The beginning of the end of detergent twins?

[joeekaitis]

All of Purex's liquid detergents and their Classic Powder are now wearing a "FOR ALL MACHINES INCLUDING HE" badge. Since just about all concentrated and ultra-concentrated liquid detergents are low-sudsing, you think other manufacturers will do the same and offer one detergent for all machines, or will some ::cough:: P&G ::cough:: continue to rip off its customers by selling a marginally different formula for 50% to 75% more just because it's labeled "HE"? Or will they ridicule the idea as appealing to the penny-wise but pound-foolish, you know, the "buy this and you're not just cheap but stupid, too" theme?

http://www.purex.com

 

[joe_in_philly]

Do HE detergents cost more where you live? While HE detergents used to cost more per use when they first came out (less loads per container), for several years now, the HE and non-HE versions have cost the same in my area.  Specialty versions cost more per use, like Tide with Bleach and Tide with Downy, but that applies to both HE and non-HE versions. For example, a 40 load box of plain Tide has 40 loads, but at the same price and box size, the "With Bleach" and "With Downy" versions only have 31 loads.

 

[launderess]

Have Said This Before

Sooner or later all if not most laundry detergents sold in the USA will be "HE" or low foaming.

It simply stands to reason as margins tighten there isn't much cause to produce two versions (high and low foaming)of the same detergent as the market is moving towards "HE" washing machines. Current and future government involvement in energy use will sooner or later make the traditional high dilution top loading washer a thing of the past.

Speaking from experience have to say (again) I *LOVE* the new Tide "Free/Gentle" "HE" liquid. It rinses so clean that even when used in my Whirlpool top loader can skip the extra rinse one usually does with high foaming detergents.

 

[yogitunes]

the hard part is many of us are trained "SUDS" means detergent is cleaning.....and thats what is gonna be hard to get used to........first this brand until they all get on the bandwaggon for all manufacturers to offer HE only........but its no different than when they tried to get everyone to switch from powders to liquids......we will get used to it......

but I also think theres a gimmick manufacturers are up to something besides the government switching all machines to FL's eventually.......

I use regular detergents in all of my FL's with no oversuds issues......the best I thought was when Regular Tide came in the 200 ounce bottle, with 64 uses for a regular TL machine......with the Neptunes I used 1/2 capful.....worked great, no suds issue, and I got 128 loads per bottle.....this change will force me to use HE and a full cap......not a great thing................at least SearsUtraPlus is HE and inexpensive, hopefully it won't be discontinued!

 

[re563]

I was in Publix here the other day and it also seems the Arm & Hammer is jumping on the band wagon of "for all machines". Serveral bottles on the shelf had that same logo.

 

[maytagbear]

It's about time......

If the detergent manufacturers could provide dual usage amounts in the 40s-early 70s, then they sure as anything could do it now. Sheesh!

How dumb do they think we are?

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[appnut]

Suds means detergent is cleaning

I was never trained that way.  But then again, we weren't Tide or Cheer users.  And I always hated the high sudsing foam anyway, it kept me from watching the clothes moving around in the mahcine. 

 

[jerrod6]

Purex liquid for all machines

Last week I tried Purex liquid with Zout enzymes which is marketed as for traditional and He machines. There were very low suds and good rinses. With todays machines the idea of suds = equal cleaning is out of the window because you can barely see water or anything at all in most washes.

By the way this detergent did an excellent job on a heavy soiled white load in my He washer.

 

[tomturbomatic]

The situation reminds me of the late 50s when, with a higher proportion of front loaders and combos around, there were several brands of low sudsing detergent offered. Then as the 60s progressed, those brands decreased in number as there were fewer and fewer front loaders. It got to where All and Dash were all you could find in the regular detergent aisle lineup after Salvo and Vim were gone. Even controlled sudsing Ajax disappeared and I loved the fragrance of that detergent. Then Dash became that budget-brand lemony junk. Fresh Start was erratic in its sudsing; not sudsing much in a top loader, but it could go insane with suds in a FL if you even slightly overdosed. Sears, of course, continued to sell their low sudsing detergent. Now the pendulum is swinging the other way.

 

[gmmcnair]

I'm Not Sorry...

...to see the pendulum swing the other way. I have a Whirlpool direct drive design and I often have smallish loads which is a classic recipe for suds lock with a high foam detergent. Add soft water, and you have to use such a small amount of detergent that you sacrifice cleaning power in the name of those bubbles. I gave up on Tide a while back and use my own soap or Ultra Plus from Sears.

I also noticed that Trend (another Dial/Henkel) product is now labeled for all machines. I found the new version on the Wal-Mart web site, and the customer reviews were quite good. I haven't tried it, but there's another option for an inexpensive HE detergent for those who don't have really dirty clothes.

 

[launderess]

No Gimmick

Most if not all laundry products sold in the United States are from the same big four or five worldwide conglerates that market the same products all over the world.

P&G, Unilever (formerly Lever Bros.), Henkel/Dial, Colgate/Palmolive, and the lot have been selling "HE" detergents for ages everywhere except the United States. Why? Because unlike Europe and the UK, top loading washing machines mainly dominated the market here, but that is changing.

Most of the above named tried simply adding some anti-foaming agents to their high foaming/dilution detergents (that is really all Tide "HE" really was, proven by the fact if one over dosed slightly it created tons of froth), but that simply didn't work.

While one does not expect Henkel to bring Persil to these shores (outside of Miele) anytime soon, the technology and chemistry can be applied to improve what is on offer here already.

P&G in particular faces some tough problems. Tide is their brand leader and priced accordingly (read the stuff isn't cheap), but because of the price points their likely market is one that probably has an "HE" washing machine, or soon will. If Tide is to remain the number one selling detergent in the United States it will have to change with the times.

 

[sudsmaster]

Not all HE twins are alike

As was pointed out here long ago, a real high efficiency detergent like Persil powder is specially constructed to limit sudsing as the temperature increases above, say 120F. I've noticed this is true in my Miele... and that American detergents like Sears Ultra Plus HE tend to keep on increasing sudsing as the temperature rises to 160F, whereas the Persil sudsing levels off at around 120F and doesn't increase.

I've also noticed that some early "HE Compatible" detergents were real jokes when it came to controlled sudsing. Some even got the dosing instructions backwards (and some still do), advising to use MORE detergent in an HE machine, which could spell disastrous oversudsing.

Good to hear however that Tide has come out with a decent Free and Clear liquid. I have also noticed that other free and clear liquid formulations tend to rinse better than the non-free and clear formulations. Currently my favorite is the Kirkland free and clear (not their env. friendly stuff so much any more). I use it on bath towels and other items that I want to remain as soft as possible after washing and drying.

 

[roscoe62]

Tide Free& Gentle HE liquid

Tried this on my towels using half the dosage on a full load, rinsing was not that great until I gave it a second rinse after the cycle finished.I know there wasn't a soap residue in the towels as I was using Persils prior to the try out with the liquid.Wasn't too anxious to try the new Tide compact HE in powder form either until I saw it on an earlier thread and how low sudsing it was.I will try the powder when it arrives.
It is obvious that liquid Tide HE just does not work for me.It could be my machine or my water, whatever it is it doesn't go.

 

[AZREOspecialist]

Using a reduced amount of a non-HE detergent in a front loader is just asking for problems. Mold, mildew, machine gunk, stiff clothing and dingy whites are the typical symptoms of insufficient surfactants and soil suspension agents in the wash. While it may be attractive to buy less expensive, non-HE products and simply use less to tame the suds, by doing so you are also drastically reducing the stain fighting, soil suspension and washer protection agents to a point where you are risking long-term buildup in your machine.

It's always easier and cheaper to avoid a problem rather than fixing a smelly washer once you have one. Don't be penny wise but pound foolish here.