The new ubiquitous dw design

[lebron]

I was in Best Buy this weekend and noticed pretty much every dishwasher had the same design. This is not the first time I have noticed the new design but it is the first I've had time to check it out. Who makes this mechanism? Is it any good? When did whirlpool stop making the classic power wash models

 

[henene4]

What you see there is a Whirlpool system, but AFAIK WP has several simmilar, but still different designs in production right now.

They have several different spray arms (normal, multiple versions of geared and driven by water pressure, and driven by motor), different PowerZone versions (non, static, rotating), different filter versions (grinder, removable self-cleaning filter, different removable filter with better self cleaning capabilitys, self-cleaning non-removable filter), different motors (high-power single speed without diverter in the Maytags, one-speed with diverter and I think some upper-end Kitchenaids *should* have variable speed motors).
Further, drying has seen models with and without fan, some fan-models incorporate heat while others don't.

Further again, they vary a lot in programming. I noticed 3 major strains there, all differentiatable by water usage and cycle times. Further, some seem to default to 104F mainwashes and some to 120F, all boosted to 140F then.

Really, the WP DW designs out there have become a clusterfuck in my opinion. Some on here have different versions of those in daily use (one is a KA with the non-removable filter, one is the TOL WP model and one is a Maytag) and I think they have all been satisfied.

 

[Chetlaham]

Power cleans

The none tall tub power clean was somewhere in 2010-2011 as I remember buying one of the very last ones. To me that would be the day automatic dish-washing on the planet came to a stand still. :,(

The point voyager was somewhere around 2014ish as I remember buying looking for a point voyager machine but it was only available as a modified design on the Maytags.

 

[Chetlaham]

"and I think they have all been satisfied"

Ehhhh, if you want average so-so, gets the job done but not stellar. Id still do anything for a new Powerclean. You could load that thing dirty, and I mean filthy dirty and have true spotless in an hour. The machine took everything you threw at it, ground it up and then flushed it down the drain.

 

[henene4]

Wait...

Are you one of the persons who owns one, chetlaham? I don't think so...

There has been one problem recently which fell under the category "misc item stuck in filter", but none else.

I'll search up a thread on here that will show what I mean with satisfied.

Edit:

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?64218

Thread 64218, reply #26 and onward. If that is "so and so", what is good then?

 

[lebron]

Chetlaham and henene

Thank you for your responses. Very interesting design.

I agree that the power cleans are awesome. By far my favorite dishwasher. I would like to get a bunch of these. Some pristine and restored, some for parts. Can you elaborate on the design? When would the first generation have been introduced? What were major design changes? Any significant differences with the kenmore?

 

[Chetlaham]

I don't think so...

> Your thread proves my point. Its acceptable, but not power clean stellar- just look at the spoon, the grit on the filter and the cloudy water in the sump. Run the machine like that everyday without cleaning the filter and watch it clog up. Yes people should clean the filter as instructed, but my question is why labor when a BOL GE comes with a self cleaning filter? In my eyes its not a step forward.

I've used the filter a few times and I am currently on a 2014 Maytag as a daily driver. The Maytag is certainly better, but compared to the Powerclean I rate it slightly above average and the filter slightly below assuming you clean it.

I know this is going into the opinion realm, and I know there are people who enjoy their new machines, but compared to a Powerclean IMO its a difference that can't be touched.

 

[murando531]

If I can add my two cents, with all respect, that load was with a FULL bowl of oatmeal that had been prepared and then left on the counter for hours to dry up. I've done the same in the 2001 PowerClean that is sitting in the closet on the other side of the wall I'm typing from, and the same thing happened because the dried clump of oatmeal didn't break apart in time to get through the sump grate. The same principal applies in the new Whirlpool.

Since that load, within the last month or so actually, I've run the machine with a full load of nasty dishes, plus a stainless steel pan I put under the broiler element to scorch on the cheesy saucy gunk left over from dinner, and it emerged from the machine like I had just cleaned it with Barkeeper's Friend. Again, the filter was removed to find absolutely nothing but a stray speck or two.

As far as the spoon, I had far more pieces of silverware come out of the PowerClean just from normal every day loads that looked as though they should have otherwise come clean with ease. With the 920 and its SilverwareSpray bar, that clump of oatmeal on the spoon is one of the very few times I've pulled out the utensil basket to find even a speck, and when it has happened, it's been a stray piece of spinach or something that gets caught around a fork tine or between the latch of the basket. Not even an old school KitchenAid or Maytag JetClean RR is immune to that. Actually I remember with my grandparents' Maytag RR that pulling out silverware that required scratching a spot off with a fingernail or outright rewashing was pretty common.

I need to update that thread with the tests I've thrown at the machine since that first one, but it has excelled at each one. Even the giant chunk of birthday cake I tossed in with a full load (the kind you find at Walmart/Publix/Kroger, with that greasy thick "buttercream" icing), disappeared without a trace and I put the dishes away almost forgetting I had done it.

Yes, I loved the 2013 Maytag MDB4709, and I absolutely love my PowerClean, and if I pulled it out right now and hooked it up it would purr like brand new, BUT it is a bit of a water hog, unless you use Normal cycle, which is too short to allow the detergent to do its job. It was a tremendous machine in its time, and is still my absolute favorite dishwasher design to date, but I wanted a machine that would be more resource-conscious and run longer to allow the detergent time to work, and I haven't regretted buying this 920 in the slightest. It's nearly silent, cleans beautifully every time, is solid as a tank, and I have yet to "need" to clean the filter in the 1+ year having it.

 

[johnb300m]

It's no contest that the PowerClean module from WP was likely the best dishwasher module ever created.
However, I've experienced on notable occasions, that silverware was not its strong suit.
Silverware is a struggle for any dishwasher that doesn't have jets directly blasting the basket at all times.
And the PowerClean wash systems just didn't have jets placed well enough to scrub down the silverware that was placed in the door recess.
That's its ONE weak spot.
So the fact that a modern WP left one little blob, yet yields sparkling silverware practically every other time, is an anomaly to me.
My filter-based GE has it's own pros and cons. And silverware is a pro in that machine too.
Modern machines seem to have nailed the silverware thing finally. With more strategic jet designs. That's not really filter system dependent.

Yes, WP struggled a little with the Voyager system. It got better in the end of its run, as engineering was able to improve it over time.
Yes, the modern filter WP (Resource Saver) systems struggled in the beginning too. But guess what? They're getting A LOT better.
If Murando's thread isn't proof of that enough, then anything else is pure ideological opinion and nothing more.
If you watch Whirlpool's sales and performance videos which are available publicly online, you will see the rigorous engineering and testing their dishwasher platforms go through.
They throw some disgusting things at them, and they perform almost miraculously.
Furthermore, in their OWN manuals, they don't even recommend hand cleaning the filter screen except maybe 1-2 times a year depending on your use.
Considering I have to clean my GE filter at least once a month, I consider WPs solutions to the "filter problem" as SOLVED.

https://video.whirlpoolcorpsalesaca...m+-+Whirlpool+Dishwashers/1_lkkaseq7/24344102

https://video.whirlpoolcorpsalesaca...il+Testing+-+Whirlpool+Dishwashers/1_ralj8rc4

https://video.whirlpoolcorpsalesacademy.com/media/Whirlpool+Dishwasher+Pizza+%26+Cake+Demo+2012/1_49zgkp12/24344102

 

[Chetlaham]

Ok, based on that thread I can agree the new WP design is doing well. But, what Power Clean left yibbles behind on the bottom of the grates?

 

[Chetlaham]

Normal cycle time on power clean

@murando, how long is the main wash in the normal cycle as apposed to the heavy cycle? Yes power cleans tend to have short cycle times with high temp incoming water, but one has to remember the power clean is from an area of phosphated detergents and short main washes. Newer detergents are naturally being designed for long run times as main washes get longer on newer machines.

 

[mark_wpduet]

I'm not sure if I've ever used

a powerclean. I do know that one place I lived for a year in the mid 90s had a Kenmore (I'm almost sure it was a WP made machine) and relatively new at that time. Then I lived in another house that also had a Kenmore very similar. They were both great dishwashers. I'm thinking they were powerclean but I'm not sure. My 2014 Maytag is just as good as those were though. I honestly don't see any difference in performance. I will say the WORST dishwasher I ever used was a Magic Chef. I'm not sure what year it was made, but it definitely looked 80s, possibly even 70s - but I'm thinking 80s. I HATED IT!

 

[brucelucenta]

The inside of the dishwasher you pictured is made by Whirlpool and is a Kitchenaid. I have one of those that is a Kenmore. It is an excellent machine and cleans quite well if loaded correctly. Never have had anything that cleaned as well or held as big a load, including odd shaped items like electric fry pans, than my old Maytag made Jennaire dishwasher from about 2000. That was by far the best dishwasher I ever owned. It was even before they did away with the shower tower that came up through the middle for the top dishes. I could pack it completely full and it cleaned everything.[this post was last edited: 4/6/2017-06:35]

 

[washerdude]

I own the the Kenmore 15113 which is one of the earlier models with the filter. On occasion there have been some things especially silverware with food still stuck to them. For a while I acquired a Whirlpool durawash dishwasher (which i still own), when our main dishwasher was down.

On the first load one spoon still came out dirty, but then again the silverware basket is a literal basket..its really hard to separate spoons and forks and keep them from touching. So I then put in the silverware basket from our main dishwasher, and ever since spoons forks and knives have always shined. On the spray arm I do notice there are water jets at the very edge of the spray arm. Perhaps this aids in reaching the edges of the rack and the silverware?

 

[askolover]

Yeah Bruce, my '97 Maytag with the shower tower was an awesome machine too.  Did your JA version have stainless tub?  I'd like to find a stainless tub version of my Jetclean.  Truthfully it would out clean my Kitchenaid KUDI23. 

 

[jerrod6]

Hobart KitchenAid

That wash arm design was on my mother's 1971 Hobart KichenAid Superba dishwasher except the center hub was bigger and contained spray jets. It did a prewash, main wash and 3 rinses in 22 minutes, then used forced heated air to dry for 19 minutes. Things have changed since 1971,for one thing her DW had a 1/2 hp motor and used 13.5 gallons per load, so that wash arm design hurled the water against the dishes. The filter on that model was mostly self cleaning, so no gunk on dishes and no messed up filter.

 

[Chetlaham]

13.5 gallons

Still less than hand-washing or pre-rinsing.

 

[panthera]

There's still

no way around it, a vintage GE or Maytag will wash really dirty stuff far better than the two drops of water machines using Luke warm water today.

 

[johnb300m]

What really constitutes as better?
How do you quantify "better?"

My 2015 GE Profile dishwasher yields a clean load after every cycle?
What is honestly better than "all clean" yet using 1/4 the water?