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a440

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Okay...
I know this is off kilter with posting to a Vintage Appliance Club.....
However...I was thinking tonight that there might be so may people here that have had the same experiences that I have gone through this weekend here, so I would take a chance, and see if you can help me grasp my experience.
I have talked this weekend, or I would say the last 4 days to people in my past that I wanted to get in touch with to see how they are doing. We lost touch...You know how it is...you just loose touch.
All of the group is between the ages of 44 to 52. Here is the shocking part....the all told me during our conversation that they were recently tested HIV+.
Now I know this should not be a shock to me. They however were not positive in their middle to late 30's to late 40's when I was keeping touch with them! I brought this up of course. They then proceeded to tell me that this happened within the last couple of years???!!! I am so dumbfounded by this! How could this happen?
They tell me not to worry because there are so many new drugs that they can live a long life on going and they do not worry about being protective. I am sorry about posting this. Has anyone else dealt with this?
I of course questioned them, and they saw me as a negative person that did not want to accept that they would be okay with these "New Drugs" for people living with HIV.
I just can't wrap my mind around this! I even called my Mother to talk about it. She was totally cool, and told me that I can't save the world and let it go.
The sad part is that I don't think that they will talk to me again after our conversations. They did brag however how they go out and party with the younger gay crowds. I think they get by with this behavior with "party favors" because their whole conversations were they "conquests". So sad.
I honesty have to say that I am heart broken. These are guys that have gone back to my good ole days in New Orleans when I was a young lad of 17 or so.
I am sorry if this is inappropriate.
I just wanted to vent.
Brent
 
This is not a new story. I read an article a few years ago about those in their late teens and early 20's no longer using condoms or practicing any sort of safe sex. The response was that HIV was now like being a diabetic. You just take a few pills every day and you are fine. I was shocked to say the least. I guess that we have all lost so many people that we have known and loved that it's not something to take lightly.
 
Brent, to be honest my initial reaction was that your post has troll written all over it. How many "people in your past" are you talking about? You're claiming "all" of them not only volunteered their HIV+ status to you, but then turned around and bragged about their intentionally unprotected "conquests"?

I apologize in advance if your story is true, but it just sounds too much like classic far-right alarmist fodder.

If it's true, I agree with your mom. It's natural selection hard at work, and nothing is going to stop it. People are responsible for protecting themselves. But if I were you I'd find a new circle of friends, because this one is morally bankrupt.
 
Jeff.....

These are friends that I have not talked to in several years.
The subject came up when I asked them how they are doing. It was like talking to them and they telling me that they had a cold.
The sad part about it is that they are still in the clubs as though they are in their 20's. Early 20's actually. That was the part that shocked me. They are actually all successful. I just thought that they were settled down and living the typical life like most people our ages.
As far as how many people I am talking about....4. Four people that I talked to. Two of them are still in my home town that I grew up in, ( New Orleans) and the other two somewhere else.
As far as your statements....Don't go name calling. Troll....Come on Jeff? You sound like the friends I was talking to actually that think they are still in their 20's. How old are you? 15?
As far as finding a new circle of friends.....I was keeping up with older friends from my past that I have not talked to in ages. Three of them I got their cell number from their parents.
You seem to be a freaking ass to say that what my friends have experienced now in their lives, and anyone here that is reading this that is experiencing a friend or themselves that may have HIV, that this is a "Natural Selection hard at work". How dare you?!
I was just looking to find out if anyone else has experienced this from friends or otherwise. Not looking for your "superior attitude" or any of your negative "Opinions".
Brent
 
Brent, I feel for you. I find it still painful to discover people I know (or have known in the last 7 years) who have become positive. Some it's "eh, no big deal". Others admit they made a stupid mistake and poor judgement and have those consequences for the rest of their lives. What is equaly sad, with the cavalier attitude such as your friends having. That there are all thesee new super drugs and they can still ahve a long life. They're still expensive (both patient and us end up bearing the brunt of those costs) and there are horrible side-efrfects from the drugs, not to mention the viris can still cause day to day issues that are horribly unpleasant, even with the drugs. And from what I underttand, one has to be very regimented and follow that regiment in order for the drugs to be effective. I hope I haven't come across as cavalier and brusk. My heart goes out to ya Brent because I know you personally as an extremely caring, sensitive, loving man.
 
Brent, I apologized in advance, in case I was wrong. And it looks like I was wrong. So again I'm sorry.

But as far as natural selection goes, I absolutely defend my use of that term. Our community has known for 20+ years how to protect ourselves from HIV infection. For people who choose to have unprotected sex, in this day and age, what *would* you call that? Stupidity, carelessness, selfishness, pick whatever fu*king term you're comfortable with. To me it's natural selection, nothing more and nothing less.

And as far as "superior attitude" goes, I can only say I've lost about 100 friends and several former lovers to HIV. And yes, I include almost all of them in the natural selection death toll.
 
Brent

It makes perfect sense to me that you would be distressed
about your long time friends being casual about what you, myself, and most gay men consider to be a serious situation.
Most alarming is that they are failing to consider more
dire consequences of their inept risk management strategies.
I think your Mother's response is very reasonable. Given that
a hefty percentage of AW.O participants are middle aging
gay males, I think you are not being inappropriate at all.
Let your Broken Heart Mend.
 
You are NOT responsibile for others actions

Your mother is RIGHT YOU cannot save the world let it go.
I do know so well how it hurts and pulls at the heart strings, I see it everday in my work. You cannot MAKE anyone care. they either do or do not. You make the choice of who you run with..
 
In my city, there are those that seek "the gift" on purpose.
There are even parties for that purpose and the receiver of the gift celebrates!

1- It widens one's "social" circle.
2- It gets one disability payments (read: modest income for life).

I've even heard of cases where once one's T-cell count gets to a certain low, one can collect on their own life insurance policy.... THEN the intense thearapy starts.
 
Steve, a lot of sick things take place in cities, especially in NYC.

First time I've ever been glad the Super forum isn't archived.
 
I have heard also that HIV is increasing exponentially in the senior community, especially institutional settings. (Read" "old-age" homes).

Somehow that commercial where the harsh fluorescent lights flash-on where four seniors are playing strip-poker (remembering fondly the days of their youth)in the basement of the nursing home/institional setting is not far from the truth, it seems.

My biggest concern is for the gay married men who run around getting quickies and get into all sorts of unsafe behavior. Just the IDEA that one is safe (statisically) ["I'm not gay; I can't get it. (*waves to Senator Craig*)] does not ensure a shield of protection.
 
What. Mom. Said.

You can't argue with ignorance.

Nothing surprises me anymore. A friend of mine (60s) was recently diagnosed HIV+ I had to maintain DIFFICULT silence when he told me so that I didn't say things I would regret later. In his case, it was excessive alcohol at the time of raging hormones to blame.

Another pal and I were whining the other day about how difficult it is to meet someone around our age (late 50s), since neither of us has had a date since the last century. Honest. It finally occurred to us that most of those who would be possible partner material are dead. True that, over the years I've gone through the equivalent of tearing my address book in half - that's how many friends I lost.

Pity party over; at least we have our health!
 
The hammer over the head here is that these men were partying with 20-somethings. Do that without playing it safe and you are absolutely asking for trouble. Those kids weren't around in the 80's. They didn't lose friends or know friends who lost friends. They've seen enough people living with HIV to think it's no big deal if they get infected. Steer clear of this group if you want to stay healthy. You start partying with them (aka doing meth), your judgement evaporates and your troubles are just beginning.

Rubbers, rubbers, rubbers. Easy and cheap, and with a little pharmaceutical help from Pfizer, they can make the fun last longer.

Ralph
 
Iam a support worker and work with 16 to 25 year olds. It amazes me the ignorance they have towards HIV and other STD's. I am approaching 40 and grew up when HIV first hit the headlines, It was drummed into us at every opportunity how important safe sex was. I have spoken to the people I support about safe sex, NONE of the guys ( gay or straight ) use condoms!!! I asked why, their answer was the didn't like or need them!! When I asked about STD's half of them didn't know what an STD was!

I know several younger gay guys ( not through work ) and the ones that do use condoms say that there are guys who are shocked that they use them???!!!
 
Thanks Guys!

I guess I am not as grown up to the "scene" as I once was. You guys have all opened my eyes.
This morning I called a friend that has been a bartender in New Orleans since 1987. Without going into all the details, he basically said exactly what you guys are saying. At first it used to wreck his nerves when what he calls "the wave of ignorance" all started in the late 90's. He said that he felt it was the popularity of Meth hitting the scene hard, mixed with a young generation that has never had any "scary first hand" education as we did growing up. So you guys are all so on target!
You know I plunder and analyze everything to death....and I am wondering this.... Why is there no strong education to the younger kids? I was caught in traffic about two weeks ago in Midtown and I looked up to see this huge billboard that was about "Living with HIV" promoting the medication company. It looked like a Calvin Klein Ad. To me that is subliminal advertising. You know....don't worry about HIV, your generation has drugs now. Not that I want the posters to be gross or anything....I am just thinking about if someone could do a modern day education video. Showing people their own age and generation suffering. You know the not glamorous side of it all....
Thanks again guys!
Sorry for the ramble.
Brent
 
Education:

Brent:

HIV education is a little difficult these days, because of the new drugs available. If you show the younger generation old footage of the terrible suffering early patients went through, they are able to tell themselves that the new drugs will prevent all that. And, to a certain limited extent, they are correct.

Our generation saw it all first-hand, and that creates its own set of problems. Some of us, like you and me, took the suffering so much to heart that we will never forget or let our guard down. But others evidently don't want to remember. As they age and start looking for their youth in the next generation's faces, they seem to want to believe that it's the '70s all over again, that they can do anything they want with no consequences.

For me, no thanks. I was a member of the "Funeral-of-the-Month" club for too many years there. I value my remaining friends of my own age; we're all very fortunate to still be here and still be negative.
 
Amen Sandy.

My own defense mechanism to the relentless heartbreak of losing loved ones, and understanding that virtually all of these deaths were preventable, was reverting to a view that it's natural selection.

It was either that or slit my freaking wrists.
 

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