The New SQ TL Washers

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Folks, unfortunately for some of us, time does march onward. Everything changes and whether good or bad it is a fact of life on earth. I just try to make the best choices I can with what I have to make them with. I truly don't have a problem at all with my new front load machine. It really does do an excellent job washing, rinsing and spinning my clothes out practically dry. I see and realize it does that with a minimum of water, which is why I use extra rinses just to be positive. Nothing has come out feeling soapy or unclean yet. I save not only on water, but in drying time too. It is a win/win situation. As much as I have always adored many of the old top load washers of the past, none of them come close to the job my new age front loader does. I do think that top load washing machines with an agitator or activator or whatever you want to call it, are going to soon be a thing of the past. They waste way too much water and do a less than excellent job when a front loader can easily do the job with excellence.
 
So Brucelucenta, do you think people who take baths are wasting water ? Do you have a home and do you water your lawn in summer ? If you do then you are wasting water. Watering a lawn or washing your car will use more water than any top loader will.

My Speed Queen can be filled up to the softener dispenser making full use of the wash basket and everything gets turned over and cleaned with a good detergent.

I am softening though about front load washers. I have no doubt the modern ones can clean well. Provided you can get truly hot water with a built in beater, yet people who own a current Queen front loader without a heater are saying they are getting great results. So, I don't know, maybe the SQ uses more water ? Or the water stays hot enough ?

Sometimes clothes need to soak in plenty of water and a top load is ideal for that.

In any case if the TLwasher goes the way of the dodo there is always a pail or kitchen sink for soaking,...unless of course sinks become a thing of the past because they are "wasteful" and we are all told we should use dishwashers because they do a better job.
 
Dissapointed

I feel like the least they could have done was make the tub ribbed in some way or baffles on it. It would have helped with wash action. Does anyone know if the FL SQ's will be able to use more water? Did the nice guy who posted the updates find out anything about that? My love for the TL SQ has died with the new information. It better be extreamly tourqie if thats even a word I butchered it. I think i'm going to invest my love into a F&P agitator washer now. How sad the news of this is. I really don't like the stainless steel/black looks of the machines control pannel I seen in pics, does anyone have any info on that? and how will the two different knob versions differ.....
 
duttyb11 don't be so quick to judge these yet. As another poster said these machines are not even released and many here are already condemning them. I am not happy about it either but I am willing to give it a chance. Maybe these will be good machines,...im willing to bet they will be be better than expected. Only time will be the real proof.
 
Thanks Frigilux, that agitator reminds me of the early Blackstone a little bit. That machine had good wash action from the videos I saw of it.
 
News flash folks, there is no water shortage on this planet. Because if that is the case, where is it going? To Mars? Jupiter?

And for those that failed or skipped poly sci in college, government has NO inherent rights, only the rights granted to it by those being governed. That being said, we've abdicated our responsibility as citizen be staying asleep at the wheel while unelected agencies have grown in power and stature, not to mention sheer numbers.

EPA, certainly. While we regulate ourselves back to the stone age, other nations are capitalizing on fewer regulations and thus generating economic growth and wealth.

Dept Of Homeland security.......right.........talk about a contradiction of terms. Did you know that Obama and his ilk wanted the law written in such a way that if you somehow ended up on a no-fly list, you were prevented from owning a firearm? Sounds lovely, caring, and safe.
But what recourse does a person have if they end up on this list? Where is due process of law? Trial by jury? Answer, there is none. Just BAM! and voila! one ofyour rights, guaranteed in writing, is excoriated. And, god forbid, you get on that list, how or what process so you use to get off of it? Anyone? buehler?

I know, I know I know global warming, aka climate change, aka whatever sounds good at the moment is a huge crisis that takes extraordinary government action. Et Cetera

These so called DOE mandates are not indicative of a representative democracy and do not represent free market economics. They represent socialism at best, misguided governing at worst.

For those that forgot a few basics, I recommend an online course in government 101.
 
agiflow2

In answer to your first question, yes, probably so. It would seem that a shower would do the same job with much less water usually. But people are going to do what they are most comfortable with. All I am saying is that on a basis of getting a job done well, the new front load machines do a much better job with MUCH less water and wear and tear on your clothing and other items and virtually NO lint or sediment. Even when you rinse 3 additional rinses, it still saves water and the fast spin leaves clothes nearly dry and saves on the drying energy cost too. I have always liked top load machines better than front load ones up until I finally got a new front loader. It seems ridiculous to me to have a top loader now when I can do a much bigger load with less water and do a better job than my Maytag top load machine did. My machine does have the water temp boost, so it gets nice and hot too. It is just making top load machines obsolete because of the water they waste and I think we will see that more and more as times goes by. I also cannot imagine the new speed queen machine doing a very good job with the new design, but time will tell I guess. I have used an old agitub Frigidaire machine before and the results were marginal.
 
'bruce'

I haven't noticed--what brand front loader do you have, and it manufactured here in the US?

For decades I was in health care. I knew that people had to come see us domestically and locally, thus supporting 'my' industry. Therefore, I was equally inclined to buy the products that they made to support them...

I must say, this new Speed Queen sure has people up in a tizzy! You'd think a lover had thrown them out of bed or something. Obviously, also, people on this forum appear to have little confidence for the engineers whose jobs are to design good washers. I'm an optimist at heart, and I'll happily wait to see what comes...
 
Thank you washman . In the 1970s it was believed the world would get colder and we would have another ice age. Seems science messed that one up. I am not against "science" only "science fiction".

I have never heard anyone who used a water guzzling top loader say in conversation ' you know, these machines use far too much water, don't they " not once and I am willing to bet all of you didn't either.

I would like to see a consensus poll if there is one of people who want to do away with top load washers...that WASN'T influenced by the EPA.
[this post was last edited: 11/2/2017-14:59]
 
 
Although I run them occasionally, it makes me cringe at how much water my agitator toploaders (currently the F&P and a WP DD) pull for a fill, particularly a warm or hot fill which involves electric power to heat the water (and pump it from the ground), compared to my lovely HE Calypso or quirky Neptune TL.  I have only once in 8+ years run a full-fill HOT load in one of them (the WP DD) and am unlikely to do that again any time soon.
 
I have little concern for using LESS water, but when it comes to polluting water I do think that is a major concern we all need to get involved in. There is plenty of water on this planet, but we can't be polluting it left and right. As for actually saving water, keep in mind how much water that industry and agriculture uses, wastes, and pollutes. That's where we need to be focused, not on what our home appliances, toilets, and showers use. Home use is merely a drop in the bucket compared to the aforementioned. 

 

Most of the drive to save water has little to do with saving the environment, or availability, but has everything to do with the cost to treat it. Treating water is quite expensive and in most peoples case that makes up for the majority of municipal water bills (in places that have sewers and treatment plants). We pay about as much as someone in California would on the water bill, because most of that cost is treating it. Our water comes from Lake Michigan and lord knows there's WAY more than enough to go around from there. 

 

Now back on topic, I hope this new machine cleans at least as well as the old one. Given they've extended the cycle to 45 minutes it sounds like it won't be as efficient in the cleaning process compared to the older machine, so that's something to consider. I do believe my next NEW machine will be a front loader, I have nothing against them except for the awful SamsungTag Neptune we had. I only went for the TL SQ because I grew up with it's Amana predecessor and really liked the way it sounded, and later on learned how well balanced it is during spin as well as how good it cleaned for a TL machine. Plus I hated anything else on the market at the time. 
 
TL washer without a transmission 60 years ago

Things are a bit different today then 60 years ago from a drivetrain perspective. Today we can replace the transmission with electronics and a poly-phase motor. Years ago we just didn't have the ability to control a motor like we do today. Full speed and direction control with decent torque maintenance is easy today.

Our latest machining center has a direct drive spindle, no belt, no back gear, just a 30hp motor directly turning the tool with a big hefty inverter running the show. From a couple hundred RPM to 8,000 in either direction and even with rigid tapping forward and reverse. Things are SO much better once electronics get involved. Our big CNC lathe is belt driven, but again there are no gears or transmission, just a VFD inverter and a 40Hp motor, and boy does it work better then any other machine we have had.

Technology has improved most everything in our lives in many ways so I will be curious to see how this machine works. It may well provide a decent design for those that steadfastly cling to a vertical axis machine. All the discussion of which machine or agitator gives the best action, but nothing turns over a full load better then a front loader, it does so once with every rotation ;)
 
Old Norge washers didn't turn loads over or turned them slowly, but they got the best cleaning scores in the 50s by CR. There is hope here folks!
 
johnrk

The front load set I have is from Sears. It is an LG made Kenmore set that holds a tremendous load and/or any king size bedspread or comforter. It saves me EVER going to the laundromat again for which I am truly grateful. It also does an excellent job and does it using less energy and water and saves drying time too. On a purely performance standpoint it is better than anything I have EVER used. It took all the enjoyment out of watching as I did with my top loaders, but does a great job.
 
While I was disappointed about hearing the news, I trust that they know what they are doing. I had a feeling all along that this new machine was going to be like a Hydrowave, and honestly those aren't bad, I don't think. We will just have to wait and see, but I trust that they are on to something here.
 
# 68 Water Shortage Etc

Correct there is no water shortage,

 

 BUT there is a shortage of clean water where we need it on earth,

 

It takes a huge amount of energy to clean water purify it and then clean it again.

 

I voted along with the majority of Americans to allow the EPA to regulate energy matters, sorry you are a sore loser, but according to goverment 101 they do have the right to do what they are doing, I and millions of other Americans gave them the right to do so.

 

To reply #80, there have only been 3 TL washers ever built that I can think of that had a one piece agitator and wash tub, this new SQ will be the fourth, the first three did not wash large heavily soiled loads uniformly, this new SQ TL machine will be the forth AW to try this.

 

We will get one and do a comparison cleaning test early in 2018, I hope I am wrong but I will bet that this new machine will not wash a large dirty load as uniformly as the current TL washer.

 

PS, [ Hi Bruce ] #80, this new washer is not ANYTHING like a GE hydro-wave, on the GE HW the agitator and tub move independently.

 

As I said before I am sure that GE, WP, LG, Samsung all tried a one piece agitator tub machine and it clearly did not work or they would have used this system and saved a lot of money and built what SQ is now trying to build [ all these washers use inverter type motors and can vary the wash motion ] So if this really could work every one else would abandon the troublesome machines they are building now and go with this simple design that SQ is starting to build.

 

John L.
 
Front load washing machines are great, but I don't know how true this is, but bearings tend to wear out faster in front loading washing machines. It takes years, if not decades for bearings to wear out in a traditional top loading washer.
 
Your bearing theory is probably born from the ill-fated Maytag Neptune series. But those bearings were trashed because the tub seal leaked water on them. I'm one of the few that hung in there with my late 90's Maytag Neptune FL and fixed all its design flaws. That has yielded me 13 yrs of continuous, trouble-free usage.

The bearings are more than up to the task....just stay with good quality ones. The inner part of the bearings only spins at most around 1,000 rpm....walk in the park for a decent bearing even with dynamic loading.

Kevin
 
The Maytag Neptune front loader may have been pledged with bearing issues, but there are videos on YouTube of front loading washers that literally sound like a jet. There are videos on YouTube of top loading washers that have bad bearings, but it is mostly front load washers.
 
John I also hope you voted in and are forging an effort in making US education number one. If we had the best education system in the world that actually focused on STEM and our top minds maybe we could actually come up with a system where mass water purification is economical.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

http://www.davidsongifted.org/About-Us/Genius-Denied

If we applied the same thinking to the food industry only worrying about minimizing consumption and not advancing production to fix a lack there of, most of us would have starved to death by now. EPA regulations are only masking the symptoms, not treating the actual problem.

Second filling up land fills actually takes more energy in the long run, which leads me to think energy and sustainability is not the real concern either. So I fail to see how people seeing (and having concerns about) the bigger picture makes them a sore loser.

With that said I am glad that at least Speed Queen is concerned about longevity.
 
Front load washing machines are great, but I don't know how true this is, but bearings tend to wear out faster in front loading washing machines. It takes years, if not decades for bearings to wear out in a traditional top loading washer.

 

Well, my Asko is 20 years old (I bought it new in 1997) and is still using the original bearings.  It has not had gentle use either!  It has sounded like a jet engine since the day it was built...but not from the bearings...the motor actually sounds like that.  This is the 3rd motor the machine has had and they all have sounded like that.  
 
It is the orientation of the bearings

On a top loader, the weight of the tub and clothes come down on a bearing in a vertical manner and the bearing just prevents side to side motion. It would make sense that on a front loader, the loads on a bearing would be much greater as they are sideways loads. Gravity is not on the front loaders side here, but the Asko probably has larger bearings than most. Actually, I like the jet sound the Neptune made but your laundry room should not sound like an airport.

I have heard it written here that it is not good if the tub indexes, why is that? Does it "cancel" the agitation? In the SQ, wouldn't it be harder on the motor to move both the tub and agitator than just the agitator?

When consumers pay for water, you are actually paying for energy. Alcosan treats all the sewage in our area. During a recent tour of the place, the speaker stated that the biggest expense is not payroll but electricity to run the pumps and compressors. Purifying water also requires a lot of equipment that in many areas will need to be replace. Pittsburgh Water and Sewer Authority will be raising bills because parts of the system are over 100 years old and they use a lot of energy too. So using less water will benefit consumers.

Still, a full washing machine using a lot of water is not damaging the environment much. For example, I learned from horticulture at the zoo that a properly established lawn should not require fertilizer but most people in the neighborhood spend hundreds of dollars on chem lawn which just runs off into the river, polluting it.

Most couples will buy laundry appliances when they have a baby. As you know, having kids damages the environment more than a corvette racing playboy, but when our parents washed diapers in water guzzling machines, at least they didn't leave those nasty Pampers in parking lots. Pampers are the worst thing that ever happened with solid waste.
 
Bearing Life In Washing Machines

The only thing that really affects bearing life is the water seal design, type, quality etc used on a particular machine.

 

FL washers are at no disadvantage by having a horizontal tub, there are countless TL washers that have had frequent bearing failures both in newer machines and in washers going back into the 50s, 60s 70s etc, just look at history, and the cause of failure is ALWAYS water getting past the water seal.

 

If you really look at any washer [ from wringers to automatics ] ever built the biggest problems are when water gets into ares where it should not be.

 

John L.
 

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