Tandil Beats Persil Color Gel

[launderess]

Who knew a McBride product could beat the best Germany has to offer! *LOL*

https://bewezenkwaliteit.be/files/attachments/.426/onderzoeksresultaten_tandil.pdf

 

[liamy1]

Doesn’t

Surprise me (well it does of course) but not so much so considering who Tandil is made for.

Int the U.K., Our Lidl detergent “Formil” has just been named “best washing powder on test” by our consumer reports magazine “Which”

I think at one time, our Aldi detergent “Almat” (we don’t have Tandil) had the Which “Best buy” status, but I’m not so sure it does at the moment (But I do know it still carries the Good Housekeeping Institute award)

 

[mrboilwash]

I wonder if the tested "GEL COLOR SELS MINERAUX" is just another flanker of the original color gel in this particular market. If that is the case then the outcome of the test isn`t such a huge surprise.

In Germany for example the current Original color gel is:
>30% anionic surfactants and 5-15% nonionic sf.

The lavender scented version is merely:
5-15% anionic and <5% nonionic sf.

Guess which one is the best Germany has to offer and which one is just another money maker for Henkel. Not exactly trustworthy for a brand, but others do it as well.

The real surprise to me is that McBride supplies Aldi stores in Belgium with liquid detergents. I *think* in Germany it`s only Dalli detergents for Aldi.

 

[launderess]

Persil Lessive Color Gel aux Sels Minéraux

Savon, phosphonates, agents de surface non-ioniques, agents de surface anioniques.

https://www.auchandrive.lu/drive/ma...ionid=E21D782238AE2C3D54566851175ACE15.www01s

https://www.delhaize.be/fr-be/shop/...Couleur-7C-2e-1-2-prix/p/S2018062000073820000

Sels Minéraux could be any number of naturally occurring salts (sels). In case of this Persil it seems they are touting bicarbonate of soda and or perhaps other salts as having properties beneficial for laundry.

Long story short it is basically Persil color gel with a bit of something added for marketing purposes.

 

[mrboilwash]

The Persil Power Gel au Bicarbonate (the green colored universal version) at the Auchan supermarket is a bit more precise on active ingredients:

5-15% anionic and 5-15% nonionic sf.

So in other words it is again a completely different formular than the German version.
Different markets often result in different formulars adjusted to different expectations and market environments.

 

[gorenje]

@ mrboilwash

Yes, good observation. I also think the detergent in question isn't the best one Persil can offer.

The Persil Premium vesion is for example: 15-30 % anionic surfactants and 5 - 15 % nonionic surfactants

Anyway McBride produce several excellent detergents that won several times the first place for quality and price.

 

[launderess]

Being as all this may

Have found Persil color gel normally wanting in terms of overall stain removal. Tide Coldwater free often does a better job IMHO.

 

[mrboilwash]

Gorenje, the latest German "regular" color and universal gels are even stronger formulated at more than 30% anionic surfactants and they even require an allergy alert for the enzyme protease.
I`m usually not a huge fan of expensive brand names for things of everyday life because discounters offer excellent quality in Germany. Think of Dalli and McBride when it comes to detergents, but the new Persil is a product I will definitely buy again. It is very sudsy though, but I like that because this way you can tell if your dosing matched soil level and so on.

Is the premium Persil from Slovenia? I wonder because the labeling is written in English.
If it is only 15-30% anionic surfactants @ 50 ml for a standard load it might be the same formular as German "Persil Frischer Wasserfall". Still not the best they have to offer.

The possibly best Germany has to offer right now (in terms of cleaning power) even carries the "corrosive" hazard symbol instead of the usual "moderate hazard" symbol (the one with the exclamation mark)
I wonder how well it will do in terms of fabric care in upcoming consumer tests.
[this post was last edited: 8/21/2018-03:59]

 

[gorenje]

Stefan the color version from the picture above is taken from the internet.

The picture here is the one I have at home, the one from Slovenia. (But is also labeled in English on the front side as lots of our detergents. The back side it is written in many languages from this geographic area)

Yes right, this one is 15-30% anionic surfactants @ 50 ml for a standard load.

I also find that "lower" brands works also very good. I also like a lot detergents from DM (Drogerie markt) where I work. Denkmit vollwaschmittel is fantastic. Way better than the so famous Italian Dash. The Italian Dash it is no longer what it was once.

 

[gorenje]

... by the way

... the scent of this Premium Persil in my opinion reminds me of the scent of the last Americam Wisk. For me the scent it's almost identical.

And it makes somehow sense, because Henkel owned Sun products ...

 

[launderess]

Washed load of napkins last night in the AEG Lavamat

Using German industrial laundry powder (Trebon color from Kreussler).

At warm/104F wash for 91mins (Normal/Cottons/Linens), and all stains were removed. Including marks left behind from a previous wash with Persil color gel.

 

[mrboilwash]

Ingemar, I`m absolutely in love with DM and the Denkmit brand. In particular the aloe vera scented liquid color detergent and their "Multi-Power 12" dishwasher tabs.
Their competitor Rossmann however has lower prices on the big national brands when things are on sale.
The English labeling on the front makes sense when a product is sold in several countries, but it`s also kind of surprising to me because I would assume at least the older generation to be more familiar with Russian than English in your geographic area.

 

[nickuk]

assuming.....

that Le Chat green liquid (Henkel France) is the same as Persil green liquid (Henkel Germany) then I can also confirm that it does not clean to the level of the best in terms of stain removal. It does, however, have a scent which I enjoy.

I note with interest that Henkel are now pushing the premium products (now isn't that one handsome bottle of detergent pictured by gorenje a few posts up?!!!) and wonder if they have taken something away from the `normal' detergents for this reason. I don't remember `Le Chat' (have used it on an off for years) ever having been noticeably poor until my most recent bottle (purchased in May).

 

[launderess]

Henkel and others are likely finding out what P&G

Already had brought to their notice; consumers have discovered private label and or even some middle shelf brands give good or even better performance.

In turn as McBride's earning reports make good use of; private label products have stepped up their game over past few years.

 

[nickuk]

private labels matching big brand performance

I quite agree, Launderess.

What a faff, though, to have to go a particular store to get the best powder, then cross town to get the best liquid.....and neither may be where one wants to do a big shop.

It can be a time consuming affair, this pursuit of laundry excellence...

 

[gorenje]

@ Launderess

"private label products have stepped up their game over past few years"

Yes I also agree with Launderess on this. Some are as good and some even better.

 

[gorenje]

@ Stefan

Well I speak Russian, but this applies to me, absolutely not for the majority of the population.

To say that "the older generation to be more familiar with Russian than English in your geographic area" isn't true.

My geographic area was ones part of the former Yugoslavia, not Russia. And Yugoslavia was the only one Country in the Eastern Bloc that had nothing to do with Russia.

You can take a look at he picture on this link ;-)

http://https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Bloc

 

[mrboilwash]

Ingemar, I apologize for my preconception. I assumed anybody in the former Eastern Bloc had to learn Russian in school and didn`t think of Yugoslavia`s independence.

As to Le Chat, no it`s not the same as German Persil even if it`s Henkel`s top of the line detergent in France and looks the same. At least not if you compare the liquids, current Le Chat seems to be much weaker or cheaper formulated than current Persil is. Maybe the powders and or other formats are identical. I didn`t do any research on that one ;-)
All liquids in most parts of continental Europe had been reformulated recently to 50 ml for a standard load instead of the usual 75 ml. So it is easy to tell what is currently on the market in different regions. Compared to the UK we have been late to the party so to speak as you`ve had the 50 ml dosing for quite a while.

 

[liamy1]

Compared to the UK we have been late to the party so to spea

We are actually down to 35ml now in the U.K, and would say we have been for at least a couple of years (if not more, it could actually be closer to 4/5 years).

This could have been spurred on by the fact we have had the “small and mighty” liquid formulation from Unliver (the makers of our Persil) for about 10 years, but the 35ml is for all major brands, not just Unilever.

However, for Proctor and Gamble powders only (not liquids), their powder dosage has gone UP!! (minimum dose [eg normal soil and soft water for 4-5kg load] is now 105ml, it used to be 75ml).

It actually seems that P&G have started the the proper war on Powders now and are trying to drag people, kicking and screaming if need be, in to wet detergent formats. Certain powder variants are become ever increasingly hard (if not impossible) to find, and you can seemingly no longer get detergent powder scoops from them.

 

[launderess]

Tide Powder

P&G's once main TOL offering on this side of pond can be more difficult to find than a virgin at a prison rodeo.

Most shops in our area liquids dominate offerings, with only a small amount of shelf space given over to powders, and that includes Tide.

 

[liamy1]

Haha,

I believe so,.

It’s so sad, and we all know that’s it’s because powders are much cheaper to buy and use (but apparently more costly to produce) and whilst everyone has their own preferences, powders contain far more “tricks in the box” ie oxygen bleach included, enzymes kept more stable and longer shelf life.

Seems that manufacturers are having a much more difficult time over here compared to the US, I’m sure they’d love to be in the same situation here as over there, but powder is still the biggest selling format in the U.K. unless this has now recently changed.

No idea if true, but with the buying power and sheer wield that your major big box stores namely Walmart and Target had over the detergent manufacturers, they had a major hand in the decline of powders (demanding products that were easier to ship, took up less space in the warehouse and took up less space on the shop shelves). Of course, to keep shelf space of their product, the manufacturers complied. Especially P&G, as Walmart is their single biggest customer.

 

[mrboilwash]

I didn`t know that all liquids are down to 35 ml in the UK.
We`ve had Ariel Excel Gel and Sunil Small and Mighty and a few dicounter super concentrates, but all of them failed and have vanished a long time ago.
Market share of powders is still about 50% I think.

 

[liamy1]

Market share of powders is still about 50% I think.

I think we are at about the same over here (I want to say 53% from the last figure I saw), but this is something the are desperately trying to change (P&G more so it seems).

The dose for their powders is off the charts, even their smallest dose of 105ml is double what Unilever’s is (45ml).

Their “standard” (so medium water, normal to mod soil level and a 7kg approx load) 165ml Powder, is higher than Formils absolute top dose (for the heaviest wash scenario) of 145ml. I think P&G can get a user up to 210ml - that’s 130grams Powder, that would make 20 washes from a 2.6kg box (which retails at about £8-10 as a standard, but luckily can be had for as low as £4.50 when sale).

Funny how in a seemingly envinromentally conscious world, the “super concentrates “ are failing, as has happened over where you are. Same happened over here (apparently) with the Ultra (or Micro) Powder compacts in the early 90s, apparently they didn’t do well, so were pulled. I can’t see it being too unlikely that it was more to do with fact powder tablets and liquid capsules followed not so long after, so this pushed users in to a controlled dose and returning powders back to “big box” formulas made them bulky so the compact/ease of use and storage was diminished and thus the benefit of the tablets/caps was the compactness.

 

[mrboilwash]

We still have plenty of the super concentrated powders, but they don`t have the market share anymore they once had.
Problem with those are the very high contents of insoluble zeolites. While they give superior wash results not everybody is happy with the white dust that remains in clothes. Hence the raised demand for big box powders. Somehow manufacturers have found a way to lower zeolite content in the old fashioned powders or even keep them out at all.

You say a standard load of 7 kg, isn`t the EU standard load always 4,5 kg ?

 

[liamy1]

Load size

I would probably say 4/5kg is still probably the maIn size, but when referencing their detergents, they say the middle/avg dose is calculated on 6-8kg. They would wouldn’t they.

Not sure how much longer this will be, as most people now are switching to bigger machines, I’ve had everything from 4.5kg to 12kg and all in between. I currently have a 6kg Bosch, which runs rings around the 9kg (and the 12kg before that) Samsung’s it replaced. I really do like it.

 

[gorenje]

@ Stefan - No need to apologize, there is no problem. We can't know everything

Well regarding to marker share over here we have also a similar situation. 50% - 50% , liquid and powders but from what I can see at my work more and more people are using liquids.

I guess from what I can hear from customers a lot of people think liquids are less harsh on fabrics.

I personally would never wash a dirty white load with a liquid detergent. For me it's something inconceivable, but each of us is different.

Another peculiarity in our market is that we almost don't have Ultra Compact (Micro) concentrated powder detergents which as Stefan said in Germany are quite widespread. Especially the megaperls.

 

[launderess]

Interestingly

Super concentrated German commercial laundry detergent in my stash is totally zeolite free. Besides being an excellent performer it rinses cleanly (and quickly), leaving behind a light trace scent.

So it is possible to make powdered detergent without zeolites, It speaks to the mindset (or pocketbook) of P&G, Henkel, Unilever and others that they still do not. One assumes they'd rather push liquids, gels and other water based formats as their solution to that issue.

 

[nickuk]

super concentrated commercial detergent

"Super concentrated German commercial laundry detergent in my stash is totally zeolite free. Besides being an excellent performer it rinses cleanly (and quickly), leaving behind a light trace scent."

Wherever can we get some of this stuff?!

 

[rolls_rapide]

"I personally would never wash a dirty white load with a liquid detergent."

Me neither - though judging by the state of certain neighbours' washing, it seems some actually do wash their whites with liquids.

 

[launderess]

"Wherever can we get some of this stuff?! "

Basically you can't. *LOL* Was able to nab a supply via connections, but even so had to take it has it came; one large 25kg sack!

Trebon Color like rest of offerings by Kreussler are sold to commercial/industrial laundries only. Much like Ecolab and Johnston-Diversey products.

That is the official line anyway; but as with the last two stuff sometimes appears in aftermarket venues such as eBay.

However faint heart never won fair lady.....

http://www.cleansupply.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=294

Ring them up and ask.....

Main issues are likely that commercial laundry supplies work on invoice payment system. That is one places an order and it is shipped with a bill. This is how commercial accounts have worked for ages, and is why many are "to the trade" only.