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The Longest Lasting And Most Durable Dishwasher Pump And Motor Ever Made
- Thread starter Chetlaham
- Start date
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The GE shaded pole dishwasher pump Motor was Noisy andinefficient but motor itself was fairly durable, except for all the times where the fans would come loose on the shaft and make hell of a racket, lol
The drain valve system was always a problem from the beginning to the end. My main point was you shouldn’t put a piece of shit motor like this in a top-of-the-line dishwasher. GE dropped the ball and spending the extra money. Luckily they fix the problem by the 90s and stop using this shitty motor in their models.
Unquestionably the most reliable motor ever an American dishwasher were the Hobart built KitchenAid they were the only ones with stainless steel shafts ball bearings and a decent splash shield to keep water out of the motor when the main seal started to fail.
And for the record whirlpool never used a crappy shaded pole motor in a dishwasher. In fact no other US manufacture ever used one in a dishwasher at least before 1990.
Chat, you need to think for yourself and not follow others. There’s a real possibility that myself and a few other people are going to take over control of this website and there will be a lot of changes.
John
The GE shaded pole dishwasher pump Motor was Noisy andinefficient but motor itself was fairly durable, except for all the times where the fans would come loose on the shaft and make hell of a racket, lol
The drain valve system was always a problem from the beginning to the end. My main point was you shouldn’t put a piece of shit motor like this in a top-of-the-line dishwasher. GE dropped the ball and spending the extra money. Luckily they fix the problem by the 90s and stop using this shitty motor in their models.
Unquestionably the most reliable motor ever an American dishwasher were the Hobart built KitchenAid they were the only ones with stainless steel shafts ball bearings and a decent splash shield to keep water out of the motor when the main seal started to fail.
And for the record whirlpool never used a crappy shaded pole motor in a dishwasher. In fact no other US manufacture ever used one in a dishwasher at least before 1990.
Chat, you need to think for yourself and not follow others. There’s a real possibility that myself and a few other people are going to take over control of this website and there will be a lot of changes.
John
Those motors may have been good...
But they were loud! GE dishwashers as far as I know from the 60s to about 2000 roared and they probably did since the beginning of GE dishwashers.
You are right in that the later models do not hold up as well. GE Artistry we had was about 6 years before it just died. Actually the wash motor still works fine but the draining makes a loud buzz, the heating element is dead (thus the water never stays hot), the racks are broken and there is rust on the outside. So the motor still held up better than the rest of the appliance.
But they were loud! GE dishwashers as far as I know from the 60s to about 2000 roared and they probably did since the beginning of GE dishwashers.
You are right in that the later models do not hold up as well. GE Artistry we had was about 6 years before it just died. Actually the wash motor still works fine but the draining makes a loud buzz, the heating element is dead (thus the water never stays hot), the racks are broken and there is rust on the outside. So the motor still held up better than the rest of the appliance.
Loose fans and seized seals were rare compared to the amount of GE and Hotpoint DWs in service. Noisy, I'll give you that. But they lasted and lasted. The newer PSC motors are much quieter however the seals still can't match the mid 80s pumps longevity wise. Also curious if the new motor bearings can do 40 years.
I strongly oppose becoming a site admin in hopes of banning anyone who has a technical disagreement or contradictory experience.
I strongly oppose becoming a site admin in hopes of banning anyone who has a technical disagreement or contradictory experience.
Newer PSC GE dishwasher Motors, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bad seal on the new ones. It’s only the shift shaft for the drain pump and the solenoids keep burning up. That’s a crappy design too because you can only energize it for about two minutes before it goes up and smoke or when somebody keeps putting one in drain function, the solenoid just burns up.
We used to see the black shaded pole Motors, where the seal had leaked long enough that the shaft would actually rust enough to break off, never seen that with any other dishwasher, a couple DM machines came close, where the shaft was rusted to the point where you could use it.
There was only one thing good about the original shaded pole motor. It made so much heat and it blew so much air around that it would hide the fact for many users that the dishwasher was leaking badly underneath at least until they had water coming through the floor , or the kitchen floor buckled up and your flooring was ruined.
Next to DM dishwashers GE’s were the greatest leakers of all times.
Yes, chat when you make ridiculous allegations about made up shaded pole motors in whirlpool dishwashers and don’t retract it or back it up that would get you banned.
John
We used to see the black shaded pole Motors, where the seal had leaked long enough that the shaft would actually rust enough to break off, never seen that with any other dishwasher, a couple DM machines came close, where the shaft was rusted to the point where you could use it.
There was only one thing good about the original shaded pole motor. It made so much heat and it blew so much air around that it would hide the fact for many users that the dishwasher was leaking badly underneath at least until they had water coming through the floor , or the kitchen floor buckled up and your flooring was ruined.
Next to DM dishwashers GE’s were the greatest leakers of all times.
Yes, chat when you make ridiculous allegations about made up shaded pole motors in whirlpool dishwashers and don’t retract it or back it up that would get you banned.
John
I saw at least several main seal leakers in the scrap pile with the PSC motors in the late 2000s. I honestly don't think anything post 94 onward to today is better than the old. GE seriously tried and won in the 80s.
Yes all GE drain solenoids would burn up after 2 minutes of being energized- a common failure mode in post 96 models where the Siebe (IIRC) timer motors would fail after a cycle was finished and the user set the machine to normal or light next load. The manual starting point for the normal and light wash cycle was typically right where the drain solenoid engaged for the previous heavy or normal prewash. User would close the door, drain solenoid would engage but the timer would not advance. The solenoid would run until it burned open with melted plastic being pulled up by the armature. The combination of the failed timer and essentially needing to replace the entire motor and pump mech (yes you could just replace the solenoid assembly and bracket) lead to the dishwashers being scrapped.
Singer timer failures were very rare and the normal/Potscrubber wash did not start with the drain solenoid engaging.
Yes all GE drain solenoids would burn up after 2 minutes of being energized- a common failure mode in post 96 models where the Siebe (IIRC) timer motors would fail after a cycle was finished and the user set the machine to normal or light next load. The manual starting point for the normal and light wash cycle was typically right where the drain solenoid engaged for the previous heavy or normal prewash. User would close the door, drain solenoid would engage but the timer would not advance. The solenoid would run until it burned open with melted plastic being pulled up by the armature. The combination of the failed timer and essentially needing to replace the entire motor and pump mech (yes you could just replace the solenoid assembly and bracket) lead to the dishwashers being scrapped.
Singer timer failures were very rare and the normal/Potscrubber wash did not start with the drain solenoid engaging.
No other dishwasher ever had such a crappy design
Where the timer would cause a major component to fail, replacing both the timer and motor and pump assembly in one of these GE dishwashers often cost nearly as much as the machine of course they got thrown away.
GE even had to put a metal shield over these motors because when they would catch fire it could set the entire dishwasher on fire.
Chet, are you going to man up and admit that you’re just a follower making a ridiculous statement that whirlpool used one of these crappy motors in their dishwasher or are you just gonna let it lay there?
Whirlpool never used a shaded pole motor and I don’t believe anybody else did either, let’s see proof or you should retract your statement.
Where the timer would cause a major component to fail, replacing both the timer and motor and pump assembly in one of these GE dishwashers often cost nearly as much as the machine of course they got thrown away.
GE even had to put a metal shield over these motors because when they would catch fire it could set the entire dishwasher on fire.
Chet, are you going to man up and admit that you’re just a follower making a ridiculous statement that whirlpool used one of these crappy motors in their dishwasher or are you just gonna let it lay there?
Whirlpool never used a shaded pole motor and I don’t believe anybody else did either, let’s see proof or you should retract your statement.
Right- but timers rarely failed 1983-1994. GE nearly perfected a new design, then subjected it to shameless cheapening and deliberate obsolescence afterwards.
Can you site the reason for the metal shield? All dishwashers had a metal shield until Whirlpool did away with them around 2010 on their standard tubs. GE motors had a thermal protector between the both windings, and I don't think many of those motors shorted to ground albeit my last inference here is thin.
I'm still going on a limb and say both Whirlpool's dura wash and power clean had more early main seal and motor bearing failures than GE did. A motor or main seal isn't crappy if it can consistently last 14,000 hours or about 2-3 times its competitors.
Can you site the reason for the metal shield? All dishwashers had a metal shield until Whirlpool did away with them around 2010 on their standard tubs. GE motors had a thermal protector between the both windings, and I don't think many of those motors shorted to ground albeit my last inference here is thin.
I'm still going on a limb and say both Whirlpool's dura wash and power clean had more early main seal and motor bearing failures than GE did. A motor or main seal isn't crappy if it can consistently last 14,000 hours or about 2-3 times its competitors.
reactor
Well-known member
poor John
Don't worry about John's comments, Chetlaham. He is big on unsubstantiated opinion. As this and other posts show, he goes on the attack against anyone whose opinion is contrary to his. I have always said he wants to be king of this site and his comments are proving this. He wants to take control of this site and censor others who do not think as he does.
Look at the quote: "Chat, you need to think for yourself, and not follow others." Chetlaham, you are thinking for yourself, and you are not following John's grossly biased opinions, that is why he is chastising you.
What John is meaning is that you need to to think like him and follow him...only.
If John becomes administrator of this site, that will be its downfall. That will be the end of an open and free forum for those who love appliances. It will become John's vehicle to further promote his biases and opinions. John consistently fabricates to reinforce his opinions, uses exaggerations and false generalizations instead of data. He presents his options as if they were reality, and they are not. They are just opinions and nothing more. John has experiences to share, but they often mean little when they are expressed and colored through bias.
John is often a toxic presence on this site. This site is to not force one's opinions on others, nor to bully others when they don't agree with you.
He has just given evidence to thus, by his retaliatory comments to Chetlaham because he had the audacity to challenge John's biased opinions.
This is a wonderful site. We have so many talented individuals with knowledge and experience to share. We are here to learn, share and to help and be supportive of each other.
Robert has been an exemplary site administrator. His experience, intellect and leadership have allowed him to create a wonderful site. He is respectful of all the members and has earned our respect in return.
If John becomes site administratior, it likely will become the John Show, a site dedicated to building his ego and deleting anyone who disagrees with him. I am sure to be the first to go, ha. John has already asked for me to be removed asca member of this site. I am one of the few who stand up against John's badgering of others who disagree and the denigrating of our members who don't share his biases.
I am seeing more people who are standing up to John. His negative behavior is becoming more pronounced. As previously mentioned, I have been getting more supportive personal messages from members who tire of John's bombastic and disrespectful treatment of those who disagree with him.
A member should not have to be afraid to make a comment for fear of being humiliated by others. John's negative comments toward me don't bother me and I have no trouble calling him out for his disrespectful treatment of others. But other members do get hurt by his attacks. It's not right. It is not the members responsibility to build another person's ego and support their emotional insecurities. It's not their responsibility to have to endure humiliation and degradation when they post an opinion, and/or state facts, contrary to another member's.
We are all equal on this site and we all have an equal right to express our viewpoints and to share our opinions, and experiences. Now we have a member who is wanting to take control of this site, censor it and "control" (per his own words) it for his own personal edification. That is not right.
If Robert feels he needs to step down as site administrator, we can understand. He has created an extraordinary site, and has put an unbelievable amount on of time and energy into it. We all fully understand his need to take a break.
If we have to sadly say good-bye to Robert, then let's get an administrator who supports and respects all members of this site and does not use it as a personal tool to build his ego and force his biased opinions upon us.
We are here to share, care and learn... respectfully.
[this post was last edited: 5/26/2024-12:54]
Don't worry about John's comments, Chetlaham. He is big on unsubstantiated opinion. As this and other posts show, he goes on the attack against anyone whose opinion is contrary to his. I have always said he wants to be king of this site and his comments are proving this. He wants to take control of this site and censor others who do not think as he does.
Look at the quote: "Chat, you need to think for yourself, and not follow others." Chetlaham, you are thinking for yourself, and you are not following John's grossly biased opinions, that is why he is chastising you.
What John is meaning is that you need to to think like him and follow him...only.
If John becomes administrator of this site, that will be its downfall. That will be the end of an open and free forum for those who love appliances. It will become John's vehicle to further promote his biases and opinions. John consistently fabricates to reinforce his opinions, uses exaggerations and false generalizations instead of data. He presents his options as if they were reality, and they are not. They are just opinions and nothing more. John has experiences to share, but they often mean little when they are expressed and colored through bias.
John is often a toxic presence on this site. This site is to not force one's opinions on others, nor to bully others when they don't agree with you.
He has just given evidence to thus, by his retaliatory comments to Chetlaham because he had the audacity to challenge John's biased opinions.
This is a wonderful site. We have so many talented individuals with knowledge and experience to share. We are here to learn, share and to help and be supportive of each other.
Robert has been an exemplary site administrator. His experience, intellect and leadership have allowed him to create a wonderful site. He is respectful of all the members and has earned our respect in return.
If John becomes site administratior, it likely will become the John Show, a site dedicated to building his ego and deleting anyone who disagrees with him. I am sure to be the first to go, ha. John has already asked for me to be removed asca member of this site. I am one of the few who stand up against John's badgering of others who disagree and the denigrating of our members who don't share his biases.
I am seeing more people who are standing up to John. His negative behavior is becoming more pronounced. As previously mentioned, I have been getting more supportive personal messages from members who tire of John's bombastic and disrespectful treatment of those who disagree with him.
A member should not have to be afraid to make a comment for fear of being humiliated by others. John's negative comments toward me don't bother me and I have no trouble calling him out for his disrespectful treatment of others. But other members do get hurt by his attacks. It's not right. It is not the members responsibility to build another person's ego and support their emotional insecurities. It's not their responsibility to have to endure humiliation and degradation when they post an opinion, and/or state facts, contrary to another member's.
We are all equal on this site and we all have an equal right to express our viewpoints and to share our opinions, and experiences. Now we have a member who is wanting to take control of this site, censor it and "control" (per his own words) it for his own personal edification. That is not right.
If Robert feels he needs to step down as site administrator, we can understand. He has created an extraordinary site, and has put an unbelievable amount on of time and energy into it. We all fully understand his need to take a break.
If we have to sadly say good-bye to Robert, then let's get an administrator who supports and respects all members of this site and does not use it as a personal tool to build his ego and force his biased opinions upon us.
We are here to share, care and learn... respectfully.
[this post was last edited: 5/26/2024-12:54]
Reactor, well said. Thank you. People ought to be able to share their love of appliances without derision or fears of being banned. It is terrifying to think that someone is actively trying to become an admin for the sole purpose flexing power over those they disagree with. Or the hypocrisy of accusing others of making unsubstantiated claims when John routinely states options as facts without ever citing a reputable source even when asked. A reference that would prove John right and everyone wrong instantaneously.
I hope that if/when this site changes ownership the proceeding is done through a democratic process with checks and balances in place so the folks with the right intentions can run the site just as Robert is running it now.
I hope that if/when this site changes ownership the proceeding is done through a democratic process with checks and balances in place so the folks with the right intentions can run the site just as Robert is running it now.
Drain Flapper seal failures
I tend to agree the 70-90's GE were fairly reliable dishwashers. The three level washing action was one of the best dishwashers for cleaning. The highest number of services calls I had were the drain valve flappers(seal) failing ....(little bit of water drain/siphon out during the wash cycle...resulting less water left in the tub for washing), some timer issues and noisy.
I tend to agree the 70-90's GE were fairly reliable dishwashers. The three level washing action was one of the best dishwashers for cleaning. The highest number of services calls I had were the drain valve flappers(seal) failing ....(little bit of water drain/siphon out during the wash cycle...resulting less water left in the tub for washing), some timer issues and noisy.
In 1993, my mom and dad sold their home which had a 1980's, passive filtration, GE Potscrubber with no electronics and a nice mechanical timer. It is still working. I've always hated the older GE dishwashers with no filter, but they did last practically forever.
I have been in trouble with John too...
Because I recommended he get more fiber in his diet. Now I think Chet needs more fiber in his diet too.
As for the GE dishwasher motors, the lasted a long time and roared the whole time too.
Because I recommended he get more fiber in his diet. Now I think Chet needs more fiber in his diet too.
As for the GE dishwasher motors, the lasted a long time and roared the whole time too.
Reply number seven
Wow, chat talk about making shit Up GE motors/2 to 3 times longer than other brands, last over 14,000 hours where do you make this shit up?
Nobody has that date including GE.
Almost no dishwasher motor had a lot of problems until water got in them, whirlpool Maytag KitchenAid have the best Motors of just about anybody until GE switch to PSC Motors, and then they never had any problems either only ever saw one bad PSC motor in a GE dishwasher.
The metal shield above the motor under a plastic tank is obviously there to keep the whole dishwasher from catching fire if the motor catches fire are you really that clueless Chet. You act like you know something about everything and then you don’t know the most basic things constantly.
I heard about Barry‘s rant from others, I’m not interested in taking over this site. I am not going to run this site
But I may have a hand in it and if I do people that start an argument like Barry and start name-calling will be banned permanently.
Barry has demonstrated beautifully that when you lose an argument, you start name-calling and he’s done that he started it. I admit that I got involved in it but I’m done. I don’t call people names. I will say what I think about appliances and if it happens to rub you the wrong way go ahead and block me
I looked up some background information on Barry and found out about his legal problems if he says anything else negative about me I’m going to post the information here.
John
Wow, chat talk about making shit Up GE motors/2 to 3 times longer than other brands, last over 14,000 hours where do you make this shit up?
Nobody has that date including GE.
Almost no dishwasher motor had a lot of problems until water got in them, whirlpool Maytag KitchenAid have the best Motors of just about anybody until GE switch to PSC Motors, and then they never had any problems either only ever saw one bad PSC motor in a GE dishwasher.
The metal shield above the motor under a plastic tank is obviously there to keep the whole dishwasher from catching fire if the motor catches fire are you really that clueless Chet. You act like you know something about everything and then you don’t know the most basic things constantly.
I heard about Barry‘s rant from others, I’m not interested in taking over this site. I am not going to run this site
But I may have a hand in it and if I do people that start an argument like Barry and start name-calling will be banned permanently.
Barry has demonstrated beautifully that when you lose an argument, you start name-calling and he’s done that he started it. I admit that I got involved in it but I’m done. I don’t call people names. I will say what I think about appliances and if it happens to rub you the wrong way go ahead and block me
I looked up some background information on Barry and found out about his legal problems if he says anything else negative about me I’m going to post the information here.
John
reactor
Well-known member
good news
That indeed is good news, that John does not want to take over this site as site administrator. However, it is difficult to explain his earlier words words about taking "control" of this site then.
Here is a copy of John's quote from an earlier reply, above:
"There’s a real possibility that myself and a few other people are going to take over control of this website." Quite contrary to what he just stated. Which statement is truth and which is one of his fabrications? It is difficult to comprehend what he means by "legal issues" unless he has inadvertently looked up another individual.
As others are beginning to step up and state their issues in reference to John's sometimes belligerent behavior, and frequent argumentation, indicates it is certainly not just my perceptions. Just look at his response to Chetlaham above, who dared to disagree with him.
Sadly, some individuals feel privileged to dish it out to others, but they can't handle it when it comes back to them.
Why someone has to get so angry whenever a member complements an appliance that is not one of John's favorites, or they express an opinion contrary to his, is beyond me. I don't dislike John as a person, I dislike his, all too often, negative treatment of others on this site.
We need to be accepting of the fact, we do not all think alike, nor do we view the world in a like manner. Trying to force one's opinions on another, and getting angry because someone disagrees with you serves no purpose, and distracts from the very purpose of this site.
If we were all alike, it would be a very boring world. Let's accept the fact that we are not all going to have identical views, identical likes and dislikes or identical opinions. What is important is that we learn from each other. Checking our anger, egos and desire for control at the door will make for a better experience for all of us.
[this post was last edited: 5/26/2024-17:31]
That indeed is good news, that John does not want to take over this site as site administrator. However, it is difficult to explain his earlier words words about taking "control" of this site then.
Here is a copy of John's quote from an earlier reply, above:
"There’s a real possibility that myself and a few other people are going to take over control of this website." Quite contrary to what he just stated. Which statement is truth and which is one of his fabrications? It is difficult to comprehend what he means by "legal issues" unless he has inadvertently looked up another individual.
As others are beginning to step up and state their issues in reference to John's sometimes belligerent behavior, and frequent argumentation, indicates it is certainly not just my perceptions. Just look at his response to Chetlaham above, who dared to disagree with him.
Sadly, some individuals feel privileged to dish it out to others, but they can't handle it when it comes back to them.
Why someone has to get so angry whenever a member complements an appliance that is not one of John's favorites, or they express an opinion contrary to his, is beyond me. I don't dislike John as a person, I dislike his, all too often, negative treatment of others on this site.
We need to be accepting of the fact, we do not all think alike, nor do we view the world in a like manner. Trying to force one's opinions on another, and getting angry because someone disagrees with you serves no purpose, and distracts from the very purpose of this site.
If we were all alike, it would be a very boring world. Let's accept the fact that we are not all going to have identical views, identical likes and dislikes or identical opinions. What is important is that we learn from each other. Checking our anger, egos and desire for control at the door will make for a better experience for all of us.
[this post was last edited: 5/26/2024-17:31]
So glad I had my daily fiber...
All 3 of you need to take it every day too.
https://www.metamucil.com/en-us
All 3 of you need to take it every day too.
https://www.metamucil.com/en-us
Here’s my two cents, being opinionated along with a ‘high and mighty’ attitude will eventually cause health issues, eventually will put you in the grave. Not naming names of people in my family, but there was a few people who were like that, ended up passing away in their 60’s, not even making it to age 70.
A family member on my mother’s side who was a nasty a vile person told himself “I’ll live to 100 since other people in my family lived that long”, he too didn’t make it to age 70 since he was a ‘high and mighty’ and uptight individual. Been almost 20 years since said family member passed away on my mother’s side of the family.
It’s real unfortunate to loose family members over the years, but at the end of the day it’s a lesson to not do certain things in life or go about certain things in life and refusing to listen to others and stick your head in the sand.
At the end of the day, it just makes me wiser to not be so stuck-up, or be uptight about certain things in life on top of having a ‘high and mighty’ attitude and ego.
A family member on my mother’s side who was a nasty a vile person told himself “I’ll live to 100 since other people in my family lived that long”, he too didn’t make it to age 70 since he was a ‘high and mighty’ and uptight individual. Been almost 20 years since said family member passed away on my mother’s side of the family.
It’s real unfortunate to loose family members over the years, but at the end of the day it’s a lesson to not do certain things in life or go about certain things in life and refusing to listen to others and stick your head in the sand.
At the end of the day, it just makes me wiser to not be so stuck-up, or be uptight about certain things in life on top of having a ‘high and mighty’ attitude and ego.
14,000 Hours
If you choose to ignore all the Potscrubbers in Homes, Condos and apartments still going to this day with no main seal or motor bearing failures. Also ignoring that the main seals 94 onward were redesigned to fail prematurely. It can be measured if you take a look at a NOS 84 seals and one from 98. The new wear ring is less than half the length of the original.
You're making an assumption about the metal shield. Where did you read it was implemented to prevent the spread of fire?
I'm also not sure why you're turning a debate on GE dishwasher longevity into threats of blackmail, that is unless you want to get a rise out of other members in hopes of getting this whole thread taken down so it doesn't remain the history books that someone successfully challenged your original stance. Thats not nice.
If you choose to ignore all the Potscrubbers in Homes, Condos and apartments still going to this day with no main seal or motor bearing failures. Also ignoring that the main seals 94 onward were redesigned to fail prematurely. It can be measured if you take a look at a NOS 84 seals and one from 98. The new wear ring is less than half the length of the original.
You're making an assumption about the metal shield. Where did you read it was implemented to prevent the spread of fire?
I'm also not sure why you're turning a debate on GE dishwasher longevity into threats of blackmail, that is unless you want to get a rise out of other members in hopes of getting this whole thread taken down so it doesn't remain the history books that someone successfully challenged your original stance. Thats not nice.
cfz2882
Well-known member
shaded pole DW motors
Westinghouse Used shaded pole motors around 1971-75?-There was an air duct from the motor that i think went to the DW interior for drying purposes.My grandma had a GE from about 1972-it lasted about 15yrs-not the most pleasant sounding motor:fairly loud magnetic whirring and the speed would vary up and down some from the changing load on the pump as it pumped "solid" water and surf.Also sometimes the pump would fail to start-just hum-shaded pole motor starting torque is low vs a split phase type. This was of course the early motor with the big stamped metal fan and threaded on pump impeller. The only dishwashers I have ever had trouble with is a 2010 Bosch when the ceramic wet bearings of the BLDC motor wore out and a 2015 GE when the seal stuck and the little PSC motor didn;t have the torque to break free-a little "push"fixed that situation.
Westinghouse Used shaded pole motors around 1971-75?-There was an air duct from the motor that i think went to the DW interior for drying purposes.My grandma had a GE from about 1972-it lasted about 15yrs-not the most pleasant sounding motor:fairly loud magnetic whirring and the speed would vary up and down some from the changing load on the pump as it pumped "solid" water and surf.Also sometimes the pump would fail to start-just hum-shaded pole motor starting torque is low vs a split phase type. This was of course the early motor with the big stamped metal fan and threaded on pump impeller. The only dishwashers I have ever had trouble with is a 2010 Bosch when the ceramic wet bearings of the BLDC motor wore out and a 2015 GE when the seal stuck and the little PSC motor didn;t have the torque to break free-a little "push"fixed that situation.
Shaded pole dishwasher main pump, Motors
Hi Brendan, I wondered whether that Westinghouse motor from 71 through five was a shaded pole motor. It wasn’t a great motor. That’s for sure. The shafts used to rust almost completely off those when we would try to rebuild them. The shaft was usually down to about nothing after it had a leak for a while.
You bring up some good points about those original GE motors. I couldn’t stand the sound of them as the speed of the motor increased and slowed down as the water surger through the pump. It was a very unnerving sound to say nothing about the general loud tinny sound of the fan and motor .
And I like that you also remembered how often those original motors got stuck because there was no starting torque with the shade and pole motor, the later PSC Motors also would occasionally get stuck. I’ve seen that but not near as often as the original motor we used to teach people how to get under their GE dishwasher and give the fan blade to spin often times if you go away for a week or so the thing would always get stuck again we used to have people put cooking oil in the dishwasher and run it a bit before they went on vacation ( to lubricate the seal )so they had a chance that it would work When they got back home from vacation and wouldn’t have to have yet another service call on it.
But I do think you’re right that that was also a shaded pole motor on the Westinghouse dishwashers. They at least didn’t make the surging sound that the GE black motors made. They seem to run to a nice consistent speed. We have a 72 Westinghouse dishwasher in our museum with that pump and motor system in it. I kept it as a demonstration to show what happens when Westinghouse copied the basic GE dishwashers. The GE dishwashers were much more durable overall but 71 to 75 Westinghouse was an attempt to compete with GE, making the cheapest possible dishwasher for builders.
John
Hi Brendan, I wondered whether that Westinghouse motor from 71 through five was a shaded pole motor. It wasn’t a great motor. That’s for sure. The shafts used to rust almost completely off those when we would try to rebuild them. The shaft was usually down to about nothing after it had a leak for a while.
You bring up some good points about those original GE motors. I couldn’t stand the sound of them as the speed of the motor increased and slowed down as the water surger through the pump. It was a very unnerving sound to say nothing about the general loud tinny sound of the fan and motor .
And I like that you also remembered how often those original motors got stuck because there was no starting torque with the shade and pole motor, the later PSC Motors also would occasionally get stuck. I’ve seen that but not near as often as the original motor we used to teach people how to get under their GE dishwasher and give the fan blade to spin often times if you go away for a week or so the thing would always get stuck again we used to have people put cooking oil in the dishwasher and run it a bit before they went on vacation ( to lubricate the seal )so they had a chance that it would work When they got back home from vacation and wouldn’t have to have yet another service call on it.
But I do think you’re right that that was also a shaded pole motor on the Westinghouse dishwashers. They at least didn’t make the surging sound that the GE black motors made. They seem to run to a nice consistent speed. We have a 72 Westinghouse dishwasher in our museum with that pump and motor system in it. I kept it as a demonstration to show what happens when Westinghouse copied the basic GE dishwashers. The GE dishwashers were much more durable overall but 71 to 75 Westinghouse was an attempt to compete with GE, making the cheapest possible dishwasher for builders.
John
cfz2882
Well-known member
i almost mentioned the WH shaft rust problem-rust buildup would expand and crack the bakelite impeller hub,really increasing the leak...Last one of these i saw was at the dump in '82 and i took the motor/pump because it was large and interesting 
Grandma would stop and restart the GE when the pump would stick: usually one restart would get it turning.
Grandma would stop and restart the GE when the pump would stick: usually one restart would get it turning.
reactor
Well-known member
what's in a sound?
The sound of the GE dishwashers, with the pre-PSC has come up several times on this site. Many, including myself, like the purring rhythmic sound produced by the GE's. Comforting and familiar.
The motor is one of the reasons that General Electric dishwashers had such a high reliability rating in Consumer's Reports magazine. GE and Whirlpool were both always in the top of the reliability ratings based on consumer surveys conducted by CU in their annual questionnaire.
Dishwashers have a low and constant starting load. As usual GE engineers did a remarkable job of designing the machine to fit the need. That is why GE dishwashers were always a best seller in the industry.
The sound of the GE dishwashers, with the pre-PSC has come up several times on this site. Many, including myself, like the purring rhythmic sound produced by the GE's. Comforting and familiar.
The motor is one of the reasons that General Electric dishwashers had such a high reliability rating in Consumer's Reports magazine. GE and Whirlpool were both always in the top of the reliability ratings based on consumer surveys conducted by CU in their annual questionnaire.
Dishwashers have a low and constant starting load. As usual GE engineers did a remarkable job of designing the machine to fit the need. That is why GE dishwashers were always a best seller in the industry.
GE dishwashers
I remember the GE pumps would vibrate the entire cabinetry in my house. Mine was under the Kenmore label. This was when the dishwasher was trying to recirculate the water after it got done draining. It has done that even with the GE filter-flo set was running in the background. I clearly remember it. It seemed to do that when good smelling dishwasher detergent and rinse aid were used.
I remember the GE pumps would vibrate the entire cabinetry in my house. Mine was under the Kenmore label. This was when the dishwasher was trying to recirculate the water after it got done draining. It has done that even with the GE filter-flo set was running in the background. I clearly remember it. It seemed to do that when good smelling dishwasher detergent and rinse aid were used.
rollermatic
Well-known member
in 1972 i bought
a g.e. avocado portable dishwasher for our kitchen. i remember it had a plastic melmac (or whatever) top which was white with black speckles in it. the dishwasher was nothing like the kitchenaid portable i really wanted to buy (but felt i could not afford.) therefore it was deeply flawed before it was ever delivered to our 2nd. floor kitchen.
unlike my coveted kitchenaid all the controls were at the back, on the top of that cheesy plastic top. the door had nothing on it but the locking lever. i hated that!
it had feet on the bottom on the sides of the access panel that would pop out when you opened the door to keep it from tipping over when a loaded rack of dishes was rolled out. no other dishwasher did that, especially kitchenaids! this was a serious infraction and i hated that!
the detergent cup was so poorly designed that all the detergent would leak out during the initial 30 second purge/rinse that started the cycle. i had to cut a plastic peice from a margarine lid to fit over the cup after filling with detergent to keep it in the cup till the main wash. it worked but you had to hunt for that plastic shield when you unloaded the machine, it was usually floating in the sump. i hated that! but i loved it as it was my idea and it worked!
i remember the motor ran continuously just like a KitchenAid and i did like that! the drain valve solonoid was loud and unannounced and i definately liked that! it sounded like it meant business!
the motor did have a nice purr to it (as mentioned in a post above) and since we were a cat family i did like that!
the spray arm was weird and i hated that! it was stainless steel with all the holes on one side only! the other side had one hole on the end to rotate the arm. that was heresy in my 16 year old mind!
i did like the power tower (i wonder why?) and have to admit that the racks were great at loading stuff randomly. you could really pack it full!
there was no visible pump at the bottom of the tub and to me that was not how any respectable dishwasher should look! all you saw was that deformed spray arm coupled with a large round sump to the left rear of it! i hated that!
the main wash was about 9 minutes long compared to the hotpoint 6 minute wash i was used to (as our first dishwasher was a hotpoint i got out of the garbage and fixed up when i was 13). that made sense to me and not much else on this little green machine did!
think it had about 3 after rinses and 3 prerinses but back then no one cared how much water a dishwasher or washing machine used so that was fine! besides i didn't pay the water bill so the more washes and rinses the better! just like our coppertone frigidaire custom imperial jet action rollermatic in the basement! i used to love to watch those deep overflow rinses that seemed to go on and on!
i later built it in getting rid of those damned feet that would pop out the front to steady it and moving the control panel in it's entirety from the machine itself to the top panel on the sink base cabinet next to the dishwasher. i had also put in an avocado double bowl sink that was popular at the time crowned with an in- sink-erator reversing motor 1/2 hp disposer that phyllis diller advertised! it converted to a built in nicely, looked good next to that sink and i liked that!
i did all this by cutting grass at 2 bucks a yard! it took awhile!
that dishwasher was still usable when that house was sold in 1987, however the plastic (whatever they called it) tub coating was peeling off like the machine had leprosy, and i had replaced the pump seal once or twice by the mid 80's.
it was definitely a love hate relationship between that g.e. potscrubber and me, i despised that thing but then again i loved to load it up and watch it's every move! i would sit in the kitchen and time it and critique it and hate and love it at the same time!
AND IT DID A GREAT JOB OF CLEANING THE DISHES!
(i might add we always used finish detergent and the rinse aid dispenser was always filled with jet dry!)
a g.e. avocado portable dishwasher for our kitchen. i remember it had a plastic melmac (or whatever) top which was white with black speckles in it. the dishwasher was nothing like the kitchenaid portable i really wanted to buy (but felt i could not afford.) therefore it was deeply flawed before it was ever delivered to our 2nd. floor kitchen.
unlike my coveted kitchenaid all the controls were at the back, on the top of that cheesy plastic top. the door had nothing on it but the locking lever. i hated that!
it had feet on the bottom on the sides of the access panel that would pop out when you opened the door to keep it from tipping over when a loaded rack of dishes was rolled out. no other dishwasher did that, especially kitchenaids! this was a serious infraction and i hated that!
the detergent cup was so poorly designed that all the detergent would leak out during the initial 30 second purge/rinse that started the cycle. i had to cut a plastic peice from a margarine lid to fit over the cup after filling with detergent to keep it in the cup till the main wash. it worked but you had to hunt for that plastic shield when you unloaded the machine, it was usually floating in the sump. i hated that! but i loved it as it was my idea and it worked!
i remember the motor ran continuously just like a KitchenAid and i did like that! the drain valve solonoid was loud and unannounced and i definately liked that! it sounded like it meant business!
the motor did have a nice purr to it (as mentioned in a post above) and since we were a cat family i did like that!
the spray arm was weird and i hated that! it was stainless steel with all the holes on one side only! the other side had one hole on the end to rotate the arm. that was heresy in my 16 year old mind!
i did like the power tower (i wonder why?) and have to admit that the racks were great at loading stuff randomly. you could really pack it full!
there was no visible pump at the bottom of the tub and to me that was not how any respectable dishwasher should look! all you saw was that deformed spray arm coupled with a large round sump to the left rear of it! i hated that!
the main wash was about 9 minutes long compared to the hotpoint 6 minute wash i was used to (as our first dishwasher was a hotpoint i got out of the garbage and fixed up when i was 13). that made sense to me and not much else on this little green machine did!
think it had about 3 after rinses and 3 prerinses but back then no one cared how much water a dishwasher or washing machine used so that was fine! besides i didn't pay the water bill so the more washes and rinses the better! just like our coppertone frigidaire custom imperial jet action rollermatic in the basement! i used to love to watch those deep overflow rinses that seemed to go on and on!
i later built it in getting rid of those damned feet that would pop out the front to steady it and moving the control panel in it's entirety from the machine itself to the top panel on the sink base cabinet next to the dishwasher. i had also put in an avocado double bowl sink that was popular at the time crowned with an in- sink-erator reversing motor 1/2 hp disposer that phyllis diller advertised! it converted to a built in nicely, looked good next to that sink and i liked that!
i did all this by cutting grass at 2 bucks a yard! it took awhile!
that dishwasher was still usable when that house was sold in 1987, however the plastic (whatever they called it) tub coating was peeling off like the machine had leprosy, and i had replaced the pump seal once or twice by the mid 80's.
it was definitely a love hate relationship between that g.e. potscrubber and me, i despised that thing but then again i loved to load it up and watch it's every move! i would sit in the kitchen and time it and critique it and hate and love it at the same time!
AND IT DID A GREAT JOB OF CLEANING THE DISHES!
(i might add we always used finish detergent and the rinse aid dispenser was always filled with jet dry!)
<blockquote>it had feet on the bottom on the sides of the access panel that would pop out when you opened the door to keep it from tipping over when a loaded rack of dishes was rolled out. no other dishwasher did that, especially kitchenaids! this was a serious infraction and i hated that!</blockquote> IIRC, Whirlpool frontloading portables had that feature.
GE dishwasher motors
Is it me, or am I noticing that GE dishwashers from 2000 onwards have quieter motors due to the lack of a cooling fan?
Is it me, or am I noticing that GE dishwashers from 2000 onwards have quieter motors due to the lack of a cooling fan?
No, they actually are quieter
I have Kenmore that is the lowest priced in the basement that is made by GE and I call it the KenROAR. I remember GE always be a loud one, D&M Kenmores would be quiet when new but get louder as they aged. But no dishwasher was quiet back then.
Another issue with GE is maybe the dishwasher motors got cheaper when Jack Welch was at GE and that he cheaped out all of the GE appliances before Haier bought them.
I have Kenmore that is the lowest priced in the basement that is made by GE and I call it the KenROAR. I remember GE always be a loud one, D&M Kenmores would be quiet when new but get louder as they aged. But no dishwasher was quiet back then.
Another issue with GE is maybe the dishwasher motors got cheaper when Jack Welch was at GE and that he cheaped out all of the GE appliances before Haier bought them.
In the very late 90s / early 2000s GE switched their shaded pole motors to PSC induction motors. These motors were much more quiet, efficient, vibrated less, had higher starting and running torque. GE's shaded pole motors peaked between 1983 and 1989. After that they gradually declined in quality up until there total cessation.
GE dishwasher shaded pole motor 1967 through 1989
Was easily the worst piece of crap for a motor ever used in a domestic dishwasher, the motor was fairly reliable. The issue was the amount of noise. It made an energy it consumed and it’s very low starting torque
Sometime in the 80s, they stopped welding the steel cooling fan onto the shaft, and they just crimped it on. After that time the cooling fans used to come loose and disintegrate that made a hell of a lot of racket, but the biggest problem with this motor was the very low starting to work we did thousands of service calls just unstick the motor. We used to have to show the customer how to get down on the floor. Take the panel off and unstick the motor so they could use, their dishwasher. When customers went away on vacation, they would always come home and find the dishwasher stuck in unusable, we had a good bit of luck by having the customer put a quarter cup of cooking oil in the sump of the dishwasher and running it for a few minutes before they went on vacation and then it seemed like it was less apt to have a stock seal and an unusable dishwasher when they got home. The other minor issue with the shaded pole motors was the unnerving sound they made when pumping water because the speed constantly varied and it sounded like an animal straining.
The other bad problem with this pump side is GE never could get a trip shaft seal to not leak (one old GE repairman I knew always claimed GE couldn’t get a decent seal on anything as evidence by the number of GE filter flow washers that leaked oil either top or bottom of the transmission )As a result of the leaking from the trip shaft, countless customers, homes had floor damage under the dishwasher that was about the only good thing about the shaded pole motor is all that hot air blowing around under the dishwasher did help dry up leaking water and many many customers resorted to putting cookie sheet or low baking pan under the pump assembly with sponges in it so that the pump would dry up the water from the operation of the dishwasher.
The best motor in any home dishwasher, of course was the Hobart built KitchenAid motors. They not only had ball bearings with decent water protection, but they also had a real stainless steel shaft so the pumps were rebuild easily.
Generally dishwashers with the horizontal motor had less failures because the water leaks would not go into the motor as easily, but the real key to a good dishwasher. Motor is good bearings and good protection from water that was one of the downfalls of D&M dishwashers Even though they had a nice robust motor, it only had sleeve bearings. It did not have ball bearings like all the better machines such as KitchenAid whirlpool Maytag.
John
Was easily the worst piece of crap for a motor ever used in a domestic dishwasher, the motor was fairly reliable. The issue was the amount of noise. It made an energy it consumed and it’s very low starting torque
Sometime in the 80s, they stopped welding the steel cooling fan onto the shaft, and they just crimped it on. After that time the cooling fans used to come loose and disintegrate that made a hell of a lot of racket, but the biggest problem with this motor was the very low starting to work we did thousands of service calls just unstick the motor. We used to have to show the customer how to get down on the floor. Take the panel off and unstick the motor so they could use, their dishwasher. When customers went away on vacation, they would always come home and find the dishwasher stuck in unusable, we had a good bit of luck by having the customer put a quarter cup of cooking oil in the sump of the dishwasher and running it for a few minutes before they went on vacation and then it seemed like it was less apt to have a stock seal and an unusable dishwasher when they got home. The other minor issue with the shaded pole motors was the unnerving sound they made when pumping water because the speed constantly varied and it sounded like an animal straining.
The other bad problem with this pump side is GE never could get a trip shaft seal to not leak (one old GE repairman I knew always claimed GE couldn’t get a decent seal on anything as evidence by the number of GE filter flow washers that leaked oil either top or bottom of the transmission )As a result of the leaking from the trip shaft, countless customers, homes had floor damage under the dishwasher that was about the only good thing about the shaded pole motor is all that hot air blowing around under the dishwasher did help dry up leaking water and many many customers resorted to putting cookie sheet or low baking pan under the pump assembly with sponges in it so that the pump would dry up the water from the operation of the dishwasher.
The best motor in any home dishwasher, of course was the Hobart built KitchenAid motors. They not only had ball bearings with decent water protection, but they also had a real stainless steel shaft so the pumps were rebuild easily.
Generally dishwashers with the horizontal motor had less failures because the water leaks would not go into the motor as easily, but the real key to a good dishwasher. Motor is good bearings and good protection from water that was one of the downfalls of D&M dishwashers Even though they had a nice robust motor, it only had sleeve bearings. It did not have ball bearings like all the better machines such as KitchenAid whirlpool Maytag.
John
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
dishwasher i remember that lasted was this dm kenmore from
dishwasher i remember that lasted a long time was this dm kenmore dishwasher credit to the site owner for the pic i am using since i had the same model portble but in gold color
dishwasher i remember that lasted a long time was this dm kenmore dishwasher credit to the site owner for the pic i am using since i had the same model portble but in gold color
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