Tandil Beats Persil Color Gel

[liamy1]

Haha,

I believe so,.

It’s so sad, and we all know that’s it’s because powders are much cheaper to buy and use (but apparently more costly to produce) and whilst everyone has their own preferences, powders contain far more “tricks in the box” ie oxygen bleach included, enzymes kept more stable and longer shelf life.

Seems that manufacturers are having a much more difficult time over here compared to the US, I’m sure they’d love to be in the same situation here as over there, but powder is still the biggest selling format in the U.K. unless this has now recently changed.

No idea if true, but with the buying power and sheer wield that your major big box stores namely Walmart and Target had over the detergent manufacturers, they had a major hand in the decline of powders (demanding products that were easier to ship, took up less space in the warehouse and took up less space on the shop shelves). Of course, to keep shelf space of their product, the manufacturers complied. Especially P&G, as Walmart is their single biggest customer.

 

[mrboilwash]

I didn`t know that all liquids are down to 35 ml in the UK.
We`ve had Ariel Excel Gel and Sunil Small and Mighty and a few dicounter super concentrates, but all of them failed and have vanished a long time ago.
Market share of powders is still about 50% I think.

 

[liamy1]

Market share of powders is still about 50% I think.

I think we are at about the same over here (I want to say 53% from the last figure I saw), but this is something the are desperately trying to change (P&G more so it seems).

The dose for their powders is off the charts, even their smallest dose of 105ml is double what Unilever’s is (45ml).

Their “standard” (so medium water, normal to mod soil level and a 7kg approx load) 165ml Powder, is higher than Formils absolute top dose (for the heaviest wash scenario) of 145ml. I think P&G can get a user up to 210ml - that’s 130grams Powder, that would make 20 washes from a 2.6kg box (which retails at about £8-10 as a standard, but luckily can be had for as low as £4.50 when sale).

Funny how in a seemingly envinromentally conscious world, the “super concentrates “ are failing, as has happened over where you are. Same happened over here (apparently) with the Ultra (or Micro) Powder compacts in the early 90s, apparently they didn’t do well, so were pulled. I can’t see it being too unlikely that it was more to do with fact powder tablets and liquid capsules followed not so long after, so this pushed users in to a controlled dose and returning powders back to “big box” formulas made them bulky so the compact/ease of use and storage was diminished and thus the benefit of the tablets/caps was the compactness.

 

[mrboilwash]

We still have plenty of the super concentrated powders, but they don`t have the market share anymore they once had.
Problem with those are the very high contents of insoluble zeolites. While they give superior wash results not everybody is happy with the white dust that remains in clothes. Hence the raised demand for big box powders. Somehow manufacturers have found a way to lower zeolite content in the old fashioned powders or even keep them out at all.

You say a standard load of 7 kg, isn`t the EU standard load always 4,5 kg ?

 

[liamy1]

Load size

I would probably say 4/5kg is still probably the maIn size, but when referencing their detergents, they say the middle/avg dose is calculated on 6-8kg. They would wouldn’t they.

Not sure how much longer this will be, as most people now are switching to bigger machines, I’ve had everything from 4.5kg to 12kg and all in between. I currently have a 6kg Bosch, which runs rings around the 9kg (and the 12kg before that) Samsung’s it replaced. I really do like it.

 

[gorenje]

@ Stefan - No need to apologize, there is no problem. We can't know everything

Well regarding to marker share over here we have also a similar situation. 50% - 50% , liquid and powders but from what I can see at my work more and more people are using liquids.

I guess from what I can hear from customers a lot of people think liquids are less harsh on fabrics.

I personally would never wash a dirty white load with a liquid detergent. For me it's something inconceivable, but each of us is different.

Another peculiarity in our market is that we almost don't have Ultra Compact (Micro) concentrated powder detergents which as Stefan said in Germany are quite widespread. Especially the megaperls.

 

[launderess]

Interestingly

Super concentrated German commercial laundry detergent in my stash is totally zeolite free. Besides being an excellent performer it rinses cleanly (and quickly), leaving behind a light trace scent.

So it is possible to make powdered detergent without zeolites, It speaks to the mindset (or pocketbook) of P&G, Henkel, Unilever and others that they still do not. One assumes they'd rather push liquids, gels and other water based formats as their solution to that issue.

 

[nickuk]

super concentrated commercial detergent

"Super concentrated German commercial laundry detergent in my stash is totally zeolite free. Besides being an excellent performer it rinses cleanly (and quickly), leaving behind a light trace scent."

Wherever can we get some of this stuff?!

 

[rolls_rapide]

"I personally would never wash a dirty white load with a liquid detergent."

Me neither - though judging by the state of certain neighbours' washing, it seems some actually do wash their whites with liquids.

 

[launderess]

"Wherever can we get some of this stuff?! "

Basically you can't. *LOL* Was able to nab a supply via connections, but even so had to take it has it came; one large 25kg sack!

Trebon Color like rest of offerings by Kreussler are sold to commercial/industrial laundries only. Much like Ecolab and Johnston-Diversey products.

That is the official line anyway; but as with the last two stuff sometimes appears in aftermarket venues such as eBay.

However faint heart never won fair lady.....

http://www.cleansupply.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=294

Ring them up and ask.....

Main issues are likely that commercial laundry supplies work on invoice payment system. That is one places an order and it is shipped with a bill. This is how commercial accounts have worked for ages, and is why many are "to the trade" only.

 

[launderess]

"I personally would never wash a dirty white load with a liquid detergent."

As one has repeatedly stated, what do people think all those in wash "boosters" are in aid of then?

Having removed what really makes whites clean and mark free (bleaches, alkaline substances, etc...) in liquid detergents, product makers came up with "boosters". These products contain oxygen bleach, maybe a bleach activator, enzymes, washing soda, etc... Same sort of things one finds in a top shelf powder detergent.....

It's all a con; but people fall for it time and time again.

 

[nickuk]

washing whites with liquids.....

I think it's OK to do this if whites are washed separately on an appropriate cycle / temperature and if the liquid is good quality and ideally contains OBA. Furthermore, I maintain that liquid is acceptable if either

(a) one adds oxy bleach to the wash or
(b) one dries outside in the sun (actually offers stronger bleaching than oxy bleach)

I get that it is kind of counter intuitive to wash whites with liquids, but I feel that the addition of either of the two variables above gives at least a comparable performance to powder. There's only about 2% less cleaning power (according to Which?)if one uses Persil bio liquid vs Ariel bio powder as stand alone products. Surely adding TAED and oxy bleach to top performing Persil liquid must give a similar performance to Ariel powder? Infact in my experience it is actually better.

On a grubby load I will add a double or triple dose of pure oxy bleach which boosts cleaning powder massively without oversudsing whereas simply increasing detergent might do. In fact in this case I may only dose about 20ml liquid vs 35, and I also enjoy this flexibility.

Never in my experience has any stain which has not been removed using this combo then subsequently been removed by bio powder on a test / rewash though I would be very interested to hear of actual examples which counteract this claim. I am fastidious about testing detergents for stain removal and I don't make these claims lightly.

Partly I do it this way because I like to use the same base product for all laundry (except wool / silk) for consistency. Furthermore I can add a half or a quarter measure of oxy bleach to colour fast loads as I see fit - if there are stains which require it or if I want some deoderising properties added. I like the flexibility. When the kids were babies certain stains required LCB which I happily added to liquid once the enzymes had worked some magic - of course one could not add LCB to a detergent containing oxy bleach.

Furthermore with liquid if I want to prewash I can do this with the enzymatic liquid before adding oxy bleach in to the mix. I can also pretreat and easily handwash with it. Use of a dosing ball reassures me that none of the product will stick in the dispenser or pipes and end up in a rinse cycle.

What I do object to (as I imagine most good folk on aw.org would) is liquid constantly being used on overloaded machines whose dials seem to be stuck on tepid `quick wash' (is this just an awful British habit?)causing filthy stinky machines. But if you know what you're doing I genuinely believe liquid is a fine laundry staple.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

I wash whites with Bio Tesco liquid at 60C and they come out sparkling white and then line dry in the sun. I don't really notice the difference in cleaning between the brands so i generally stick to McBride products and i prefer the fragrances. I use Tesco colour for coloured clothes and again they get everything clean too.