Swedish Electrolux EWC-1350 help needed...

[bellalaundry]

Hi guys...yesterday I picked up one of these supposedly new in the box.

Very cute size, 3 kg, easy to move around! So when I unpacked it, and went to remove the shipping bolts, they were already removed (I'm glad I moved it upright). So I looked in the back of the detergent drawer and did notice a little detergent residue.

So I read the manual and set it up and pluged it into my 220v line (the one I use for other orphan European washers) and followed the instructions to get it going.

Well it won't go. I set the programme, then set the spin speed, then press power button. The light that tells you that the wash is done (flashing light) just flashes. No door lock, no water, no sounds...

I guess I know why they wanted to get rid of it. Do the flashes indicate errors? It does flash 11 times and then rests before repeating.

Dissapointed, but not giving up! Maybe it needs a control board? Any help or suggestions are appreciated.

The pic is a generic.

Guy

 

[thomasortega]

I just asked a colleague to find me the service manuals for it... I'll keep you posted.

 

[bellalaundry]

Thank you,

Thanks alot! I forgot...didn't you work for Electrolux at one time?

Don't you just hate when people sell you things that are not easily tested, but don't work?

Guy

 

[dj-gabriele]

I bet that could happen because it is designed for 220/240V - 50 Hz and not 60 Hz. If the machine is even only partly electronic, it will get seriously messed up!
And at best, the motor and pump will overheat and run faster than normal.

Plus the 220V feed from a North American supply (unless you have something different) are phase to phase and not phase to neutral, that also might be a problem for the machine to handle

Oh, BTW, that machine there is on sale here for 634€ if you want a new one eheheh

 

[bellalaundry]

Oh, oh...

Well as far as I can tell, the machine is totally electronic. I don't have any trouble with the other AEG I have, but it is totally mechanical.

I had no idea that the 50/60 hertz would affect the electronics. I realized the motor and pump would work slightly faster, but it wasn't going to be a daily driver.

My electrician has wired a special outlet that I can use my 220v stuff (a couple of vacuums and a washer). I just never thought that circuit boards would care about the hertz.

Guy

 

[thomasortega]

I got the results...

You got issues.

This machine's board works strictly on 50Hz.

Actually, it's not a malfunction. The machine is working great as designed. The board has an internal protection system to prevent consumers that insist on connecting them to the wrong voltage/cycle.

Replacing the board won't help too.

Maybe, with lots of lucky, i can ask my colleagues to let me get a 127v 60hz board for it, but you'll have to replace the motor, drain pump, door lock and water inlet solenoids too.

This machine is great and I also found they cute. The previous version is even more interesting and fun to use.

Electrolux tested it to launch in Brazil after the world crisis made all of the european export taxes drop like a ton of lead. Unfortunately the brazilian government increased the import taxes to protect the local industry and the idea had to be stored in the freezer.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Oh wow! This is the machine I've been looking for!!!!

bellalaundry:
There are a few options you can do here:
1.refit the machine
2.either buy or build a frequency converter
3.buy a 12VDC to 220VAC 50Hz inverter

Just make sure the inverter you get is big enough

http://www.ebay.com/itm/900WATT-12V...170?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2562859f3a

 

[dj-gabriele]

Bellalaundry:

remember that your machine is self-heating so if you're going to connect it with an inverter or rotary converter, you need one that can supply at least 2500 VA, otherwise as soon as the machine will turn on the heater it will blow out your frequency converter!

Honestly except the novelty factor you're not losing anything. Electrolux machines aren't that great as one can think!

 

[bellalaundry]

Well,

from where I stand now, I think I like the sound of Supreme's idea of getting a power inverter (I had no idea these things existed!)

So after looking at the link, I am wonding where do I get the 12 volt power supply from? I am fine spending the extra cash for the inverter, but what else do I need to get? Do I have to have a car battery in the laundry room??!!

Since I'm already in $250 dollars on the machine, I just have to get it going for a least a while!

Thomas...I must be one of those customers that Elux is talking about!

Thanks all, I really thought I may have ended up with a 50 kg door stop!

Guy

 

[dj-gabriele]

Inverter

Guy: don't even think using that inverter on the link with the washing machine, you need the power of three of those to run the washer! Unless you're going to deactivate the heater in the machine (but then, being electronic, it will refuse to progress the cycle) it will blow the inverter in no time.

I told you, you need at least a 2500VA frequency converter! (VA is the analogous of Watt for apparent power)

 

[bellalaundry]

Thanks for

the warning. I found a 2000 watt inverter on Ebay. But I intend on using it with my laundry room faucet, and setting the temperature at the tap (always warm or hot). Then I would set the machine to a 30c wash.

The machine is labeled as 1600 watts not including the heater.

Guy

 

[brummybear]

110v 60hz to 220-240v 50hz step up transformers.

Hello there,

it is quite possible to step up the voltage from 110v 60hz to 220v 50hz. I do not know about the price but thort this link might be usefull.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Transformer_Index/UK_to_USA_Converter/index.html

 

[brummybear]

Rating plate,

Could I have a pic of the rating plate please.

 

[bellalaundry]

Hi

Eean! Thanks for chiming in. I looked at the link you provided, and could not find one that you could switch to 50hz. I think those are for using on items that are not so dependent of hz, indicated by the 50/60 hz label reading.

I have found this one, now I have to fiqure out how to get the 12v supply to it!

Guy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120800315307?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

 

[supremewhirlpol]

yeah the above link only steps up the voltage. There is nothing in that device that changes the frequency. If you want to operate the inverter you can use a car battery charger. It can't be the small dinky ones, as the bigger inverters like you are looking at purchasing need a good amount of current, especially at 12VDC. You need something like what is in the link below.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...ty-612-volt-battery-chargerstarter-67855.html

 

[bellalaundry]

Holy Cow!

that 12v power supply looks HUGE!

I calculated that at 220v supply and 1600watts for the machine, that comes out to 5.7 amps.

So...wouldn't the attached link 12v power supply be okay?

Guy

http://www.amazon.com/Pyramid-13-8-Volt-Cigarette-Lighter-Adapter/dp/B0002BA57A/ref=pd_cp_e_1

 

[dj-gabriele]

Nope!

You need a power supply of at least 1600/12/0,8 = 167 Amps (to say the least!)

You need to factor 1600W at 12 V (133 amps)
Plus the power lost in the inverter and reactive power of the motor (I choose a coefficient of 0,8)

I told you. To be safe you need something capable of running a 2500VA load.
You'd have to search for a 220V-60Hz to 220V-50Hz frequency converter but those things cost quite a bit of money.

The easiest thing would be to use a switchable (or 50Hz) diesel generator that gives real sine wave 50Hz power and not the "rectified" sinusoidal (almost a square wave) that those wimpy inverter do.
The one I'm showing you in the link would be perfect for your application and it will be able to run any load indefinitely up to 2,4 kW (in fact any plug in appliance!)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2400-Watt-G...07848188?pt=BI_Generators&hash=item35b74263fc

 

[dj-gabriele]

I calculated that at 220v supply and 1600watts for the machi

How do you do that? It's not correct.

It is 1600W / 220V = 7,3 A

And please, just to make it sure you don't blow anything, could you post the rating plate? The data I gathered from electrolux differs from the one you gave us.

 

[cfz2882]

motor

what kind of motor does this washer use?if it's anything other than an induction
motor directly run from the mains,line HZ shouldn't matter-just need to figure a
way to fool the control electronics into thinking it's running 50hz...

 

[brummybear]

generator and battery

The generater would be the best option as a 12v car battery would only last minits as sutch a high load.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

inverters whimpy? really? depends on what you are trying to power with it, the quality of the inverter, where it is made, what you paid for it. Maybe bellalaundry is in over his head with the conversion. If that is the case, maybe you should stop this project while you are ahead? It would be great if you posted what the power requirements are for this machine. We don't know if this machine will with a different wiring/electricity configuration, as some foreign device require leg + neutral and not just leg + leg.

 

[bellalaundry]

Absoulutely

over my head.

Guy

 

[ronhic]

Just as an aside, if you do go down the inverter/generator route you'll be able to have just about any modern European or Australian appliance you like from anywhere you can get it.....

 

Australian domestic appliances run 230V @ 10 amp maximum....

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Guy/bellalaundry:
What's your next move? Maybe us members here can maybe simplify things for you?

 

[launderess]

Power Generators and Inverters

Went through this with my Pfaff ironer early on (requires 3.05 kW/50hz @ 220v/50hz).

Unit runs on 60hz well enough and was designed to be sold/used all over the world so *whatever* 220v power source (American 2 wire vs European 1 wire system and so forth)will power the unit. There is even a method of adjusting the speed of the roller to compensate for changes that would occur when using the unit in either 50hz or 60hz situations.

As for voltage both our Miele repairman, Miele's technicans and our electrican explained the rules.

For things such as washing machines and other appliances with large motors, heating requiremnts etc one needs a converter at least *twice* to *three* times the maximum load. Otherwise one will simply burn out the unit which should ever exceed using 1/3 to 1/2 of it's rating.

In the USA the largest units sold for domestic use top out at around 10,000 watts or more and *must* be hardwired into an outlet.

The problem with washers,dryers and other items with heaters that draw high amounts of power is that they can do so for sustained periods. Think about a washer heating cold tap water to 140F or even 195F. That is going to require some time. If the unit is plugged into the proper rated electrical socket this isn't a problem. However running such a thing off a converter and or inverter means that unit must work very hard for a very long time. This could create conditions leading to an electrical fire. If nothing else using a unit that is under powered for the job will simply cause it to burn out before it's time.

If you really want a headache, pipe:

[this post was last edited: 11/27/2011-01:35]

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_9/7.html

 

[qualin]

That leads me into a question then..

Would something from either one of these two companies do the job?

http://www.advancedpowercontrols.com/eafa3.htm

http://www.50hz.com/Solid/solid.html#50

I bet you'd need at least 3kVA to be safe, right?

 

[dj-gabriele]

using 1/3 to 1/2 of it's rating

Not really! If the inverter is not Chinese crap it will sustain its rated load indefinitely so a 2kVA inverter will supply a 2kVA load indefinitely.

Maybe the technician from Miele was thinking about surge currents like when motors switch from washing to spinning. If that is the case consider that the motor is usually in the 300/400 Watts range and an inverter used on a washer has to sustain at least a load of 2500Watts so there's no problem in handling a surge current from such a small motor.

The heater, on the other hand, being a 100% resistive load, once connected, will "burn" always the same current regardless of where it is connected and the waveform or frequency supplied.

@qualin

Yup, one of those two inverter can do the job nicely. The 3kVA one will supply nicely any domestic European appliance and some more but I guess that the price will be way higher than that of the washing machine!

Anyway, because of the cost and ability to sustain surge currents better than the solid state type I'd say that the diesel generator is a better idea. It's also easier to find a used one, just remember that the output should be 220/240V at 50Hz of course and that the sustained current must be of at least 10A! So you should be in the 2300/2500 VA range

 

[launderess]

Chinese C**P Converters

They are all pretty much the USA market has when it comes to step-up/step-down converters. There are some better versions on the market, these are sold to those who know and or for such bodies as the federal government including the military, embassy staff and such. Such units though tend to be *very* expensive and again if one is going at or >5kW should if not must be hardwired.

Motors and *surge currents*, yes that came up with Miele and others. Even using an appliance such as my ironer that has a motor can cause problems. Constant stopping and starting one was told would stress an improperly sized converter.

 

[bellalaundry]

The

quicker I can get rid of this, the faster I can move onto another project! My partner is quietly unhappy and I know there is a lesson in this for me!

I am lucky though, I still have a top load H-Axis AEG Lavamat that is totally mechanical and I can play with from time to time!

Guy

 

[supremewhirlpol]

gabriele:
From a practical perspective the Chinese ones do still serve their purpose as they are made to be used on light loads, or every once in a while. They a made cheap, and are cheap to buy. If you need one for a one use, emergency deal, it's the way to go. The output is not as clean. If want something with a cleaner output, you get a true sine-wave unit. The cost is significantly more, but better output. From what you say it sounds like you are looking for a long-term solution. One could purchase a frequency converter, but it would require hard-wiring it. The generator is more of a long-term solution, but not everyone has the space, or ability to maintain it. Solid-state power electronics in general are not as able to stand up to abuse are their counter parts. As long as people who use these devices keep that in mind, they should have no problem.

bella: maybe you could put it on ebay?