) I recently compared a spiralator type to a super roto-swirl on the same machine and I was surprised by the results. Stay tuned... Same Bat channel... I will post the results soon.

None the less, I really enjoy reading the rather romanticized reports of activation, agitation and appliances in general.
 
Very interesting!! Greg finally convinced me about a month ago to order a nylon hex drive block on RepairClinic, and I've been using the black bakelite Surgilator that Don S. sent me ages ago in the Frankenmore. While not as perfect cosmetically as Rick's, it is an EXCELLENT agitator and gets the job done! Jeans, towels, sheets, you name it, whatever I throw in there will effectively circulate! I prefer the "undulated" vanes of the Surgilator as they tend to Smackulate better and are more fun.

As for the Kenmore agitators...while I think the old Dual-Action is great, I wish Kenmore had an effective 1-piece agitator as well for their BD 18-pounders...why they didn't equip those with the Super Roto-Swirl is beyond me. I previously had one in the Frankenmore, and it's a good agitator (it can handle a large quilt/blanket with ease), but isn't too good with jeans. However, that damn Penta-Vane is the absolute worst 18 lb. agitator I've seen...what a JOKE. While the action will surprise you on small/medium loads, load it full with a high water level and there's hardly any turnover. Jeans, quilts, or blankets? Forget it...it can barely handle a full towel load! I only caught a few glimpses of a Penta-Swirl agitator in action, but with the curved vanes it might be better.

Regarding suds-lock--with the exception of the WO-65-2, I always have a bottle of fabric softener on hand when the load turns abnormally sudsy!! Oddly enough I haven't had any trouble with the Frankenmore, but the 1-18 and GE slow down considerably and take a good spray rinse (and even the deep rinse on some occasions) to clear all of the suds out. What's interesting is, the 2003 Dependable Care Maytag that I outfitted with a Power-Fin agitator NEVER suds-locks, even with all of that Mexican detergent on a small load. While it takes a spray rinse to get it pumping the suds out again, the tub always gets up to full spin speed.

--Austin
 
I shoved a truly HUGE load into the 1976 18# Whirlpool a few times, 2/3 to 3/4 full when wet after drain. There was still sufficient rollover with its Super Surgilator.
 
DADoES----

You stirred a memory----back in the late 60's the Cherokee Club here in Atlanta had a Whirly 18# set in their poolhouse for towels. Towards the end of the day the attendants would get real busy trying to wash, dry and fold everything for the next day---and were always in a hurry to get off of work.

They constantly just packed those poor Whirly's. I knew all those folks anyway, so they thought nothing of me snooping around those machines, and I saw many a tub 3/4 or MORE full of towels as the water was pumped out! It was always interesting when the machine shifted into spin------about four seconds of silence followed by a low moaning noise, and then, of course----suds-lock. Just too much water being spun out in that shallow outer tub for the machine to handle all at once. AND they used All detergent at that----always in a 100# tan industrial drum with a big Lever Bros. label (I would love to have one now!).

Surprisingly, I remember those same machines were still there five or so years later, but by then were making some very loud moaning noises in protest of their years of abuse!
 
When I went from the '60 KM (Roto-Swirl agitator) to the '85 Whirlpool (Super Surgilator w/wings at the base), I was intrigued by the big difference in sound during agitation. The Roto-Swirl made a macho "ha-RUMPH, ha-RUMPH" sound with a full load, while the Surgilator made a much lighter "splish-splash" sound. Both had very good turnover.
 
Westy -

While there are people here who will swear by the Penta-Swirl, when you look at the two Pentas side by side, I can't see there is that much a difference except the Swirl is more handsome. The swirls are there more for decoration, but the bottom fins are thicker with a curved/sloped valley between.

My first experience with the Penta-Swirl was in the hospital I did volunteer work at while in high school. Sterile Supply replaced their '68 Rollermatic with a KM. I thought the capacity was great, but the wash action sucked.
 
Intelligent Maytag?

We have a LA511 Maytag washer with the turquoise filter agitator. I sudslocked it a few times, and i'm sure other family members doing laundry have as well. But it's never really been an issue.
The machine seems to take care of it by itself and recover from sudslock. Under normal conditions in Regular wash, it will do a 60 sec. spin-spray. However when it sudslocks and doesn't get up to full speed, it's as if the washer senses the lock condition. Therefore, i've monitored the machine several times staying in spin-spray for sometimes up to 4 minutes, spraying the suds down while trying to spin. Then once the tub gets to full speed, it procedes with the cycle.

Is this a feature? I know this is a machine from the early 80's, where they that intelligent back then? Do modern machines do that too?
 
Suds lock causes the drive belt to "slip" and slow down the spinning tub. This is Maytag's "clutching" mechanism that slips the belt until the water is pumped out of the tub, then the belt tightens and brings the tub up to top speed.The motor carriage moves inward to slip the belt. Adding diluted fabric softener to the bottom of the tub will break up suds better than additional spray rinses.
 
Motor protection switch cutout can also be caused by low voltage condition. The low voltage condition might be caused by loose, tarnished, or corroded electrical connections. Examples might be corroded plug/outlet prongs, tarnished copper wiring, loose wiring, etc.

My vintage Waste King garbage disposal occasionally goes through motor cutout problems, without jamming. Simply pulling the plug, and re-inserting it firmly, resolved the problem.
 
I take it all back

Apparently low voltage (at least not from the power cord) isn't the problem with my Waste King. It's continuing to trip the reset switch in the middle of low or no load testing.

So I'm thinking the bearings have gone out, or something else that requires removal tear-down.

At that point I'm inclined to pop a new one in there. I can always move the Waste King out to the patio kichen (which currently has none) if it turns out to be repairable.
 

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