The demise of GM Frigidaire.

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Rick...I only partially agree.

Domestic car companies have really been selling a ton of SUVs in the past years because people demand them. GM/Ford get more profit margin in them. Again, if you run a company, why would you push small cars with small profit when you can push SUVs, which everyone was buying, that had greater profit margins?

I think excitement is in the eye of the the beholder. I personally love a big car and don't find them boring. And to me, a new Lexus is no more exciting than any other car. I don't believe GM ignored the car buying public, they built what sold.

Think about it. 99% of the people with SUVs could be more than adequately serviced by a full sized station wagon. Most minivans can't tow, a wagon with a good engine can. That takes care of folks who want to pull a trailer or their boat to the lake. A full sized wagon can hold 9 people and luggage. It is also more pleasant to drive, and has a lower center of gravity than an SUV or even a minivan. They are less prone to rollovers and very easy to load through a tailgate.

Plus they can be made very stylish. A Buick Sportswagon or Oldmobile Vista Cruiser come to mind, not to mention the old Safari station wagons, Nomads, etc.

In the late 90s, GM still made them, and by then, you could get the Olds model with glass paneled roof, full leather, total comfort. But nobody wanted a "Brady Bunch Station Wagon" or something their mom drove. It wasn't cool. The perception of "cool" by our generation was always either an import, or if you needed the room, an SUV. Everyone I know thinks this way, and when they find I have an old wagon in my collection, they look at me like I am weird (well I am, but not for that reason!)

The problem with the American car buying public is that they care less for the usefulness of a car than they do on what they think other people will think of them. I have no hard scientific data to back up this claim, but my hunch is that more than a few of the purchasers of "hybrids" base part of their decision on their belief that they are being cool, or part of the "in crowd", for now that is.

If I were wrong, station wagons would be flying out of the showrooms right now. But they aren't because of their stigma. This is the same stigma that applies to GM. Face it, alot of people just don't think domestic cars are cool. I don't buy that wholesale line that Toyotas are perfect and all GMs and Fords are lemons. Statistics and observations don't all support that.

Now, sure GM makes some boring cars. I am trying to figure out though how a Chevy Malibu is any more boring than a Toyota Corolla. I guess I am missing something. Again, I think marketing comes into play. The general feeling is that you are cool and plugged in if you buy a Japanese car, and a dolt if you buy GM.

And as I have said before, this mindset is also supported by the automotive journals.

You don't have to go far back to remember how the Pontiac Aztek, like it or not, was ripped to shreds in the press on how ugly it was. But the Honda Element? Scion xB? Nissan Murano? They get a free pass, because, hey, they're cool.

I guess the old statement that perception is everything is particularly relevant when it comes to the American car buying public.

My dad always was shocked at these CEO pay packages, and stock options. He always said that there is an elite group that brings their friends onto boards (as another writer mentioned) that get fat compensation packages for not necessarily doing anything!

His take, and mine, is this. Provide a CEO with a decent salary to attract the right person, say $500K a year. Then, all his heavy compensation is tied to productivity gains that are real and measurable and must be consistent over a few years. And make it so that only a fraction of productivity gains can be the result of firing people or closing things down, and make consessions where money is spent in R and D, as an example, to pay off down the road. As complex as it may sound, it certaintly would be better than paying someone $20M regardless of what they do for the corporation.
 
I'll bet that one of the reasons they didn't want to sell the cars was because of liability issues regarding safe disposal of the toxic batteries at the end of the cars' lives.

By 1980, the quality of appliances was going down fast due to price competition. Just look at how GE cheapened the Filter Flo; even the Maytag stopped making its best washer transmission. By 1980, the golden age of appliances was long over, anyway.

Now here's where I hit below the belt: GM can't even build their own sub-compact cars -- can you expect them to build washing machines? ;-)

Ken
 
General Motors

I once read a quote from someone, GM does not build cars,We build Careers. I do not know who should be credited. If your old enough to remember the late 70's when there were car haulers Full of unsold and very nice Cadillacs, gas was high then too and in short supply, we waited in line to get it. I am not a Professor Emeritus, but you had to see it coming around again when every driveway had at least one giant SUV in it. Guess the old GM management team was long retired not to see this mess, Guzzlers and high gas prices coming down the pike. just my 2 cents.
 
To each his own Kevin. But please do not forget this:
I worked for a Cadillac dealer from 1984 to 1986. And I worked for an Oldsmobile dealer from 1986 until 1998. I was the service manager for both dealerships. I spoke with the people from both divisions, the zone managers,the bigshots from GM, and attended the annual auto shows in Chicago and Detroit every year. Also spoke to our customers every day.Most were not very happy, and did not intend to buy another GM car.
I got out in 1998, before Oldsmobile was pulled from the GM line. I saw the writing on the wall.
 
GM and the EV-1

So GM invested a lot of money developing the EV-1. Billions of dollars down the drain, and a little mostly-plastic electric car to show for it.

So how does GM go about recouping its billion-dollar investment?

The EV-1 finally makes it onto the market, as a lease-only vehicle. That drastically reduces its appeal right there...leasing accounts for less than half of all new vehicles.

GM claims nobody wanted them. On the contrary, there was a huge waiting list of people who wanted to lease them, and put down deposits, but were never given the chance to take delivery. GM actually took back leased cars from paying customers and turned their money down.

GM claims people hated them. On the contrary, lessees protested when GM took them back early.

Owners offered GM millions of dollars to buy the cars, offered to sign liability waivers, and offered to absolve GM of all responsibility for maintenance and parts. But no, GM left the money on the table, ignored its paying customers, paid extra to have the cars hauled away, and paid again to have them crushed into oblivion.

GM had nothing to gain by destroying the cars. It had already lost billions, but that wasn't enough.

I, too, grew up with GM. Not the GM of the '50s and '60s, but GM of the 80s. I will never buy GM, not after the frustration and aggravation I saw my parents go through with GM's products and dealers. Yeah, yeah, "we're better, we've changed, our products aren't crap!" Tell it to my kids if you're still in business, they might listen.

I do like GM's engines and styling...but only in magazines, not in my driveway. I admire the Corvettes, but I drive a Toyota.
 
Oh, what have I started here?! Talking about a documentary I did not even see yet (I think, thanks to Rick).

Portendere:
I believe in the movie (you can see the trailer on the web site) they say the reason for the destruction is that GM realized that the electric motor did not need the oil changes, oil filters, coolant service, and thanks to the car's regenerative braking, brake pads only rarely. They make money off all that service by the dealers and Jiffy Lube was probably mad too. The oil companies also did not want to see a car that uses no gasoline become popular.

I also see a worse scenario: It might be possible for a pharmacy or grocery store to offer home delivery using the EV1 as they could probably afford the extra electricity more so than the price of gas. If people could have things delivered to them, and if they had access to public transportation, they might -- Oh, God forbid-- Decide that they could live without a car at all! There is a small but growing movement of people who live, as they put it, Car Free! Does anybody here do that? I almost could, as I take buses downtown and work within walking distance so the car I did inherit I use only to visit my sister 7 miles away at church and choir practice. Oh, wait, at that rate, a car might last 20 years! The management at GM would just panic at such a thought! That people might not need their albatross of a product and instead spend their hard-earned money on a home, college education (although most colleges are rip offs, sorry Barry), or an early retirement! But think of all the people at the gas stations, Jiffy Lubes, Midas shops, who would have to be greeters at Wal Mart! Oh, the humanity!

Here is a link to a car cost calculator.

http://www.bikesatwork.com/carfree/cost-of-car-ownership.html
 
I may not be knowledgeable...

But I have two Saturns....a '96 and a '00 SL2....and both cars are awesome, for what it is I (desperately) needed them for, basic dependable transportation.

And I really love the Pontiac G6 coupe, the new Caddies, and the Hummer (I can't help myself!)

Yes, it is true, their smallest cars are now made in Korea by Daewoo...but they seem decently constructed, are well-priced and economical....and Ford has been doing this for years! The Ford Festiva and Aspire was made in Korea for AGES, like the Pontiac LeMans, and the Mercury Capri convertible was imported from Australia!

My Saturns replaced a Nissan Pulsar, which I loved....but repairs were EXPENSIVE. In addition, when I looked at so-called "cool" Japanese cars, I realized that they'd actually plunged in real quality and now had premium price tags to boot.

In addition, I'm unfavorably impressed by the fact that all the popular Japanese models are cookie-cutter and conformist-looking to me! (Although the Maxima is not so bad, and I like the Galant for the money....)

A few years ago, a controversy erupted regarding Ford and its willingness to promote itself to groups of American consumers that had been previously underserved and ignored. This controversy prompted me to take a look at some Fords for myself. I was struck by the realization that there was virtually nothing in the showroom I'd buy.

Now, there is the Mustang. I've looked at the Focus...not bad for the money. And I really think the Fusion is turning out to be a great car!

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you have to go with your instinct. None of the old rules apply any more, and offerings and emerging technologies move so fast these days, that you really can't take anything for granted anymore.

I was in a discount store today, and "Haier" appliances were FLYING out the door. Meanwhile, the new Chinese compact car "Geely" is slated to be released in the US very soon, priced under $9,000 (and China owns much of our debt)....

Look for things to get VERY interesting!!
 
Percieved quality

all this talk about quality and such brings me to an interesting thing I have discovered. and that is the perception of quality in a product wether or not it's actually there or not.

THe most obvious example of this is Bose speakers. Bose rarely ever publishes any major specifications about their speakers like other manufacturers. The reason is because if you actually benchmark their speakers with traditional measurements, they perform very poorly. Most people think Bose speaker sound very nice though. The reason for this is because Bose has designed a speaker not to be completely accurate at reproducing sound, but to deliver sound that is pleasing to the human ear...THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

The same thing happens with automobiles. Japanese cars traditionally built only to last about 5-7 years. This is because in Japan, their vehicles get taxed more as they age, not less as they do here. Because of this, Japanese vehicles are designed with parts that will last 5-7 years. American vehicles however were designed with all sorts of "consumeable" service parts that neede attention every 1-2 years or even less sometimes. This is becaue Americans traditionally get 10-15 years out of a car. Ignore the service schedule, and your vehicle will perform poorly, or end up leaving you stranded! Remember the old Delco "Energizer" batteries that had replaceable and re-useable cells!?!?!? Japanese vehicles on the other side of this coin were build with components that although they would last much longer and be more trouble free during that period, were next to impossible to maintain when they got that far. Ever try to replace MacPherson struts on an old Jap ride. I cost me over $800 to do it on my old 1978 Civic back in 1990, and the car still didn't drive perfectly. Pity the soul that has an early Japanese car.

Now, today, many Japanese cars have been "Americanized" and designed to last longer. They have better paint jobs, true A-arm suspensions, higher grade steels, and other nice stuff that allows them to last for a considerable time. Because of this, the Japanese car makers had to bank on another trick to maintain their edge on perceived quality, and that's how the car "feels".

This is where it takes some sly engineering. If the same person were to drive a Toyota Corolla and a Chevy Cavalier, most would tell you the Corolla is the higher quality car. A technician looking at the guts of both cars however would tell you that the Cavalier is built with much more significant parts....so why the discrepancy? It's all in tuning. For example, A Corolla has smaller brakes than the Cavalier, BUT most people who drive it will tell you the Corolla stops better. This is because the pedal is firmer, and the car dives more, giving the perception it's stopping harder. Both cars however stop in equal distance. 10 years down the road however, the Chevy's brakes will probably need less repair (they're doing less work!) The same tricks apply to steering, where Japanese cars use less power assist, giving the perception the car is holding tighter in a turn (I prefer this too!). American cars typically have more assist on the power steering, so they sort of FEEL a bit looser when cornering. Numbers on the test track however will show you they perform similar. The noise a car makes is also something that makes a big difference in perceived quality. Ever heard a GM "Iron duke" 4 cylinder (used in S-10 trucks, Fieros, Pontiac 6000's and a host other cars)? Those things sound TERRIBLE. These are one of GM's most reliable engines, with many going over 250,000 miles with only minor malfunctions. Many Japanese 4 cylinders have a nice silky smooth sound to them, and some will last almost as long. Someone listening to the GM vehicle on the new car lot however would tell you the GM engine is a piece of junk, despite it's track record!

There's many more tricks to the trade, but it's safe to say that you cannot judge a book by it's cover. As for me, I have gained a great appreciation for European cars because I have noticed that not only is the perceived quality there, but so is the actual quality. I have been VERY impressed not only with the "feel" of my 1990 SAAB 900, but when I've gone into it with a wrench to do maintence, I've found some VERY smartly engineered stuff on it. (as a side note, this car was built BEFORE GM bought out SAAB!)

I'm the same way with appliances. I have found my little Danby washer to be a really smartly engineered unit that the manufacturer has gone the extra mile with. I plan in the future to spend more money on european appliances for "everyday" use, while building a collection of classic American stuff to admire!
 
Cybr,
I read your post and I wonder: If I were to follow Suze Orman's advice and buy a "New, Used" car, would I be better off with an American car or a Japanese one, that is, which would be more likely to be reliable?

One reason why American buy big new cars all the time: High pressure advertising, especially during the local news, telling us to BUY! BUY! NOW! GET A LEASE! Bad Credit, No Credit, we work wonders! We'll Get You In a Car TODAY!!!!BUY NOWWWW!!!!!! When they get to a dealer, the salespeople will get people who want to buy a small car to "move up" to a more profitable SUV, one reason why the automakers sell so many of them.

I agree with you about Bose speakers, they don't sound much better than a boom box and I have read that they are a rip off. But they do advertise a lot and I have known people who work in stereo stores try to talk people out of them and no, they have to spend too much money on Bose. Bose has been known to sue Consumer Reports about their ratings of their speakers so some of what you pay goes to pay for lawyers, not for the speakers. You can get better sound and pay Much less buying almost any other brand.

What do you think of Consumer Reports? They always rate Toyota highly but Cavalier gets a lot of black dots. Why the difference? I do know this much though, Cavalier gets pushed to people with "less than perfect" credit who end up paying thru the nose for a noisy, cramped, not very nice car.

Oh, here's the link about a "New, Used" car:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pfg/e16buylease/art021.html
 
American-Made Pride

I remember my grandfather would have sooner gnawed off one of his feet rather than drive a Japanese car. Having been raised on a farm, learned to drive on a Ford Model A, lived through the depression, worked in The Martin Bomber plant during the war and put his initials on the left-wing inspection report of the Enola Gay, he would have never considered anything but American made products. Although this softened somewhat toward the end of his life, he had a Japanese made television in the kitchen, but he still drove a Ford car - Granada! There was a firm and abiding belief in people of his generation that American products meant American jobs - from design to production to transportation to market. There was pride in what "we" as a country did.

Do we know how to get it back? Are we willing to try? Do we even want it?
 
Good points all...

Particularly: "Do we know how to get it back? Are we willing to try? Do we even want it?"

I may be in the minority in my thinking, but I lay the blame of our current situation at 20% short sighted corporate mentality, and 80% consumer. I know many of my friends here will consider that ratio backwards.

I think of these issues.

I see people coming out of WalMart with the carts overloaded with Chinese made garbage that even they likely will admit most of which they don't need. They could care less about the company's (debatable) predatory business tactics, they laugh it off. They care about getting a $9 toaster.

People seem to be less and less like Gansky's grandpa. American made? Must be junk is the mentality. Few people look at where things are made. It's not the value that people think of now, it's just price and commoditizing everything.

We see this in labor markets, with offshoring things. I seem to be in the shrinking segment of the population that believes the more you manufacture and produce your own stuff, the more secure you are, and not just from an economy perspective. But many people in business scoff at that. As I have written in the past, slavery may be illegal here, but we offshore a component of it.

Again, you can lay some of this at the feet of the consumer. We are spoiled with low prices that are articifially low because of the way things are. $65 bikes are a good example.

People complain about lack of service, but they gleefully slurp out the WalMart goods. No one sees the real value of service, until of course, THEY try to provide service, then suddenly they question the whole thing.

In my opinion, we are at a real breaking point in terms of quality being so poor in so many goods to hit the price point that people will "load the carts up" with.

Things won't change until people respect quality and worry a little bit more about the real quality of items and a little bit less about what their neighbors think.
 
Let's face it....the real problem was caused by GATT, NAFTA, and all this globalization nonsense.

The corporatists have no allegiance to any land or governing body, and will set up shop wherever it is most profitable.

The real problem is foreign domination of our industries and a corporate culture that's getting rich quick off the whole mess.

People cannot know and act, if there is no access to real, honest information out there regarding trade in the first place.
 
I think a big part of the trouble is the "free trade" agreements that we have been entering into for the last 20 years or so.

While globalization is inevitable and desirable, these treaties ignore environmental and human rights issues, and have the net effect of essentially creating slave states in third world nations (including China) and dragging down the standard of living here in the US.

Wages have been stagnant for the last 10 years or so, and are not keeping up with the cost of living. While we have the appearence of affluence, many people are heavily saddled with credit card and mortgage debt.

We need FAIR trade, as well as FREE trade. The corporations should not be expected to insert these provisions into treaties themseleves - it would be borderline illegal for publicly traded companies to to that anyway - but the government sure could. Unfortunately, too many politicians are in the pockets of big corporations.

We also need to do some housekeeping here at home. For our businesses to remain competitive, they need to be relieved of providing healthcare - we should have evolved beyond that by now anyway. Other industrialized nations provide healthcare, using a variety of funding mechanisms. We need to do the same here, both from the standpoint of national security and in the interests of a robust economy.

Finally, we need to get tough with American corporations who use offshore tax shelters to not pay taxes, or to pay less taxes. If they want to say they are "American", and take advantage of the lucrative American consumer market, they should be willing to pay their fair share of taxes. As it stands now, the poor and middle-class, as well as anyone who works for a living, bear a disporportinate burden of the tax obligation.

If Wal-Mart were still run under the principles of Sam Walton (American made products whenever possible) I would be their most enthusiastic customer. But since they are bullying many well-intentioned corporations into off-shoring, and won't let their employees even vote on whether they should organize, I won't shop there.
 
Detroit still has one of the highest amount of Chrysler/Ford/GM owners around, but even that is beginning to change. My neighbor (ex UAW worker and caddy owner) just bought a Honda, I also am seeing more Toyotas as well. The workers were pretty loyal here to the domestics, but with all the layoffs that's starting to change. My elderly Father still has a special dislike for anything with a Japanese name (ex WWII Air Force officer)and would kick my you-know-what if I or my siblings even thought about an "Import" "It doesn't matter if they are made here" he says!!
Has anyone seen Detroit lately? There are a lot of abandoned factories. The new big business is the casinos (just what we need, sheesh!) My Grandfather built Packards, both my Aunts worked at AC Spark Plug in Flint, my other Grandfather was a foreman at Howell Electric motor works (they built electric motors for the big 3) I can go on and on. All those factories are long since closed.. My Dad was smart and quit Budd Wheel and opened up an insurance agency in 1954 and that company is still going strong 50+ years later!
 
How many "foreign" cars are actually American made? Toyota has a plant in southern Indiana,and Kentucky,Subaru is a major employer in Lafayette,Indiana,BMW in the Carolina's,Honda in Ohio,the list goes on.So you could conceivably drive a Honda,and have more of it made in the US,than a similar Chevy Suburban,or Ford Escort,which probably comes from Mexico.
 
I know that, they have been building them in the US for a while now. it's more of a name thing here. After all, this is (was) the motor city..
I also know many sub assemblies are foreign made on the domestics as well..
 
You have to remember..

What country does the money go back to? Great for some workers if the foreign company decides to build cars here, but it is still a foreign company, just assembly done in USA. Sure, you can say there is nothing wrong with all the Chinese made stuff because they are American countries, but I don't think a cheap $9 toaster designed by Black and Decker compares with a Honda made here.

Further, there is no more security in those jobs there for the long run the any US factory staying here.

When I see commercials from Toyota bragging about all the jobs they have created here, I want to gag. PR and spin at its best.

Of course, it doesn't help that the CEO of General Motors said in an interview that GMs salvation lies in the Chinese market. While that is a huge market, the guy made it sound as if they don't have a chance unless they get some exclusive access to the Chinese market, which made me want to laugh. Talk about a putz.
 
2 cents worth

The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetenss of its low price is forgotten
 
Oxydol

I ordered Oxydol with Bleach Powder off the internet. I have to say this is one great detergent! The smell is awesome and it cleans my whites very well..especially when I added a bit of Borax. I highly recommend this product an its very reasonable price wise..I wish they sold it in stores in FL
 
Regarding the Oxydol....cool! When the powder materializes in my area, I'll buy it and compare it to my Coldwater Tide.

Have you used it in conjunction with liquid chlorine bleach on whites yet? Or in cold water?

Regarding fair trade: My official position is that, until there is a fundamental change in values in this country, regarding these issues, and change is first effected on the political front, any further attempts to support American industry are completely pointless. Until that time, I'll continue to purchase items I deem of the highest quality and value, that meet my needs, regardless of origin or retailer policy, and at least let the actual product's merits prevail.
 
American Cars and the EV-1 movie----

I have never personally owed an Amerrican car as of yet.Primarily for the reasons that I saw my family growing up go though with the Citation and then the Pontiac that my Mom had terrible service with. They did not even recall the Citations to my knolege.My mother had come home from work in tears because it nearly killed her(it spun in circles five times) The GM Guy would not do anything for her.My mom thought that maybe it was a fluke, and like always, bought an American car. This one had Transmition problems, electical problems, fly wheel, and the list goes on and on. Today my mother drives a Honda Accord and I have a n 03' Civic EX. I have had a few cars, mostly Honda's, one was a Canadian Honda Civic that was great!!! I put over 200,000 miles on that car and mostly I chaged the oil and did regular matinence and got wonderful millege.If GM really cared about their business, they would take a little more pride in what they would build,.
I saw the EV-1 movie.That was an impressive car. I would have even considered having one.It was the best of everything, and had one very good feature, it was zero poluting, no transmition either. They showed an EV-! being serviced.He Rotated the tires and filled the wiper fluid.These cars do not have alot of parts to break, which is a big proffit for the car companies.This was so much of a departure from what I have seen GM produce. It was better than anything else I have seen them produce. They had decided to be inovative insread of pre-historic. They were perfect for my needs. they felt alot of preasure from the big oil companies. I was truely sad to see that they did what they did to the EV-1.i think that everyone should see this movie. It will make you thing more outside the box, but then I tknow that most of us do.
 
Irishwashguy I'm glad you saw the movie and that a theater in Oregon was willing to show it. We can't see it here in Pittsburgh, but we think Senator Rick has something to do with that. I got into soooo much trouble for stating my opinion about General Motors and the aggravation of owning a car, that I have to go in a corner like a bad boy (me and Suze Orman, with her opinion about leasing). If your mother grew up in the 50's she probably had good memories of GM cars and could not believe that a Citation would spin 5 times. My mother can't believe that tires for the Monte Carlo cost almost 400 dollars five years ago because "I always bought Chevrolet because it was a family car". The dealer told her that the tires cost more becuase it was a "Eurosport, and had European trim" - and expected her to believe that!

We Irish just can't keep our mouths (and our keyboards) shut!. Last night I took my sister to choir practice. The Monte Carlo won't start if it is hot, so I stopped at her house and had to walk to the church. On the way back one of the other members gave us a ride home in his Chevy Equinox that he told us he Leased. Oh, bite my tongue, it was all I could do to not blurt out my opinion about leasing (Never Lease - EVER!!)!
 
Shamless Thread Hijack

Never understood people who lease consumer goods/appliances. Yes, it can let one drive a new car/have a new television if one does not have ready money, but it is just chucking money out of the window. Better to scrounge around a local thrift and or eBay for a cheap used appliance.

Now leasing a car IMHO is the biggest game going. For some people/businesses who can write off most of the cost, it might make sense, but the rest are simply wasting their money.

There is this great gal who writes for the Washington Post, cannot remember her name at the moment; but she is black and was raised by her grandmother (along with several sisters), who worked as a nurse's aide. The woman tells stories of how her grandmother hated credit, and paid all of her bills ON TIME. She would even walk to meet the mailman to get her mail so she could send bills out the same day she got them. On the rare occasions she did use credit, she paid off the amount fast as she could. In short she lived within her means and tought this to her grandchildren. This sort of attitude is how Americans used to live, until easy credit took over.

Speak to anyone who lived through or was born to parents that lived through the Great Depression. Those people knew how to demand and expect value for money, and didn't throw their money around. Just so happens many of those people are now in their 60's and above and are reaping the rewards of good financial stewardship. Their homes are paid for and worth many,many times more than what they paid out. Count that equity, plus any pension benefits, savings, investments and Social Security, and most are living quite well. Something their children and grand-children probably will not be able to say when they reach their golden years if they keep spending more than they make, and not saving.

L.
 
General Motors Blunders

They also f**ked up when discontinuing the Caprice in 1997. Police car and Taxi Fleets alone would have made the car worth continuing. In fact, I haven't seen any emergency vehicles (ambulance, fire, police, rescue) badged GM in years. But that's OK, because I'm sure Ford appreciated the business. They refuse to make hybrid cars, but that's OK, Toyota has that one taken care of, right. They tout that they make some 10 or more vehicles that get 30 miles to a gallon, problem is that other auto makers are boasting well over 40 MPG on some models. So basically when we see a GM vehicle, we see the Comcast truck, the Qwest truck, an SUV, or a fancy car. So quite frankly, until General motors can get their shit together (for these reasons and many others), they are going to be missing out on a lot of customer base. And as far as I am concerned, Suze Ormon is dead.
 
GM/Frigidaire

Just my opinion-the old GM Frigidaire washers were some of the best ever produced by U.S. industry. My mom had 3 of them; one at home, one in our vacation home, one in an investment property. Not one of them lasted less than 20 years, and only one ever required a repair, when a sock got into the pump and broke the impeller. The GM-Delco motors which ran them were also bulletproof; I took the motor out of one of the dryers she owned and made a bench-top buffer/wirebrush machine out of it, and a friend is still using it! (made in 1964). Currently, I drive a 2004 Chevy Astro van I bought new; other than a relatively minor problem with the differential pinion shaft, repaired under warranty, I've had absolutely NO problems with this vehicle, and now have over 100,000 miles on it. I am rather anal about maintenance, as I have been with anything mechanical I own that I depend on. Unfortunately, they no longer make the Astro. I'd agree that greed is the main reason these corporations operate the way they do now-cutting their good product lines, firing employees, making stuff overseas, etc. Greed is a great motivator, but like all things, must be used in moderation. We used to have things like antitrust laws to control it. It is our fault that we no longer use these tools to regulate business; just look at who we elect to public office all over the country!
 
Astro vans

The Astro van was one of GM's last great hurrah's IMHO. My father has owned 3 of them so far. A 1985, 1992, and currently a 2000 model. I have a 1988. Dad put over 200,000 on his first two, and is working on that on his third. Mine has almost 300,000 miles on it! I bought it when I was 20 years old...all my friends gave me heck about buying a minivan. Of course, I had to correct them and tell them that Astro vans aren't minivans because they are built on a truck. Of course, they weren't ragging on me when they wanted to take my van on road trips!!!
 
Speaking of vans....

On my last company car, when we had more choices, I was late getting my order in, and all that was left were Chevy Ventures. I thought, yech, what a car to get stuck with.

Well, the sticker on this thing was $27k, so I was lucky, it was the most expensive of the standard (no additional out of pocket expenses) cars available. This thing had electric doors on both sides, dual air, captains chairs, electric everything, and was like driving a couch it was so comfortable. Getting my infant son in and out was a dream, and all seats folded down. When we moved, all my sheds were broken down and hauled in the thing with no problem. Of course it did not handle like a sports car, but handling was fair and it was not top heavy. I could take 7 people in it very comfortably, and went up a mountain road with my whole family and parents in comfort.

After many of the very hardest miles, with A/C almost always on, I had the front brakes and tires replaced, and a few oil changes. That was it.

What a nice, comfortable car, and while not cheap for a van, it sure was worth it. If in the market for a minivan, I would not have even thought of a Chevrolet. This just proves my point that when interested in a car, drive everything. You may be shocked.
 

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