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a440

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Joined
Sep 6, 2008
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3,193
Okay...
I know this is off kilter with posting to a Vintage Appliance Club.....
However...I was thinking tonight that there might be so may people here that have had the same experiences that I have gone through this weekend here, so I would take a chance, and see if you can help me grasp my experience.
I have talked this weekend, or I would say the last 4 days to people in my past that I wanted to get in touch with to see how they are doing. We lost touch...You know how it is...you just loose touch.
All of the group is between the ages of 44 to 52. Here is the shocking part....the all told me during our conversation that they were recently tested HIV+.
Now I know this should not be a shock to me. They however were not positive in their middle to late 30's to late 40's when I was keeping touch with them! I brought this up of course. They then proceeded to tell me that this happened within the last couple of years???!!! I am so dumbfounded by this! How could this happen?
They tell me not to worry because there are so many new drugs that they can live a long life on going and they do not worry about being protective. I am sorry about posting this. Has anyone else dealt with this?
I of course questioned them, and they saw me as a negative person that did not want to accept that they would be okay with these "New Drugs" for people living with HIV.
I just can't wrap my mind around this! I even called my Mother to talk about it. She was totally cool, and told me that I can't save the world and let it go.
The sad part is that I don't think that they will talk to me again after our conversations. They did brag however how they go out and party with the younger gay crowds. I think they get by with this behavior with "party favors" because their whole conversations were they "conquests". So sad.
I honesty have to say that I am heart broken. These are guys that have gone back to my good ole days in New Orleans when I was a young lad of 17 or so.
I am sorry if this is inappropriate.
I just wanted to vent.
Brent
 
This is not a new story. I read an article a few years ago about those in their late teens and early 20's no longer using condoms or practicing any sort of safe sex. The response was that HIV was now like being a diabetic. You just take a few pills every day and you are fine. I was shocked to say the least. I guess that we have all lost so many people that we have known and loved that it's not something to take lightly.
 
Brent, to be honest my initial reaction was that your post has troll written all over it. How many "people in your past" are you talking about? You're claiming "all" of them not only volunteered their HIV+ status to you, but then turned around and bragged about their intentionally unprotected "conquests"?

I apologize in advance if your story is true, but it just sounds too much like classic far-right alarmist fodder.

If it's true, I agree with your mom. It's natural selection hard at work, and nothing is going to stop it. People are responsible for protecting themselves. But if I were you I'd find a new circle of friends, because this one is morally bankrupt.
 
Jeff.....

These are friends that I have not talked to in several years.
The subject came up when I asked them how they are doing. It was like talking to them and they telling me that they had a cold.
The sad part about it is that they are still in the clubs as though they are in their 20's. Early 20's actually. That was the part that shocked me. They are actually all successful. I just thought that they were settled down and living the typical life like most people our ages.
As far as how many people I am talking about....4. Four people that I talked to. Two of them are still in my home town that I grew up in, ( New Orleans) and the other two somewhere else.
As far as your statements....Don't go name calling. Troll....Come on Jeff? You sound like the friends I was talking to actually that think they are still in their 20's. How old are you? 15?
As far as finding a new circle of friends.....I was keeping up with older friends from my past that I have not talked to in ages. Three of them I got their cell number from their parents.
You seem to be a freaking ass to say that what my friends have experienced now in their lives, and anyone here that is reading this that is experiencing a friend or themselves that may have HIV, that this is a "Natural Selection hard at work". How dare you?!
I was just looking to find out if anyone else has experienced this from friends or otherwise. Not looking for your "superior attitude" or any of your negative "Opinions".
Brent
 
Brent, I feel for you. I find it still painful to discover people I know (or have known in the last 7 years) who have become positive. Some it's "eh, no big deal". Others admit they made a stupid mistake and poor judgement and have those consequences for the rest of their lives. What is equaly sad, with the cavalier attitude such as your friends having. That there are all thesee new super drugs and they can still ahve a long life. They're still expensive (both patient and us end up bearing the brunt of those costs) and there are horrible side-efrfects from the drugs, not to mention the viris can still cause day to day issues that are horribly unpleasant, even with the drugs. And from what I underttand, one has to be very regimented and follow that regiment in order for the drugs to be effective. I hope I haven't come across as cavalier and brusk. My heart goes out to ya Brent because I know you personally as an extremely caring, sensitive, loving man.
 
Brent, I apologized in advance, in case I was wrong. And it looks like I was wrong. So again I'm sorry.

But as far as natural selection goes, I absolutely defend my use of that term. Our community has known for 20+ years how to protect ourselves from HIV infection. For people who choose to have unprotected sex, in this day and age, what *would* you call that? Stupidity, carelessness, selfishness, pick whatever fu*king term you're comfortable with. To me it's natural selection, nothing more and nothing less.

And as far as "superior attitude" goes, I can only say I've lost about 100 friends and several former lovers to HIV. And yes, I include almost all of them in the natural selection death toll.
 
Brent

It makes perfect sense to me that you would be distressed
about your long time friends being casual about what you, myself, and most gay men consider to be a serious situation.
Most alarming is that they are failing to consider more
dire consequences of their inept risk management strategies.
I think your Mother's response is very reasonable. Given that
a hefty percentage of AW.O participants are middle aging
gay males, I think you are not being inappropriate at all.
Let your Broken Heart Mend.
 
You are NOT responsibile for others actions

Your mother is RIGHT YOU cannot save the world let it go.
I do know so well how it hurts and pulls at the heart strings, I see it everday in my work. You cannot MAKE anyone care. they either do or do not. You make the choice of who you run with..
 
In my city, there are those that seek "the gift" on purpose.
There are even parties for that purpose and the receiver of the gift celebrates!

1- It widens one's "social" circle.
2- It gets one disability payments (read: modest income for life).

I've even heard of cases where once one's T-cell count gets to a certain low, one can collect on their own life insurance policy.... THEN the intense thearapy starts.
 
Steve, a lot of sick things take place in cities, especially in NYC.

First time I've ever been glad the Super forum isn't archived.
 
I have heard also that HIV is increasing exponentially in the senior community, especially institutional settings. (Read" "old-age" homes).

Somehow that commercial where the harsh fluorescent lights flash-on where four seniors are playing strip-poker (remembering fondly the days of their youth)in the basement of the nursing home/institional setting is not far from the truth, it seems.

My biggest concern is for the gay married men who run around getting quickies and get into all sorts of unsafe behavior. Just the IDEA that one is safe (statisically) ["I'm not gay; I can't get it. (*waves to Senator Craig*)] does not ensure a shield of protection.
 
What. Mom. Said.

You can't argue with ignorance.

Nothing surprises me anymore. A friend of mine (60s) was recently diagnosed HIV+ I had to maintain DIFFICULT silence when he told me so that I didn't say things I would regret later. In his case, it was excessive alcohol at the time of raging hormones to blame.

Another pal and I were whining the other day about how difficult it is to meet someone around our age (late 50s), since neither of us has had a date since the last century. Honest. It finally occurred to us that most of those who would be possible partner material are dead. True that, over the years I've gone through the equivalent of tearing my address book in half - that's how many friends I lost.

Pity party over; at least we have our health!
 
The hammer over the head here is that these men were partying with 20-somethings. Do that without playing it safe and you are absolutely asking for trouble. Those kids weren't around in the 80's. They didn't lose friends or know friends who lost friends. They've seen enough people living with HIV to think it's no big deal if they get infected. Steer clear of this group if you want to stay healthy. You start partying with them (aka doing meth), your judgement evaporates and your troubles are just beginning.

Rubbers, rubbers, rubbers. Easy and cheap, and with a little pharmaceutical help from Pfizer, they can make the fun last longer.

Ralph
 
Iam a support worker and work with 16 to 25 year olds. It amazes me the ignorance they have towards HIV and other STD's. I am approaching 40 and grew up when HIV first hit the headlines, It was drummed into us at every opportunity how important safe sex was. I have spoken to the people I support about safe sex, NONE of the guys ( gay or straight ) use condoms!!! I asked why, their answer was the didn't like or need them!! When I asked about STD's half of them didn't know what an STD was!

I know several younger gay guys ( not through work ) and the ones that do use condoms say that there are guys who are shocked that they use them???!!!
 
Thanks Guys!

I guess I am not as grown up to the "scene" as I once was. You guys have all opened my eyes.
This morning I called a friend that has been a bartender in New Orleans since 1987. Without going into all the details, he basically said exactly what you guys are saying. At first it used to wreck his nerves when what he calls "the wave of ignorance" all started in the late 90's. He said that he felt it was the popularity of Meth hitting the scene hard, mixed with a young generation that has never had any "scary first hand" education as we did growing up. So you guys are all so on target!
You know I plunder and analyze everything to death....and I am wondering this.... Why is there no strong education to the younger kids? I was caught in traffic about two weeks ago in Midtown and I looked up to see this huge billboard that was about "Living with HIV" promoting the medication company. It looked like a Calvin Klein Ad. To me that is subliminal advertising. You know....don't worry about HIV, your generation has drugs now. Not that I want the posters to be gross or anything....I am just thinking about if someone could do a modern day education video. Showing people their own age and generation suffering. You know the not glamorous side of it all....
Thanks again guys!
Sorry for the ramble.
Brent
 
Education:

Brent:

HIV education is a little difficult these days, because of the new drugs available. If you show the younger generation old footage of the terrible suffering early patients went through, they are able to tell themselves that the new drugs will prevent all that. And, to a certain limited extent, they are correct.

Our generation saw it all first-hand, and that creates its own set of problems. Some of us, like you and me, took the suffering so much to heart that we will never forget or let our guard down. But others evidently don't want to remember. As they age and start looking for their youth in the next generation's faces, they seem to want to believe that it's the '70s all over again, that they can do anything they want with no consequences.

For me, no thanks. I was a member of the "Funeral-of-the-Month" club for too many years there. I value my remaining friends of my own age; we're all very fortunate to still be here and still be negative.
 
Amen Sandy.

My own defense mechanism to the relentless heartbreak of losing loved ones, and understanding that virtually all of these deaths were preventable, was reverting to a view that it's natural selection.

It was either that or slit my freaking wrists.
 
Let's Look at the Bright Side:

I know that the new drugs are not everything the pharmaceutical industry would like people to believe, but they have turned a certain death sentence into a medical condition that can be managed, hopefully until such time as even better medicines come along.

We no longer get that "sinking feeling" when we realise we haven't seen a friend in a while.

We no longer see concealer makeup slathered over mysterious bumps.

We no longer hear people coming up with elaborate "cover stories" to explain weight loss.

We no longer have to play Telephone Detective to locate people we haven't heard from in a while, eventually ending up talking to a hostile parent who is ashamed of what their child has contracted, and who really doesn't want to talk about it.

We aren't making endless hospital visits, only to find the laughing, sexy, vital friends we knew wasted to near-skeletal weight and in terrifying despair.

We don't shun those who are infected because we have misinformation about what spreads HIV and what does not.

We don't go to nearly as many funerals, and when we do, we aren't coping as often with family who clearly wish none of "those people" were present.

We don't end up forever talking about the latest theories and therapies at parties or at bars, searching for pitiful scraps of hope.

We are informed, we are protected, and we have a fallback position if something goes wrong. I personally know of 24 people who would have given anything - anything - if such a situation had existed when they were sick.

It ain't perfect now. It is better.
 
A MESSAGE TO ALL!

Funeral of the Month was a good month . more like of the day here. Their were days and a number of them I attended 2 or3 funerals. 1 week I will never forget there were 12 that week. Here and friends in Dallas. When you see the pain on the faces and scars YES, Scars of the disease on the hands and faces to the point you dont know who that is laying there But you know that was one of YOUR Friends, you WILL NEVER FORGET!And many times when I came out of the Funeral Home and Church and was being picketed by low life sucm that have no respect for family or them selves And called Faggot, Queer and Whore as I walked to my car and watched the familys greif. NO I WILL NEVER EVER FORGET!
 
To all the guys,

espcially the younger ones. As some of you may know I am a RN and have been working in Public Health for over 15 years. Brent, I know exactly where you are coming from. I don't want to hurt any young person's feelings here, but I'm seeing more young gay men 14-23 years ago who are having high risk sex, okay barebacking I said it and are becoming HIV +. They take it so lightly and I have even heard of special parties where they get to pick out a guy(s) who will infect them, sort of badge of honor if you will. All they know is that if they become infected, they just "take a pill" and everything will be alright. WRONG! This is not something like high bloodpressure or diabetes. You will have this virus for the rest of your life and will probably die from complications from HIV/AIDS. Remember you can be infected for months or years without having symptoms until its too late. I'm 52 and can remember the 80s where people (and some of my friends) were dropping like flies. In my state of NC, we are having a terrible epidemic of Syphilis which HIV usually follows as well. Also in my state, there is too little sex education being taught...Bible Belt you know. HIV is still around, and will be around. Please listen up!! Many states of doing "Opt Out Testing" where every health care provider is suppose to be testing "ALL Patients" for HIV. Take advantage of this when you see your doctor at your regular appointment. Now I will get off my soap box.
 
As a child of the very late 60's....

....I was a teenager in the 1980's.

I remember watching Australian 60 minutes when HIV first came out.

I vividly remember sex education at school. This was one topic that was never really discussed at home yet here I was at 11yrs of age handling a condom in 6th grade for the first time.

Sex ed. continued until I finished school. Very light at first, then getting more and more indepth.

Homosexuality was also touched on and how to be carefull against HIV/AIDS...

To this day I am eternally gratefull to the education system in Canberra that was so diligent in making sure EVERYONE was aware from an early age on what to/not to do....I'm sure it has helped save many lives...

NOW, as for these people that actually want HIV. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.....and frankly think they have bigger 'belonging' issues that they need assistance with.
 
You know what gets me in all this, are educated mature guys playing with younger guys and not passing on the education, and reality of safe sex, but this "no care" attitude, by both sides...education whether they want it or not should be introduced and if they don't want to hear it or refuse to use a condom, thats your sign to stay away....

and to some of the older guys out there, it great to show the younger generation how it's done, train them if you will, many young ones don't have a clue of what their doing, both practicing safe sex and performance, you owe it to them and yourself....if you have to,(let me try to keep this PG)instruct them how to use their talent, and turn something mediocre into mind blowing, don't waste time dabbling at the top, take it to the base, get hands on experience if you must....

After 20 years I still play safe with the same partner...training back then has taught me "I AM VERY GOOD AT WHAT I DO!"
 
There are a number of members here, as well as friends of mine, too, who are far from morally bankrupt "party boys". Respectable, successful, intelligent people contract HIV also. Sometimes it's a case of poor judgement, other times, a broken condom, sometimes through plain deception of a trusted partner. The younger generation may indeed be guilty of extreme ignorance because they have not seen what some of us older folks have seen in our past. Name calling and judgements are what I'd expect of many so-called holy rollers, but not what I'd expect from those of us who know better. Granted, no one can save anyone who doesn't want to be saved, but we can sure as hell help to educate the ignorant every chance we get. AIDS may no longer be a death sentence, but it does carry a social stigma to a great degree, and guarantees one a lifetime of uncertainty at best. It is NOT a "bad persons" disease, and no one "gets what they deserve". I'd expect to hear that from Anita Bryant.
 
> It is NOT a "bad persons" disease, and no one "gets what they deserve". I'd expect to hear that from Anita Bryant. <

Who are you quoting? No one made either of those statements in this discussion.
 
Preventing transmission of disease

In Kindergarten one is now taught "If it's wet and it's not yours, don't touch it".

That pretty much sums it up, eh? :-)
 
My fear of HIV is what has prevented me from having much of a sex life. I am 44 years old, and have had intercourse maybe 10 times or less. It's been difficult as I have a raging sex drive! But I am afraid. And when I do have sex, it is protected. And, actually, sex with yourself can be VERY gratifying. I wish others would realize that sex is not the end of the world. Actually, it can be the end of YOUR world. The HIV virus can be treated, but it also mutates. So just because the drugs work today, doesn't mean they will work tomorrow. I feel for anyone living with HIV, and hope those without it will think twice before having unprotected sex.
 
~So just because the drugs work today, doesn't mean they will work tomorrow.

Likewise, the HIV + having uprotected activites with other HIV + persons simply means that they may cross-infect each-other with different strains / mutations of "the bug".
 
Brent

Sad truth in your experience. But what amazes me is if these guys are 50's and contracting by running around with 20 somethings then who is giving it to who? It must be the collision of two things here: lack of education in the young here and tired old queens who figure 10 years puts me into my mid 60's that's a fine time to check out.
I do see a wave of stupidity around me that is gob-smacking. Not just in sexual behavior either, take a spin on the NJ Turnpike today and you'll see it in the younger drivers male & female!!

I am too tuned into enjoying my health to risk sickness and also I admit freely: I was lucky in the 80's some guardian angle was looking over my shoulder for sure. With all that it allowed me to learn all the traps & hooks out there. Also being a bartender all through the 80's really opened my eyes, to what people expect or want from their lives.

But your view of that billboard over the highway counldn't be more correct or more shocking!!

That was definitely an ad to go positive! And here is why, I have a long time friend who has a boyfriend that is a micro-biologist. Joe.
Joe has found the only protein on the surface of HIV that does not mutate! What does this mean? It is the key to turning off the virus; all strains. He has cured symtomatic chimps of the disease. He has spent the last 10 years trying to get support so he can put this through Human trials at the NIH.

He has been blocked by every major big Pharma on the globe!!!

Big Pharma to my shocking realization would rather have YOU ALL on a 15 pill cocktail for 15 years instead of a 6 week cure. WHY??? Think of the income! Now how ugly is that?

When the institutions that were set up to help us are now preying on us what have we left?

Brent sorry you are making this discovery now in life, but I had friends back in the 80's I railled against and they just screwed up their face into mine and said "IF my numbers up my numbers up!"

And it turned out it was.

You can't take on the worry for these friends since they aren't even bothering to do that for themselves, your Mom is right. And so too is Survival of the Fittest. That applies not to just brawn but also brain power. If you think you're doomed and beyond help then you probably are.

I think you should take stock in your self, your choices and the nice person you are. The rest well its their problem really. That's a hard truth to swallow I know, but at least you have your health and are not dependent on some Big Pharma making money off your illness.

Living well is the best revenge!
 

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