Tide Cold Water

[pturo]

I've been using Tide Cold water with really good results. I just wonder why they dont put "Antibacterial" agents in it like P&G's Dawn for dishes. I think that certain loads like nasty kitchen dishtowels and underwear loads might not get the bacteria out in cold, so they go in hot. Would anti-bacterial agents work in cold? I wrote them about this idea, I will let you know what they say.

 

[agiflow]

If the machine you have has a temp controlled cold wash,..it should not really be a problem. I know what you mean though about washing whites in cold, just don't seem right does it?

 

[frigilux]

I'm a huge fan of Tide CW. I used it exclusively for about 6 months until just recently. I always used liquid chlorine bleach with it for white loads to disinfect.

Now I'm using some recently acquired SA8 for my white loads (in hot water). But I have to say there was never a problem with greying whites or anything with Tide CW. It's a very good detergent. It didn't do so well on its own in my very tough stain removal test (see Stain Removal Test thread), but if you couple it with bleach, there's no topping it.

 

[gyrafoam]

IMO The anti-bacterial "agents" in Dawn have questionable value and I would not expect they are strong enough to do much good-----but they do imply something---a good sales tool.

You could get anti-bacterial and /or anti-viral agents that work in cold-------but the big question is how strong and for what purpose---and how long must they be in contact with the surface to be disinfected to do any good?

There is also the issue of trade-off. Every time you go to add something you have to take something away. Only so much is going to fit in that container. So does the manufacturer sacrifice cleaning compounds for the germacides?
That is why there are so many additives---so one need not sacrifice the cleaning ability one originally intended to get.

You can get that old Lysol concentrate and add a bit of that to your wash per the dilution instructions on the label.

Having said that---I am very skeptical of the ability to disenfect kitchen towels using cold water wash as they usually harbor many different types of oils and grease.
Hard to beat hot water and ammonia(a poor disinfectant) in combination with a good detergent,for grease-cutting ability.

ALSO, as many of us have seen first hand, when tearing down an old machine the signs of cronic cold water washing are always VERY nasty!
A nasty black slime that coats many of the interior parts especially towards the top of the inner tub. YUK!
Talk about bacteria!!!!!

 

[oxydolfan1]

I wonder...do the Australian washing machines get that same buildup? I know they favor cold water washing....

I like the Tide Coldwater powder a lot...I guess my main criticism would be the sudsiness.

 

[brisnat81]

Never usually a slimy build up

It tends to be more of a crust as such and scale. If you pull the tub out of machine when its dry, it just all scrapes off in flakes.

Fabric softener tends to cause more of the problem, because without hot water its impossible to remove the build up. The biggest scum I've noticed with modern machines is usually a ring of film, like in the bath around the top of the inner and outer tub.

It must have something to do with how our detergents are formulated, because its very unusal to get a buildup of slime or mould.

 

[brisnat81]

In relation to Germs

If you bake your towels or the likes in the dryer, or line dry them in the sun, any of the residual bacteria get baked away.

I grew up in a house where nappys were rinsed, soaked in Miltons and then washed in lukewarm water. With all the washing thats always been in cold, I was never any sicker than anyone of my friends growing up.

I would bet as well, that unless you've got your hot water turned up to 70-80degC, the temp of your TL washer by the time its full is down around 40-50degC Thats not hot enough to kill anything during a 10 minute wash.

It all boils down to what we're used to, and our mindset. Now I've got a FL machine, I wash darks at 40C and Towels, whites, sheets etc at 55C. That way I manage get brilliant whites with detergent only.

 

[pturo]

What thoughful responses! I think my concern is more related to what Gyrafoam alluded to: Bacteria in the kitchen & other nasty laundry. A bright colored kitchen towel landered in cold? There is somewhere an article that a kitchen towel has more bacteria than a toilet seat, and what with what we butcher, slice and prepare, then dry our hands on the kitchen towel, leave it overnight. Also, hand towels in a guest bath, especially during flu season and all of the ecoli outbreaks now happening. Seems hand towels and kitchen towels should be changed constantly, but if they are bright colors, will a coldwater wash kill the germs? Does any detergent make a differnce? Someone in the group did a bacteria test,or republished one on cold water, vs warm and I belive tub fullness?

 

[sudsmaster]

Detergent tends to be alkaline, and that along with surfactants tend to kill a lot of germs. Certainly most if not all viruses would be eliminated that way. Bacteria are a bit tougher, and can produce spores that are very resistant. But often the difference between immunity and infection is the number of bacteria consumed/inhaled/injected. A small number may be defeated by the body's first and second line of defenses. But large numbers for which no immunity has been established, these may cause serious problems if the bacteria is pathogenic to begin with. Most of them are not. But you know, like they say, it only takes a few bad bacteria to spoil the petri dish!

Chlorine bleach also is far more effective at warm to hot temperatures than in cold water. In fact it's so effective in hot water that it can damage fabric. Hence the practice in many modern automatics of adding it only during a cold water first rinse fill.

Ozone is probably one of the best ways to kill bacteria in cold water. It's already in use in commercial/industrial laundries. I suppose eventually it will be available in a residential washer, once the concerns about the health affects of ozone are resolved.

 

[pturo]

Wow, sudmaster! Great reply. How in hell do we get ozone into the laundry, the old bulbs? I very much feel that if we can get a detergent to clean really well in cold water, and something added to kill bacteria and other germs/viruses per our little washloads,then we would not have to burn as much coal, nuclear energy and oil to produce hot water to do the same thing, and chlorine is not the best for septic and watershed issues. How do the commercial laundries add ozone? Seems to me point of demand would be better than creating it en masse in a coal burning electicity plant. Curious and unscientific minds want to know.

 

[sudsmaster]

Pturo,

For a time, Costco was selling a home ozonated water generator. It produced about a quart at a time, and the literature that came with it said that the ozonated water would be more effective at killing germs than bleach, esp on hard surfaces. Since this product is on the market, I figure it's just a matter of time before ozonated water generators are added to residential clothes washers, at least some.

The ozone is generated electrically in the product. I believe the same basic process is used in commercial laundries. There was an article about it in Laundry Today a while back. For some reason they talked about treating the wash or rinse water as it leaves the washer. I guess that's so they can re-use it, or something. But they also discussed the value of ozone in bleaching fabrics.

All bleaching is basically an oxidizing process. Chlorine bleach oxidizes fabrics by producing free oxygen in solution. Oxygen "color safe" bleaches do the same thing, just much milder. So I suppose ozonated water also has bleaching potential.

My worry about cold water washing, however, is that chemical (detergent/bleach) and mechanical (tumbling or agitation) energy may not be enough to remove all soil from fabrics. It's quite possible for a filthy rag to be sterile, but still dirty. Just put a soiled dish rag into an autoclave. It will stink and be stained, but it will also be sterile. I'd rather have a very clean fabric with a few harmless bacteria hitching a ride.

 

[pturo]

Thanks. I do think there are times we need hot water and stronger chemicals to do certain things, and as Americans we should have the choice. But we should also have the choice for the greener solution as well available to us, and not at a prohibitive extra cost. For example, our government should be subsidizing the cost difference in a rebate check of a high efficency furnace compared to a regular lower efficency replacement one if we have a President that thinks we are addicted to oil. Currently there is a convoluted state and federal tax credit that no one can see the benfit up front for being green and spending green. It would make the low efficency furnaces go away, but give the consumer a choice, always. The feds have gotten involved in how much water our toilets use to flush an(act of congress) down the john, why not oil/gasoline/natural gas saving rebates for choosing green over regular? I think that most laundry can be done in cold water with the latest detergents. Jeans, Navy blue sweats, really most colored loads,which are 80% of my home's loads. But there is the human reality of bacteria soiled colored laundry mentioned above and I dont think people sort it that way. So, I was looking for a detergent that would do it all-work in all temperatures and kill bacteria and viruses,so I wrote to Proctor and Gamble asking why they claim that Dawn is antibacterial and why cant Tide for Cold water be antibacterial, or any landry detergent be deemed antibacterial. I will post thier response. Phil

 

[sudsmaster]

Dawn, like Dial and even Colgate toothpaste now, contain triclosan, which is an effective antibiotic against many types of bacteria. However I don't know how effective it would be in the laundry. I have found that using Dial soap in the shower makes my skin break out in inconvenient places, so I've stopped using that as a bath bar. For hands it's ok, and the Colgate toothpaste seems to work great at keeping plaque to a minimum.

There have been some concerns about the increasing use of triclosan causing antibiotic resistance, but so far studies have shown that this has not occured. While it seems to be ok in a toohpaste, it should not be injested.

 

[sudsman]

Washers with ozone chambrers

Have been made for several years now Click on DynOzone
There are several mgfs. now

http://www.edrodynawash.com

 

[pturo]

Seems to me that if a few squirts of Dawn antibacterial in maybe 5 gallons of water that the left side of the sink holds can claimed to have an antibiotic effect on dishes washed in them, then 20 gallons of wash water would be equivalent to perhaps 5 ounces of antibacterial additive. It is perhaps a marketing tool for selling liquid dish detergent, I dont know if anyone has ever challanged the dish bacteria level in a dawn vs a non dawn hand wash dish load. Besides, most people rinse in hot water by hand. One would have to perform a cold water test to see if the antibacterial claim is true for dishes, then move on to the washing machine, methinks