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quiet motors, John's diatribe

Jerome,

The "quieter" motors began being used in the 90's model General Electric dishwashers. They also had a cooling fan, but the fans were much smaller and unobtrusive than the previous induction motors that were used. The permanent capacitor motors draw less current and run cooler than conventional motors and do not need a larger fan.

Disregard John's usual childish attacks on General Electric dishwashers. No one asked anything about his opinion of GE dishwashers. All that was asked by Jerome, was did the later GE dishwashers have a quieter motor, and the answer as I stated above is "yes." They began using them before the 2000's.

That's all that was asked, period. People are getting tired of John using this site as a forum for forcing his biased opinions, exaggerations, and sadly oftentimes outright lies, upon everyone.

Jerome's question was nothing more than a platform for John to use as a device to start blasting his biased diatribe upon everyone.

If it weren't for exaggeration and generalizations, John wouldn't be able to communicate at all. A true professional would not be using childish language such as "crap" to describe a dishwasher motor. Especially for the motors in General Electric's highly reliable dishwashers. GE and Whirlpool consistently were in the top dishwasher ratings, by Consumer Reports, for reliability for decades and Kitchen-Aid (Hobart) was not far behind. You don't get such high reliability ratings by producing shabby motors. Even John stated they were reliable.


Most of John's words are subjective, not quantitative. How many here have ever encountered a bad non-capacitor motor in a vintage GE dishwasher? How many have encountered a leak, in a seal, of a GE dishwasher? Probably few of you, if any.

John tends to exaggerate to promote his biases. Just as he used Jerome's question, which was unrelated to anything but sound level, as a springboard to force his negative opinions on you.

All someone need do is ask a simple question, such as Jerome did, post a vintage appliance on Marketplace or proudly post an appliance find of theirs. If it is not one of John's favorites, he finds it necessary to attack and denigrate it, often while promoting his favorite.

As previous posts prove, John is extraordinarily jealous of GE dishwashers and Maytag Reverse dishwashers as they often had CU ratings as good as, and at times exceeding, his favorites of Whirlpool and Hobart Kitchen-Aid.

There no reason for him to have this psychotic jealousy and use people's posts as platforms for his propagandizing. They are all good machines, each with differences that may endear them to one member or another in different ways.

General Electric dishwashers with the pre-capacitor motors were/are very reliable and exemplary performers. So were Whirlpools, Maytags and Hobart Kitchen Aids.

Continually using AW.org as a platform for forcing one's opinions upon others, denigrating others opinions and building one's ego is not what it's all about.[this post was last edited: 7/17/2024-12:31]
 
it had feet on the bottom on the sides of the access panel that would pop out when you opened the door to keep it from tipping over when a loaded rack of dishes was rolled out. no other dishwasher did that, especially kitchenaids! this was a serious infraction and i hated that!

IIRC, Whirlpool frontloading portables had that feature.

 

An anti-tip feature was also found on Hotpoint-design convertible dishwashers. Two legs were extended when the door was opened. Westinghouse featured a "break-away" door hinge arrangement. I'm not exactly clear how that worked.

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to reactor

Thank you for the answer. I've noticed that the later GE dishwashers sounded quieter. Maybe I didn't notice the cooling fan from the late 1990s models onward. The Kenmore by GE that I had used a cooling fan. It had 4 buttons: 2 for cycles and the other 2 for heat dry. The off position on the timer was at the 12:00 position. To start it, all you had to do was turn the dial 2 clicks with the door locked, then it would start. It would occasionally do the buzzing noise as if something was caught in the pump. roughly a year later in 2004, I went to my dad's workplace and I heard the dishwasher running. There was that familiar sound. Then a month later that same year, There was another GE dishwasher that was quiter. This time, the off position was at the 10:00 position. My dad's coworker told me that the dishwasher was so loud (the one that was there before the quieter model).[this post was last edited: 7/21/2024-23:18]
 
whirlpool point voyager

I've noticed that the Whirlpool point voyager dishwasher wash pumps sounded similar to the GE shaded pole motor, but at a higher pitch without the large cooling fan. I suspected it was a PSC motor. This was true for me when I got another Kenmore which was a tall tub by Whirlpool. when my mom moved into her present home in 2007, there was an actual Whirlpool Gold dishwasher there. I remember when she ran it, that familiar sound brought back memories. I'm speaking from experience. The sprays may have sounded different between the GE and Whirlpool built Kenmores, but their motors sounded similar during the wash/rinse cycles.
 
Whirlpool point voyager motor versus GE shaded pole motor

Hi Jerome , There was nothing similar in sound between these two very different motors, the whirlpool was a 3450 RPM permanent split capacitor Motor that was a full 1/5 hp. You really didn’t hear the motor at all in the whirlpool dishwasher. It started quickly never had any trouble with starting to work. It ran at the same consistent speed. This was very different than the GE with the new loud cooling fan. That labored was less than 1/6 of a horsepower in fact GE never claimed a horsepower on it. It was so low and it would look so ridiculous next to any other brand. The GE motor ran varying speeds, depending on load it rattled and carried on when it finished draining as the motor was still running.

It had starting low torque and one of the most frequent service calls on. It was to just actually go and get underneath the machine and give the motors fan a spin so that it could work again every time people went on vacation , the thing would get stuck, we used to have to show people how to put a 1/4 cup of cooking oil in the sump of the dishwasher and run it for a little while before they went on a vacation so they wouldn’t have to pay for another service call to get their dishwasher operate when they got back lol

There is simply no defending the shaded pole motor that GE used. It was the cheapest motor to make it did get the job done but the biggest thing that GE dishwashers did throughout the 60s and 70s was reserve a spot in kitchens after builders installed a new GE dishwasher for a real dishwasher. These two different dishwashers and motors and pump systems did not sound the same at all. Nobody would ever mistake a cheap GE dishwasher with a shaded pole motor for a dishwasher that had a real constant speed 3450 RPM motor.

Jerome You claimed to have this great sense of hearing things but claiming these two dishwashers sound even similar it’s like claiming an air cooled Volkswagen beetle sounds like a Toyota Corolla there is simply no similarity in the sound these two dishwashers make.

Representatives from KitchenAid whirlpool and Maytag all told me at various times that GE was responsible for more than one quarter of their dishwasher sales because once people got used to having a dishwasher and once the thing rusted out or broke down, they didn’t want broken piece of equipment in their kitchen, and they would go out and look for a good dishwasher we owe so many of these dishwashers to builders for making a space in kitchens for a dishwasher.
 
whirlpool tall tub

Have you not heard the Whirlpool tall tubs from the early 2000's running? If you listen closely, the pumps from GE and Whirlpool do sound somewhat similar. The Whirlpool horizontal pumps sounded quieter. This was noticeable with tiny suds in the tub all the while the spray being constant provided there was enough water.
I asked my dad one time, "What does our new dishwasher sound like?" and he said, "Similar to our old one." This was back in 2004. I first heard it running before I left to go to TSBVI on the bus, and noticed that it did sound similar to the GE/Kenmore. It was a Whirlpool/Kenmore tall tub.
 
John's dribble

Don't mind John's insatiable desire to force his opinions on you and everyone else on this site, Jerome.

Now he is telling you what you did and didn't hear. It's the same old story, John is jealous of GE tower wash dishwashers and Maytag Reverse racks as many if not consider them superior to Whirlpool dishwashers. Yes, in many years they have even been ranked higher than Whirlpool, in Consumer Reports Ratings. GE and Whirlpool almost always vied for the highest ranks in reliability.

Most of us on this site have the intellect to know that Whirlpool, Maytag and General electric all produced very fine dishwashers. they all wash dishes well and they all had fine repair records.

John demonstrates the emotional maturation level of a three to four year old child, in many respects. He has to think he is right, and he wants everyone to believe that he is the ultimate of opinions on this site.

John has a selective memory that only remembers things that agree with his internal biases. Especially when it comes to Whirlpool. Anytime he can attack Whirlpool's competitors, or those on this site who have differing opinion, than he, should get ready for an attack. Just like a small spoiled child who reaches out in anger when he doesn't get his way.

Lefever's selective memory, his ability to generalize and exaggerate out of reality, coupled with his outright lies, are legendary on this site. His disrespectful treatment of other members who disagree with him are legendary, as well. John reacts as a child when his lies and exaggerations are attacked, or even questioned for that matter.

GE's motors are the heart of the dishwasher, and you don't get consistently high reliability ratings in consumer Report, for decades, by having a faulty motor. I have used and/or collected GE dishwashers for slightly over fifty years, straight. Never once did I have a motor failure. Not once.

I did recently have a bearing, in one of GE's newer Siemens fixed capacitor motors get noisy. That was the only motor issue I ever had. Period.

The older induction motors were not noisy, not by most normal people's standards. Because a motor is audible does not make it noisy. Although "noisy" is a qualitative term meaning different things to different people. We have talked about the sound of the GE pre-capacitor motors, many times on this sight. It is distinctive. My qualitative feeling is is it is low rhythmic drone, comforting and soothing.

My definition of noisy would be if something inhibits conversation, or interferes with a television in the kitchen, etc. GE's motor noise is background noise. You can easily have a conversation with one someone standing directly in the front of the machine, no auditory competition at all.

John calls it "noisy" as he wants to denigrate virtually anything that is not Whirlpool, and to a lesser degree Hobart/Kitchen-Aid made.

Just take Joh with a grain of salt. He is becoming a laughing stock of this site, with his child-like behavior. However, there is nothing humorous about his disrespect and denigration of our members on this site.

Virtually any site, nowadays, has a few contributors who are psychologically unsound and are present to build their ego and compensate for their emotional insecurities. It's a sad fact of life.

Don't let anyone tell you what you heard, didn't hear or tell you your opinion is right or wrong. It's your opinion and you are entitled to it and allowed to share it without getting told you are wrong by John. He does not run the site, he is not the most intelligent on this site and he certainly does not have the engineering skills of many of the members this site.

We appreciate your comments and your questions, Jerome.
 
Gaslighting

Reactor, I believe the term you're searching for is gaslighting. The manipulation of facts coupled with the disparagement of someones character in hopes of getting the victim to question their own sanity, reasoning or perception.  We all know what we heard, we all know what we saw, we all know what we smelled, we all know what we experienced, we all know what we lived. We are not wrong and neither is our inference, synthesis or conclusions. We are lucid and our reasons are sound. Real world data only vindicates us. GE motors are fine motors and millions of GE dishwashers continue to validate the old shaded pole motors while millions of new dishwashers, especially Whirlpool, prove just how reliable the old design was and how short lived new motors really are.    
 
to chetlaham

I've heard both dishwashers run on separate occasions and I know what I'm talking about. I'm not stupid. I've stood and listened to them. The pumps may be different, but they sound similar, even the older Bosch units. They sould somewhat similar to the GE potscrubber and Whirlpool point voyager. Not the sprays, but the wash pumps themselves.
 
to reactor

I don't believe John L has ever stood and heard a GE tower wash and a Whirlpool point voyager side-by-side or on separate occasions. I know I have. I challenge him to run them either side by side or one after the other, then get back with me. Listen closely to the wash pump. I take his insults with a grain of salt. I'm not worried.
 
Maybe Jack cheaped out...

Maybe some of the reason GE motors were so small might have been because Jack Welch got to GE appliances before Haier did and pressured the appliances group to make cheap motors. From what I read, Jack is the reason so many of our work places and products are F****ed up.

From what I remember, GE dishwashers always did roar and did seem cheap, but they cleaned the dishes.

Still, a D&M Kenmore did seem more solid and was quiet when new, I wonder if people bought Kenmores knowing how cheap a GE felt.
 
FWIW the near BOL hotpoint builder grade tower wash ge-based dishwasher with the PSC motor at my rental sounded nothing like our near-TOL point-voyager kitchenaid from 2008 at my parents house. They were both quite a bit louder than their respective replacements, but the hotpoint stands apart as being by far the loudest dishwasher I've ever used and also somehow the worst at cleaning anything on the top rack, even worse than the point voyager. however, there was none of this 'wavering' that I noticed. I believe that was likely only with the shaded pole motors, aside from that I cannot comment.
why do these threads always seem to devolve into this needless fighting? It surprises me that a person with decades of experience is having their experiences discounted by others.
 
Longest lasting dishwasher, Motors

Reply number 44, thank you, Marco. This is a really sad situation, when you have folks like Barry and Chet and Jerome and a few others that can’t allow an honest discussion of different appliances.

I figure there’s about a dozen people or more on the site who have extensive experience like I do with major appliances, and there are hundreds of other people who have great experiences to share, but the sad thing is these guys I mentioned are driving them away. The other highly experience people they don’t wanna bother with all this nonsense. Luckily, I have thicker skin I guess.

It’s pretty obvious what Chet and Jeromes problems are and I pretty much just ignore them Barry an interesting case he’s so intensely jealous of my experience. He just goes on and on. I don’t even read his posts ( or Chet’s and Jerome) but I do love the fact that he mentions my name so many times, so it can only be chocked up to jealousy.

My comments here have been asked for, the title of this thread was longest lasting motor so of course I’m going to give my opinion, I have not insulted anybody, nobody on AW still has a shaded pole GE dishwasher motor as their daily driver dishwasher anymore.

If all you’re looking for on an appliance site that is full of sweet comments and no substance go on Facebook Appliance site, but I’m going to share real experiences and offer solutions and help where people are trying to fix machines, restore, etc.

John
 
John's dribble, pt II

John continues his delusional denials of his improper communications on this site, he frequently misrepresents the facts through exaggerations, false generalizations, and sadly sonetines through his outright lies. Why? All to support what appears to be an adult neurosis about Whirlpool appliances and a few of his other favorites brandsm Read above, where he tells a member what he did or did not hear. Just because he mentioned that another dishwasher sounds like a Whirlpool. Lol

Look at the lies he has told, and continues to. He indicates you can't place a pot or pan in the lower rack of a GE tower wash as it will block water to the top and objects in the corners will not get clean.

He forgets how many members have GE tower washes, and hiw they are were one of the top selling dishwashers in the U.S when they were in production...fir well over fifty years. Yet not one person has ever agreed with John. We have numerous members, who I am sure wash pots and pans in their GE tower wash, as do virtually all owners of GE tower wash dishwashers.

I have even run two performance tests, which I have published here, with photos, of the performance of a tower wash with corners blocked. Makes no difference in wash ability. All items in the top rack get perfectly clean, even in the corners. GE advertised their tower wash machines as having true random loading, meaning the top rack is washed independently of the bottom rack. GE engineers have greater intellects and design experience than John. His emotional insecurities result in his ego making him think otherwise, and that he knows more than GE engineers, and he definitely thinks he knows more than anyone on this site. Both of his delusions are obviously false.

John doesn't even understand some basic aspects of physics. In one of his attacks sometime back, on GE tower washes, (before he said that pans block the water to the top rack, he stated that tower wash machines couldn't clean the corners on the top rack period.) After pointing out GE tower wash dishwasher had been in production almost six decades, that Consumer Reports would have noticed this defect, ws well the multtuded of homeowners and if course our members,b he changed his life to that they couldn't clean in the corners with the "lower wash arm water being blocked to the upper rack."

As stated he dies not seem to be well versed in some ne aspects of physics. He stated the reason was water from the wash tower "CAN'T CHANGE DIRECTION.". (John use of all caps to emphasize.). I had to explain to him water changes direction all the time within a dishwasher when it is operating...it is called "deflection "

It is so sad a grown adult had to pathologically lie because he has, as mentioned in many if my earlier post, an innate jealously of any dishwasher that gets positive reviews by our members, if it isn't Whirlpool. In fact any appliance, that is not one of John's aroused his ire if it getscq positive mention from a member. A behavior more attuned to a toddler.

It obviously isn't just me, look at the many comments of the many AW members who have mentioned this. John has to denigrate anyone who doesn't agree with his childish adoration of Whirlpool. He also denigrates and verbally attacks anyone who doesn't agree with his opinions in general.
Lefever attempts to make his opinions seem as facts and will lie to do so.

His lies about tower wash cleanability are only one of many.

Look at his whopper about the GE 2800 dishwasher, burning its wires to the control board. I have had multiple 2800's and my parents had one for over a decade, before they moved. Not one ever had even a scorched wire. Had even ine member ever even mentioned burnt wires in their 2800?

His lies about the GE pre-capacitor dishwasher motors are legendary on this site due to John's outlandish jealousy of them. These motors were used for almost thirty years by GE. The motor is the heart of the dishwasher, snd there were many years the GE dishwasher received higher reliability ratings than Whirlpool and Hobart,/KA. They were a tough workhorse of a motor, designed and mated ideally to
the application. GE engineers have much more intellect than John, and the results show what a well designed, long lasting motor GE created for their dishwashers

In my over 50 years if owning, testing, GE tower washes, I never had one pre-PSC motor fail. Look at all the members here who have and even now owe them. Has even one ever mentioned a pre-capacitor motor failure? John forget whinhe us dealing with on this site. They can verify his falsification scans exaggerations as lies.

John didn't even know GE produced a dishwasher with a porcelain tub. He stayed with his usual childish caps "GE NEVER made a dishwasher with a porcelain tub.". I had to post a specification chart for a GE Appliance catsligvshdbprive hom wrong on that one, too.

John doesn't even know how to properly install a KA/Hobart/Viking disposal, as a member pointed out from one of his photos of his unit.

Lefever claims that not one member in this site ysejss a pre capacitor motor as a "daily driver." Has he personally surveyed every single member in this site, or is this just another unsubstantiated opinion by John designed to reinforce his bias and lies.

John is big in attacking and denigrating others in this site. Now he wants to take over the site. He denied this, until I posted his quote saying he is talking to Robert about it. He wants to censor anyone who doesn't agree with him.

Lefever has been argumentative, insulting, and degrading to anyone who disagree mswith him on this site and has been doing this for years. Our members are tired of him thinking he is the ultimate opinion and ultimate voice on this site. They are tired of their opinions being denigrated by John, just to boost his ego.

Several members have sent me messages about their gratitude for standing up to John and have lamented over his treatment of them. I will continue to call John out on his lack of respect for our members.

John does have some experience, but this means nothing when he exaggerates and falsifies information to reinforce his biases. I cannot psychoanalyze John to determine if he has insecurities that must resolves by bullying, harassing and denigrating other members.

Possibly he feels inferior as being just an appliance repair man (which he certainly shouldn't), but out society often looks down on those in the trades, which is sad. We need more people in the trades and we should value them. John has found a site where being dn appliance repairman has potential value, and he abuseds it to bolster his ego by denigrating others, just as he himself has been denigrated. Returning a wrong for a wrong is not something an adult does. If you have to hurt others to make ine better about oneself, then we have an issue of lack of character.

Read some of John's reviews for his repair establishment. It is pointed out that John is an "angry" man and there are other negativities expressed.

I have nothing personal against John, but I do put my foot down on his hurting and degrading others to make himself look good. His exaggerations, lies and generalizations are unacceptable. Other members need not be afraid to do the same.

It seems virtually all internet sites these days have at leasr one, if not multiple individuals who have to build their ego by hurting others. Most of the time it is a lack of emotional maturation coupled with insecurities. When their opinions/lies are question they can't handle it and go into a frightful fit,nas does a child.

These individuals need to be called out on their behavior and it needs to be changed. If they do not have the intellect to override their emotions or their emotional maturation to handle differing opinions, and refuse to change, they should go elsewhere. A neurosis, such as one thinking everyone must have the same favorite appliances as they do are not easy to deal with. However, if they are causing conflict on site they must be addressed. We are not here to solve someone's emotional and/or maturation issues. We are here to share and learn from each other.

There are members who are reticent to make given posts or state their opinions, because of of John Lefever's verbal attacks on them. That is not right. It is also not right to manufacturer lies to support one's opinionm

This is a unique and wonderful site. We have members who gave phenomenal engineering skills, extensive experience with vintage appliances , both in repair, rebuild and usage. Our collective knowledge and experience is staggering. I learn wonderful things from this site, everyday and think the world of our many diversified members. I, and I think most of us, want a site where everyone is free to contribute and one does not have to fear expressing their opinion.

We have one of the best sites and the best of people of any site in the internetm. Let's keep it this way and share and learn from each and foster each other's right to share openly without fear.
 
Like a puppet on a string

Barry, every time you and Chet go on and on about me, I think of the song like a puppet on a string I can just pull your string and you just get going.

So while we’re at it, let’s discuss when the shaded pole GE dishwasher motor came into being around 1967. Can you imagine having been engineer GE when they came up with us incredibly cheap to build Noisy in efficient motor it was around the same time they abandoned, making a decent garbage disposal and came up with that crappy universal motor disposal that everybody hated because it was so noisy that the blades often flew off etc. yes, we carried the shredder rotors in our truck because they broke so often we used to tear those things apart and try to fix them.

But as I said before GE did the appliance Industry great service by building this crap because it made for lots of good sales for good disposers and good dishwashers when people got used to these products. They usually bought another one, but they did a little research and it was very seldom ever another GE.

I remember in 1975 going to the GE distributor in the Baltimore Washington area with my two bosses we were maytag and whirlpool dealer primarily but neither whirlpool nor Maytag made really great ranges. Maytag didn’t have them at all, of course at this time and so we decided to meet with the GE representatives to see if it was worth signing up with GE to carry their ranges mainly maybe a few refrigerators. I remember the sales representative from GE telling us he said yes I know you just want our ranges and refrigerators, but he said we would have to display everything. He said there are many dealers that of course didn’t sell their junkie dishwashers and disposers. He acknowledged that they were very poor in that appliance area but he said we would have to display them so we declined any GE products at all on our showroom because my bosses both agreed that we would never ever be able to sell either their disposer or their dishwasher because we had a good reputation and would not inflict that on anybody .

John
 
poor John

I know you can't help your childish reactions to anyone who makes positive comments on any appliances but your favorites. I don't mean to laugh at you as you do appear to have a serious emotional maturation issue. However, you truly are becoming the laughing stock of this site.

You don't have the intellect to overcome your childish emotions when people give positive affirmations to GE snd Maytag reverse dishwashers, you just can handle those praises not going to Whirlpool. A strange thing for an adult to do. You remind me of a little boy who gets in a fight with another little boy and says such jevenile comments as "My dog is smarter than your dog."

You are supposedly a grown man but you cry and boo hoo when someone likes another appliance than one of your favorites, or when someone disagrees with one of your opinions. Then you spout lies, exaggerations and misrepresentations to support your opinions. You continually try to present your opinions as facts, and they are not. They are just opinions support by lies and misrepresentation.

You disrespect everyone on this site when you lie, exaggerate and speak in false generalizations. Intelligent people don't behave that way.

Then you get upset at people's reactions to your disrespect.

It's no one one fault on this site that you have emotional insecurities. Having an these insecuritues is bad enough, but over something as innocuous as a dishwasher brand is almost beyond belief. Using this site to build your ego is an abuse of the site. Hurting others to make yourself feel superior not only shows lack of character but indicates your insecurities are your driving force.

Getting angry as a small child does because someone doesn't like what you like is not becoming to an adult. You apparently don't live in enough of a reality to view yourself as other do. I do worry about you as you seem to be getting worse. Even your customers are leaving reviews that they see you as a troubled individual.

Telling Robert you want to take control of this site reinforces your need for this site to utilize it as a tool for building your ego and further forcing your opinions on others. You want to dominate the site and demonstrate to others that you have the ultimate opinion.

In the process you are disrespecting the site and disrespecting the members. You just can't handle it when someone disagrees with you or likes something you don't.
You are in your seventies now and it's high time you start to get a life and behave as an adult. If you can't do this then you are going to have to accept the consequence of your actions.
 
Of Course

GE knew their plastisol dishwashers leaked and rusted. That was known and discussed openly at GE. Around the mid 70s GE seriously began considering, planning and putting forth effort into building a respectable dishwasher that would rival competitors. They succeeded well beyond their goals. Had the shaded pole motor and pump not been able to be improved to meet their new targets it would have been abandoned and GE would have switched to a different motor. They didn't. They tightened up their tolerances and improved what needed so, producing the longest lasting and most durable dishwasher motor ever built.

 

I thank you John for not selling people those plastisol dishwashers and rancid disposers- it would have been cruel to put someone through that. 
 
GE all plastic dishwashers

We’re a huge improvement into our ability over the plastisol coated steel tanks. That’s for sure. Unfortunately the performance and improved they still wouldn’t wash dishes in the corner of the upper racks and didn’t have any type of filtering system so they did a miserable job when you put too many particles in.

Yes, they continued to use the noisy and inefficient shaded pole motor. However, the shaded pole motor got worse there were no bugs to be worked out of it Chet in fact, it got a lot worse as they no longer welded the fan in place so they started coming loose and breaking apart into pieces. They made a hell of a lot of noise as they failed overtime. The front bearing started to fail. The original design had a cap with an oil wick, and you could actually take it apart and oil them, we used to do that when we were rebuilding the pump assembly with new seal impeller kits and of course we all know that the trip shaft seal became absolutely miserable durability the Late 60s through the early 70s ones actually didn’t leak nearly as often. The drain valve seal just leaked if you looked at them you almost never see one that didn’t leak.

GE dishwashers with the drain valve trip shaft system leaked more than any other dishwasher made by a large margin. I can’t imagine how many floors they ruined in ceilings below. I know of one 500 unit apartment building in this area where the management company tried to sue GE for all the damaged ceilings and floors that these dishwashers caused. GE’s response was to send them cases of new pump and motor assemblies which their maintenance people were installing, I know that particular management company switch to whirlpool as a supplier for appliances after that.

John
 
Barry, why don’t you just go back to writing garbage for the Trump campaign, You’re a much better writer than he has

However, like Trump nothing you say is true you’re ramblings about my personality and so forth are just amazing Nothing you say is true. You would be much happier writing your bullshit for someone like that that stupid enough to believe it and I know you’re upset right now because of the way the race is going.

[this post was last edited: 7/25/2024-06:57]
 
The motors and pumps you speak of are before and after the periods between 1983 and 1992. Pre 1983 is not a fair comparison since the plastisols would rust out in 5-7 years before the pump had any significant time to age. 1983-1992 motors rarely gave problem and the drain valve seals would go decades without leaking.  I've seen DWs from this period of time with very minimal to no calcification around the drain brackets. Main seals still good, at most a thin dried line where one or two drops had slipped out over 30 years- not enough to even rust the motor or its shaft. The impeller twists off with easy when the fan blade is held in place unlike the dura wash and PC where the impeller was always stuck to a rusted motor shaft. Overall 1983-1992 motors and pumps held up well and leakers/bad motors were an outlying exception not the norm. Now if you want talk about 1994 onward yes leaking was a given after 3 years. The seals were horrendous and only got worse.

 

 

Whirlpool can not compete. I've seen discarded Whirlpool PC Kenmore Utlra Wash dishwashers only 5-10 years old where the main seal had been dripping for years ruining the motor. Out of all the Power Cleans in sum I don't see them holding up to the number of 83-92 GE DWs.

 

Higher end GE models had the fine filter in the back (which I think all models, even BOL GSD500s and porcelain tubs should have been equipped) and orbital wash arm which produced one of the best rated dishwashers ever. They cleaned very well in the corners and all around the top rack- I and other members know this from first hand experience. 

 

Overall the 83-92 GE DWs outlasted Whirlpool DWs by a factor of 2 to 3 times. TOL models scored higher than Whirlpool in cleaning thanks to the effective filter, water distribution and very hot wash where Whirlpool DWs would either shut off the heater post 140*F thermal hold or do the thermal hold at the end of a cycle sequence.

 

Yes the final version of the Power Clean module could handle the most food particles and cleaned the best overall, but GE not only got close they managed to produce and pump and motor which lasted 3 times longer.
 
Can anyone answer this question?

What did Consumer Reports say about all this? Current Consumer Reports say that when they surveyed their members that they gave a consumer satisfaction score of 1 to GE, their lowest score. So I guess people don't like the current machines? They love Bosch, the top ten units are Bosch except for an IKEA one that I don't know who makes them. The only other brand in the top 10 is the Bosch made Thermador.

I now have experience with both brands and I will tell after I hear from some of you.

I do remember in the 1980s the Kenmore models made by D&M seemed more solid and less flimsy than GE and Whirlpool, but they did not last long and became noisy and rusty. They did clean the dishes, but probably were wasteful.

Which brings up, John, we have the Bosch now and you said to not run the "speed 60" cycle regularly. Is there some reason for that? I often run that cycle and it does a good job on the dishes. I will use the longer auto cycle if it is really greasy.
 
keep it going everyone :)

Best thread on GE dishwasher motors ever! The pump driven by the motor in question is interesting in that it is "mixed flow" type: 4-blade impeller starts as axial flow propeller and transitions to centrifugal action-no doubt GE looked at jet-boat pumps when they designed this pump.The fiberglass filled nylon material of the pump was latest tech in mid-1960s.
 
John's delusions

Another of John's lies is brought to light as he said, he "never reads" what I write. lol

This site is about appliances. It is about learning and sharing information. Naturally opinions are going to come up, everyone has them. Most of us state our opinions and opinions. That's certainly fine. Others, such as John, often are stating opinions but attempting to make them look as reality, which they are not.

In the case of John's mental aberrations, his opinions are forced on us continually, and often in an abusive manner, to other members, due to his emotional maturation level being that of a three to four year old child.

One important thing is to keep things in perspective. We are talking about appliances, not the end of the world. When a member, such as John Lefever, impede the open and unbiased flow of information and attack people consistently when they do not agree with him, this uss ue has to be addressed.

We all agree John has emotional issues that should be dealt with, he can't handle someone disagreeing with him. He cannot handle disagreement and flies of into a rage with abusive reactions to our members when such agreements occur. If one takes a look at the reviews of his service company ratings, they will see his behavioral issues have not gone unnoticed by his customers.

Getting back to appliances, it is once again looking at things in perspective and respecting others opinions as what they are, opinions. When looking at dishwashers, we have several primary sources of data.

Consumer Reports Magazine provides us with two good sets of data: their performance testing and a summary of consumer feedback on reliability.

Our members provide feedback from their personal ownership or family ownership of given appliances, and for those who collect and performance test machines, we add this data as well.

Occasionally, we have other published data that is shared. We all remember Fortune Businesses Magazine, which used to look at various items and rate what they considered "best in the world.". They randomly chose things. In the early nighties we all remember when Fortune Magazine declared that "General Electric made the Best dishwashers in the world."

When one says "best," whether it be a magazine or an individual we open up the possibility of a lot of subjective versus objective evaluations. That's OK, and can even be fun when we share things, and our opinions, as adults and not children.

In the case if dishwashers, John historically shows an inherent bias toward Whirlpool. And that's fine. If he wants to like Whirlpool that's cool. That doesn't mean the rest of us have to. He shouldn't have a childish reaction to someone who likes, for example, a Maytag Reverse Rack. If they want to like one he need not argue the point with them or denigrate them.

Personally, I like Whirlpool, I like GE and I like the Maytag Reverse Racks and I like the D&M/Kenmore roto racks. That's cool if I want to like these machines as a whole or certain features of these machines. If I or anyone else wishes to share their likes and favorites that's why we are here.

If we want a favorite we do 't have to justify it to John or anyone. If we do want to give a reason, that's fine too. If someone doesn't like our reason they should be enough if an adult to not not be an emotional child and argue about it.

As far as motors, they convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. If we harness the energy into work. In this case turning a pump to move water to wash dishes GE motors did this, Whirlpool 's motors did this, etc ad infinitum.

If we say which is best, we have to look at what we think is best based on our given standards. if I choose Consumer Reports reliability standards as my ratings, depending on what year, then I would state that GE or Whirlpool made the best motors as they both often vied for the top spot.

If someone used auditory perceptions of motors as their criteria for "best" then they may have a different subjective rating. For example John Lefever has a propensity to denigrate anything not Whirlpool and not surprisingly calls GE's motors "noisy."

First, we have to have the intellect to separate motor noise from pump, solenoid noise/rattle. If John wants to call GE"s motor "noisy " based on his own personal criteria that's fine and cool. That doesn't mean he has to denigrate others because we find the sound to be a noticeable but soothing background sound.

To childishly argue about one's subjective judgements is truly ridiculous. Personally I like Whirlpool, GE, Maytag Reverse racks, and several other brands of vintage dishwasher quite well. So my assessment of 'noise" is not based on my emotional attachment to any one brand.

Even my 1999 Whirlpool dishwasher, which I just got done with running through a set of performance tests a couple of months ago had an audible motor, even with it's tuned mass weight attachment hanging onto it. It is audible to me, but not loud. However, subjectively I prefer the sound of the GE older pre-capacitor motors. It is producing more decibels, but it is a sound that I find pleasant and soothing. That's my take on it. If someone else prefers the sound of the motor in a D&M machine, that's cool too. If they want to state their reasons fine, they don't have to.

The point is we are all different we gave different perceptions and various mental attitudes that can affect our perceptions.

If we were truly talking about a " noisy" motor we could have to define that "noisy" Is it a certain amount of decibels? Who is going to state what is the dividing point that separates the "noisy" dishwasher motor from a "quiet" dishwasher motor? It will always be a subjective rating never objective nor qualitative as we all gave different tolerances for what we call noisy or quiet.

John's use of "noisy" is based on his his perceptions and obviously his predication to denigrate virtually anything Whirlpool. His use of "noisy" is a psychological factor to force his opinions on others. My use of noisy is based what grate's on my nerves or competes with other activities such as conversation or watching television. I find the GE sound comforting and a pleasant background sound. Both are subjective and not quantitative. So why argue about it. Any argumentation is solely from a childish mentality that one is right and everyone else is wrong.

To truly test the level of sound that a dishwasher motor contributes to the environment, we would have to filter out the pump and other extraneous noise. What t John describes as a rattle is coming from two things the floating seal in the pump, and the occasionally the rattle of the connector from the solenoid to the drain valve actuator. They are not noise from the sole operation of the motor itself.

GE made a fine motor, from 1967 through the introduction of the permanent capacitor motors that GE introduced to dishwashers to reduce energy use. These motors were in operation for well over twenty years. They were on the GE dishwashers that outranked Whirlpool, Maytag and kitchen&Aid, they gave GE some of the highest reliability ratings for dishwasher in Consumers Reports reviews. Shaded pole motors are considered among the most reliable of all motors. The longevity is evidenced by history and their performances as proven in GE's highly ranked dishwashers.

That doesn't detract from the other fine dishwashers out there. It does detract when John's agenda is to force others to think his preferences have to be everyone else's. If John wants to delude himself by viewing the world filtered through his own biases, that's cool. But he shouldn't expect the rest of us to. But he does, and that just shows further his mental aberrations. His outbursts of anger, his verbal abuse of other members, his presentation of his opinions as facts just reinforce to all of us his inability to function in reality and interact with others on this site in a rational manner.

We all should be cognizant of putting things in perspective and realizing what is subjective, objective, quantitative and qualitative. We all like appliances and appreciate what they have contributed to society or we wouldn't be here .

We are not talking about curing cancer, we are simply talking about machines, nothing more or nothing less. We all view things from different perspectives and we have to realize we are not all alike.

Let's respect each other's opinions for what they are, just opinions filtered through our perceptions which themselves are filtered through our biases. There is no way we are all going to agree on everything.

We are all different and we all have biases and we all view most things subjectively. Most of us have the intellect to understand that we all view the same world with different interpretations. Understanding this can help us to realize why we tend to have disagreements.

Let's express our differences but try not to feel we have to indoctrinate everyone to view our subjective assessments the same as we do.

It's good that we are different for it would be a very boring world, indeed, if we were all alike.

[this post was last edited: 7/25/2024-11:54]
 
Barry here’s your assignment for the weekend

Try to figure out why you are so intensely jealous of me and envious of my knowledge and abilities.

You can Take as much time as you like and use as much space as you like.

As usual, I’m not going to read it. I haven’t read any of your recent posts.

But others may find it amusing, Get to work I expect to hear reports from others that actually read your posts soon lol

John
 

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