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myths and reality

Obviously, any time water is churning, there is going to be some amount of "suds".
I don't recall anyone every saying that there are no suds; what is true is that the normal level of sudsing which US detergents designed for TLs produce is very much too high for FLs.
Compared to standard US products, HE detergents produce nearly no suds. Thus my statement that sudsing is a bad bad thing. No doubt, if one were looking for something to find fault with, one could critize my remarks as being generalizations. I write in the knowledge that the other people in this forum know considerably more than I do and thus it is not necessary to categorically exclude every possible misinterpretation.
Modern detergents, regardless of their country of origin, do not need to produce suds in order to clean. It has been frequently mentioned here in the fora that the housewives of the early syndet era "missed" sudsing and so it was "added" back in.
MRX' advice is well worth following. Of course, one thing for US users to note: we tend to wash in hotter water here in Europe than you do, so it would be a good idea to run a really hot load every so often to kill or reduce any mold and "gunk" buildup. It is also necessary to leave the door slightly ajar or you will have mold.
And, yes, there is a big note "Vorsicht! Katze!" on both the dryer and the washer...
 
HE detergents CAN generate some appreciable sudsing, but it's a lightweight foam that dissipates quickly when the water action stops. I've had that happen with Tide HE in my Calypso. HE can also be overdosed. I ran a single new shirt in my F&P (to freshen it for wearing the next night), purposely used Arm & Hammer Essentials which is a "green" plant-based soap formulation, not touted as HE but sudsed very little the other times I've used it. I used about 1/4 of the measuring cap, which clearly was too much as I found a 4-inch layer of suds after the first drain leading into the first deep rinse.
 
So Far So Good

So far everything has been running fine. I did have to remove the bottom panel to tighten up a loose bolt that made the front left of the machine vibrate somewhat violently during spins. Now it is as quite as can be.

I have been using Tide HE liquid detergent with Febreze in it. I am only filling the small cup to Line 1. Washing heavy clothing like towels requires a second wash ot get all the soap out. Maybe I should use less that the Line 1 marking on the cup.
 
Detergent and other tips

Hi BTJustice,

Congratulations with your new 2140. I have had the same washer for 15 trouble free months and counting.

I agree with the need for HE detergent. By the way, Kirkland detergent is HE rated and is available in a free/clear formulation (no dyes) or one with fragrance. For what it's worth, Consumer Reports recently rated Kirkland as high as Tide HE for cleaning power, and it's much lower priced.

I am still using up a large bottle of All Free/Clear and a second unused one of Tide HE before trying Kirkland. In 15 months, I have used up one large bottle of All, one of Tide HE, now I'm on All #2 and the second Tide HE is sitting on a shelf in the garage, unused. Basically, two bottles took me through a year, running about five loads a week.

I generally use 1/4 to 1/3 of the provided measuring cup (we're talking about the big container with the spigot that includes a free measuring cup. If you cannot rinse out the suds even with Extra Rinse, cut down on your detergent. Ideally, you should see no foam or just a little clear light foam on the door when you are done washing. The smallest amount of detergent that gets your clothes clean is best.

A few other tips:

1. I don't even use the dispenser. Not at all. If you pour liquid detergents into it, eventually it gums up and you have to clean the damn thing with a toothbrush. Instead, I simply place the cup with the detergent in it on top of the clothes. The dispenser simply drains the detergent into the tub, without any delay, so I keep the dispenser clean. When the wash is done, the cup is nicely rinsed out. I learned this trick from European friends who have used FLs from Day One.

2. No bleach, as others have mentioned.

3. WIPE OUT THE DOOR GASKET at the end of the wash day. Use a small towel or sock and throw it in with your last dryer load of the day. I understand that they improved the 2140 by placing drain holes at the bottom of the gasket. My model does not have the drain holes. Even if you DO have the holes, it is good practice to wipe the crease dry to avoid mold buildup.

4. Leave the door ajar to allow the machine to dry out. I've never seen anyone in Europe ever keep the door closed, they all leave it ajar.

5. Water will siphon through the dispenser whether you use it or not. I often find a little water in the bleach section of the dispenser. I leave the dispenser door open between washes to keep it dried out.

I live in Southern California, my laundry is in the garage, and the garage faces due south. So it is not unusual for the temperature to top 90 F in the garage on hot summer days. Even with this adverse environment, I have had no mold or odor issues by following this regimen.

About two months ago, another reader with a 2140 posted a piece on how to remove the dark lens, so you can see inside the washer better as it's running. I saved the article and can mail it to you upon request, or post it here.
 
I measured out 1/4 of a cup of detergent and poured it back into the Tide HE cap. It comes to Line 2 on the cap. I assume I am using 1/8 of a cup of HE detergent since I fill it to Line 1.
 
With the towels using Tide HE detergent filled to Line 1 on the cap and the tub about 3/4 full, I have to run a second full wash cycle to get all the soap out of the towels.

Before washing this second load of towels, I ran a rinse cycle to see if the towels still had soap in them. There were no suds.

I have to assume that the towels still have soap in them from the first wash. I doubt the soap is coming from what may be left in the tub.

On the next load of towels, I will try to fill the HE cap halfway to Line 1 and see what happens but that will have to wait for a few days as all of my towels have now been washed, lol.
 
detergent

I never fill the cup up to the "1" mark. Usually no more than 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up to the "1" mark. Next load fill it to 1/2 way up to "1" and see what happens. You should have clean clothes and little to no suds.
 
Line number one is the max I use for very dirty large loads. Usually I fillit to 1/2 to 3/4 to line 1. What does bleach do to FL's? I only use it for whites, but I will stop using it if it is hurting my machine.
 
Evidently it eats up the aluminum "spider", that is what people here have posted. I just use a Hot Water wash (machine empty, no soap) once a month. About every four months I add some Lime Away (half bottle) and run it on hot (always allow the machine to fill, stop it momentarily and then add the Lime Away). Keeps calcium buildups to a minimum.
 
European washing machines are designed/buit with componets that cannot in theory witstand repeated use of high LCB. According to Miele, it is not just the stainless steel, but some plastic parts as well. Bosch had in it's warrany for the original smaller units that sold in the United States, that use of chlorine bleach would void the lifetime warranty on the wash tubs.

Europeans in general do not use LCB for laundry, prefering hot or boiling water along with oxygen bleaches, so this never presented a problem. It was only when European frontloaders began to arrive on these shores in great numbers that their makers faced problems. The main problem being that Americans are wedded to chlorine bleach as they are to red meat! *LOL*

Slowly Bosch, then even Miele saw the light and now most European front loaders sold on this side of the pond allow the use of LCB. A dispenser has even been provided for same. Amercian front loaders such as those made by Whirlpool and Electrolux have long had bleach dispensers.

Thing to notice is that in most cases outer tubs have become plastic instead of stainless steel, and or warranties for tubs and certian other parts are no longer life time in some cases. One wonders if this is partly in response to the preceived damage LCB will cause over time.

L.
 
I should be a test-case for the effects of liquid chlorine bleach on front-loaders; I use LCB in 4-5 loads each week---two loads of kitchen/personal whites, a BobLoad® of white bath towels and two loads of white bed linens.

My 5-1/2 year old Frigidaire FL'er is showing no signs of trouble. (Now, if that statement wasn't a silver-platter invitation for superstitous trouble, I don't know what is, LOL!)
 
It is

Eugene, it is. The spider is made of aluminum and is deteriorating in the chlorine bleach.
From what I have read and seen, the marketing departments and young-dynamic-managers just added the dispensers for the US market without changing a thing.
When I talked to the repair department at Lowe's in Loveland this February, they told me it is their only remaining "predictable" failure with the Electrolux units (Kenmore, Frigidaire, some GE, etc.).
Part of the US resistance to oxygen bleach is because the first ones were sodium perborate and this only works in very very extremely hot water; so it is basically useless in US washing conditions - this, like the first itchy enzyme detergents conditioned US perceptions of what works for decades and, of course, the ridiculous prices for oxygen bleaches compared to chlorine in the US. They are marketed as specialty cleansers, not as the work horse normal additive as over here.
Of course, when push comes to shove - my cat who was dying of cancer, who had to have as germ free an environment as possible - I still used chlorine bleach and the 212° wash cycle. The six months of this were seven years ago and that washer is still running at a friend's house...an Electrolux.
But why chance it?
 
oxygen bleaches

I am not an expert, and I think the link below (a few years old but still valid information) will tell you much more than I can.
Basically, oxygen bleaches can be dry or wet.
Like all bleaches, the warmer the water, the better they work, but the sodium perborate formulas need the hottest water possible to work very well at all. Nowadays this is pretty much limited to dishwasher tabs, but was sold in the US for many many years as a laundry bleach. It worked so poorly in cold and lukewarm water that many folks my age associate "oxygen bleach" with "not very effective". This is wrong, of course.
In Europe, all-purpose laundry detergents tend to have one form or other of dry oxygen bleach.
Oxy-clean and similar products use oxygen bleach and other chemicals to attack stains. I don't know the formulation of oxy-clean.
Used properly, you can nearly do away with chlorine bleach and get the same results - better, really, since you can use oxygen bleaches on many fabrics which must not be chlorine bleached.
We really need one of the detergent experts here.

 
Hydrogen Peroxide (3% chemist variety or 6% hair bleach), will provide oxygen for laundry bleaching.

Sodium Perborate - The "hot water" oxygen bleach, will bleach but requires 140F water temps and above to really become effective. However modern bleach activators such as TAED, allow bleaching action to take place at 100F. Sodium perborate is difficult to rinse and has been banned by the EU for laundry purposes because of the danger boron poses to plant and aquatic life.

Sodium Percarbonate - The "cold water" oxygen bleach, will bleach in cold water as well as hot or boiling, thus has a wider reaction time and use than sodium perborate. Sodium percarbonate releases more oxygen in wash water than sodium perborate and according to some studies than liquid hydrogen peroxide.

All oxygen bleaches will work to some extent in cold temperatures, but bleaching action increases as temperatures rise. IIRC the numbers are something like a 20% increase in bleaching power for each 10 degrees of water temperature. This is why "colour safe" bleaches were traditionally sodium perborate as it wouldn't bleach using the normal wash temperatures for colours (warm or cool water). However if one washed those same colours at 140F or above, that is a different story.

Sodium perborate is somewhat inexpensive, which was the reason it was used on both sides of the pond. European laundry products have begun phasing the stuff out (Persil/Germany now contains sodium percarbonate bleaching agents), while American laundry detergents/bleaches mostly are sodium perborate (Biz, Clorox II dry), though most of the "Oxi" types are sodium percarbonate.

In general chlorine bleach is more effective in removing a wider array of stains and at lower temperatures/contact times than oxygen bleaches. However due to the damage repeated and or improper use of LCB, many prefer to use oxygen bleach. To get the whitening power of chlorine bleach, oxygen bleaches require either hot to boiling water or long contact times.

Oxygen bleaches and chlorine bleaches cancel each other out, one can be used to neutralise the other. That is you can pre-treat a bad stain with LCB, then launder with an oxygen bleach. The later will cancel out the former. White vinegar will also remove remaining traces of chlorine bleach.
 
History

The use of oxygen bleach predates automatic washing machines. Persil (PERcarbonate SILicate) was introduced in 1907 as "self-acting" washing powder. Other products were even earlier. At that time most people had no washing machine at all and whites were boiled in a large kettle, a practice that was still common in the beginning of the 1960's in the Netherlands. I remember my aunt having an extra large gas burner for the wash kettle that was placed on the kitchen floor on wash day. Automatic washing machines that became common during the 1960's continued this washing method. Chlorine bleach was used too but had a reputation of damaging fabrics and was therefore not popular.

 

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