Tide rash

[launderess]

Tide then wasn't the vast chemical cocktail it is today. At most nothing more than one simple petrol sourced surfactant, washing soda and or phosphates, perhaps some OBAs and scent, finally a few other minor things like washer protection agents. In short nothing that is going to cause great harm to one's skin.

Considering how much if not all laundry was done in hot or warm water, and usually beaten to death by hand or machine, much of the muck and dirt would have been suspended in the wash water. While not rinsing probably lead to dull and dingy laundry, it also probably wasn't an established part of many housewives wash day. I mean after all these were women trained to rinse their laundry several times from the days of using soap.

Only benefit one can see from not rinsing, is to save water, especially those living where water was either in short supply and or hard to get at.

 

[sudsmaster]

Um, washing soda is very alkaline and I know from experience that it can burn the skin, so traces on clothing are likely to cause itching in susceptible subjects. STPP is also alkaline but more moderate. As an experiment I added some to my bath water and it wasn't unpleasant at all. But it was a lot less concentrated than what one would add to a washing machine.

Enyzmes could be a problem with today's detergents. They are designed to chew away at proteins and fats - basically what skin is made of.

 

[spoodles]

Enzymes in laundry detergent are used in tiny amounts and there is no medical or scientific proof whatsoever that they cause skin problems.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Well, enzymes, as I see it are the most harmless stuff in a detergent. Saliva has more amylase than a dose of washing powder

 

[sudsmaster]

Actually, the reason why enzymes don't cause problems in modern powdered laundry detergents is because they are "pelletized" so that they don't become airborne in dust from the detergent. Mfg's found that unless they did that, the enzymes would cause people breathing problems (asthma attacks probably).

Also, I don't think laundry detergents are supposed to contain amylase in the first place. Amylase is in saliva to start the first step in breaking down starches to sugars. Starches are water soluble so there's no great need to break them down further in the wash. Laundry detergents do contain proteases (to break down proteins) and lipases (to break down fats/oils). The detergents designed to fight pilling may also contain cellulase (breaks down the fine cotton fibers that form pills on cotton/poly fabrics).

 

[launderess]

Amylase

Is indeed found in some laundry detergents. Novozeymes (sp?), amoung other chemical suppliers make this enzyme for inclusion in laundry products. My box of Persil "Sensitive" Megaperls lists amylase amoung other enzymes.

Once posted a link that listed all and sundry enzymes available for use in laundry products, and the list is not small.

Enzymes needed to be somehow "covered" after it was discovered workers in laundry product plants were coming down with various allergic reactions (skin, breathing, etc), from handling or breathing the stuff. This gave rise to the stories of persons having skin rashes from coming into contact with laundry washed in "bio" detergents.

While it is possible someone could have allergic reactions to laundry product residue (enzymes), the amount of enzymes used in laundry detergents is rather small, indeed a very small amount of total product at recommended doses.

It is easier to find out what is in European detergents due to labeling laws. As no such requirments are made in the United States, we can only go by vauge class descriptions , or MSDS information. Normally one only sees protease enzymes listed/spelled out as it can cause allergic reactions by inhalation or skin contact, owing to the fact much of the human body is made from protein.

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, I guess when you can't use STPP

You gotta pull out all the weapons in the enzyme lockbox, including amylase.

I suppose it helps for loosening dried library paste from jr's smock.

 

[launderess]

IIRC, the theory goes that many stains are made up of various substances, and to "unlock" them from fabrics requires a complex approach.

Gravy, for instance is usually made up from meat drippings (protein), fats (lipids), and starches. To get at the entire problem, each specific enzyme goes to work on it's portion of the soil/stain, to aid in complete removal.

Consider also with the average wash temperature down to around 120F or 100F, sometimes even 85F, without a complex chemical make-up including enzymes, much modern laundry just isn't going to come clean. We only have to examine vintage laundry manuals for all and sundry various methods were used to deal with food stains that most of us rarely bother worrying about today.

L.

 

[iheartmaytag]

I read years ago, can't remember where; nor can I properly paraphrase the article.
BUT-it said that Tide was one of the first detergents to use enzymes, and was originally made with goat bile. Don't know if this was true, don't think it still is anyway; just know it stuck in my head at the time and apparently is still there.

 

[richm]

It's interesting

For years, all I could use is Regular Tide powder as it was the only thing that doesn't bother me with either the scent and/or cause me to itch. Any other type of Tide does bother me, absolutely no liquid Tide! I have recently found that I can use the new Arm & Hammer Essentials liquid in the green bottle, which is supposedly "green" friendly. The scent doesn't bother me and no itching either.

Rich

 

[launderess]

Bile

From goats, oxen, cows and god only knows what other animals has long been used to remove stains. Indeed it was the the "enzyme" pre-treat product available for ages on both sides of the pond.

Indeed today one can still purchase "Ox-Bile" bases soaps and pre-treatment products in France, Germany and other parts of Europe and the UK.

L.

 

[launderess]

Oh and before anyone gives pains or has their sentiments offended by the use of bile for laundry, there was also urine, human or animal produced for cleaning washing as well.

 

[xraytech]

I have to agree with those on the Sears Ultra Plus detergent.
We have exclusively used the powder for years and it works great and is lightly scented and I have never had any rashes from it and I break out easily.
Even my grandmother who has severe allergies and sensitive skin uses it but she gets the liquid which is not as thrifty as the powder.
It also has the best value we buy when on sale the buckets of powder and it is $20 for a 275 wash bucket, the buckets are great to have on hand too for washing the cars or for scrubbng walls or for transporting water for cemetary flowers and many other uses.

 

[ronhic]

and lets not forget...

....what normal tablet soap was originally made from...

 

[rolls_rapide]

Amylase enzyme

I think that particular enzyme has been superceded by 'Glycosidase'.

During the 1990s, P&G's 'Ariel' powder had four enzymes (Amylase, Cellulase, Lipase and Protease).

P&G's 'Bold' had three : Amylase, Cellulase and Protease.

P&G's 'Daz' had two: Amylase and Protease.

Now, I understand that Ariel has four enzymes: Protease and three forms of Glycosidase. Glycosidase can apparently be modified to work on starchy stains, pectin stains or to tackle those gum-type stains (Xanthan and Guar, as found in salad cream).

Lipase and cellulase seem to have fallen out of favour; I wonder why?

Click on the blue coloured words to get a description.

http://www.scienceinthebox.com/cgi-bin/info-pg/showproduct.pl?lang=en_UK&id=1119-8

 

[launderess]

Cellulase is still used in many US detergents, most heavily by P&G in Tide, Cheer and many other detergents. Normally one can tell which detergent contains cellulase (though it is not always mentioned on the chemical listing), by the inclusion of the "Cotton" trademark on the package.

Cellulase supposedly keeps laundry looking like "new" by munching off small bits of fuzz and pills that develop on cotton clothing. There is one school of thought which says such action is hard on textiles, and some recommend fine linens, bedding and textiles not be washed in such detergents.

Lipase was one of the first enzymes included in laundry detergents and "pre-soaks", after protease. However fats and oils can be dealt with via new and improved surfactants, especially now that the trend on both sides of the pond is towards liquid detergents.

 

[gizmo]

what is the current thinking on enzymes in relation to skin rashes, itches, etc? I have been searching recently for a sensitive skin formula powder with enzymes, can't find any. Most of the "sensitive" versions of popular products like Omo have no enzymes, whereas the regular ("non sensitive") versions have enzymes. I thought I read here a year or two ago that enzymes had been studied and found NOT to be linked to skin irritation.
I have taken on an extra task at work - cleaning out the deep fryer each week - which inevitably ends up with oily blotches on my black cotton shirts. I have not yet found a good combination to shift the marks.

For quite a while I have been using Ecostore front loader powder, which was the best Eco front loader in the Choice test (the only "environmental" product which was any good at all) and scored better than any of the "sensitive" versions of popular brands, though it still scored well under the enzyme-laden full versions of the best performers. The only thing that Ecostore has trouble with is the oil marks. I have tried using enzyme based pre wash sprays, but they did little and stunk out the whole wash load.

MY situation - LG front loader, hot water fill temp limited to 60 degrees C, commonly more like 40 degrees actual temp; can't do profile wash with cold fill as heater is deliberately disconnected; very sensitive skin; black cotton shirts which fade easily but show oily marks very clearly.

Thanks

Chris

 

[launderess]

Last time one did any sort of research (ok, skimming "Google" for articles", physicans and others, including consumer groups have found that enzymes in detergents do not cause skin problems. However that does not rule out the odd person that might have an allergic reaction. Such reactions could also be from other chemicals in the detergent such as scent, or residue from incomplete rinsing.

If enzymes in detergents caused so much skin problems, you would see much higher numbers of said problems, at least in Western Europe and the United States, where by and large most laundry products contain advanced enzyme cocktails. Indeed outside of the UK, "non-bio" detergents for the most part are limited to certian MOL and BOL brands. It is worth noting that even some "Green" detergents add enzymes, which somewhat acknowledges that cleaning modern laundry without can be difficult, especially at today's lower wash temperatures.

As for grease/oil stains:

Problem with these stains is often even after the stain is gone, an oily ring will remain on the fabric, especially darker colours.

One might wish to try sponging with a solvent based spot remover or dry cleaning fluid, then working in either a good liquid detergent or laundry pre-treater, allowing it to sit, then rinse, then wash as normal. If going this route, you want to make sure anything remotely flammable is washed out before putting item in the washing machine.

Have a few cartons of a stain/spot pre-treater by Ecolab,which in addition to the normal enzyme cocktail, has some solvents as well for dealing with oils. Works pretty well, just is rather nasty stuff and must be kept off bare skin.

L.

 

[gizmo]

Thanks Launderess.

I have just tried "Vanish Preen Ultra degreaser" pre-wash spray, (80% liquid hydrocarbons) followed by "Radiant specialty Black Wash" which is a liquid detergent made for black clothes. I had expected the liquid to be black, but it is clear. Neither product claims to be for sensitive skin, and the completed washing has an unpleasant perfume to it. It is drying on racks upstairs as it is raining today, it has stunk out upstairs. The marks only show up when the washing is dry, so we will see if they have gone, and if the washed fabric eats my skin...

What a delicate little flower I am.

Chris.

 

[ronhic]

I have....

....recently stopped using the majority of prewash sprays such as preen on my collars and cuffs...

Instead, I have gone back to using a bar of soap....wet the oil stained area well, rub with sunlight soap (or even bath soap), rub gently and wash...

Doing this has finally moved the 'oily skin' mark where my work shirt collar 'wing' hits my shirt when I wear a tie...

Try it on a part of the shirt you don't see though first...just incase it removes the colour...

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Chris,

I us that verson of Preen if Drive doesnt shift it in a normal wash, I'll spray with that and re-wash with Drive.

Drive is terrible for the environment according to Choice, but it is one of the best performers, it'll usually strip most oil stains out of most loads. Almost no smell, just a faint hint of lemons/chemicals. It seems to rinse out very cleanly, with no suds by the third rinse.

Our supermarket has been running out the 2kg boxes for $5.75 a pop. The New x2 concentrate is $9.99 down from the $13.00 the 2kg box costs.

 

[ronhic]

Hello Nathan..

I just bought 2x1kg boxes of 'old' Surfmatic AND a 2kg box of old 'drivematic' for $8.50 in Woolies on Wednesday night...

Drive is wonderful stuff, but it can play havoc with colours (or it used to...loaded with bleach). I tend to use it pretty much at 1/2-2/3 dose and am always happy with the results...

...and the scent hasn't changed drastically in over 20yrs

My desire to not use preen is partly cost and was partly trying something 'old fashioned'. Preen at $4.50ish a can is bloody expensive...so I switched to Aldi's trigger pack version and it is fine especially at $1.75...

....but I am quite literally stunned at the good old bar of soap and water...mine and everyone elses gran was right.

 

[brisnat81]

Hey Ron,

I've had no issues with any colours. I've tried Omomatic Colour, Omo S&M Colour and Radiant Colour and none of them seem to clean as well.

The Previous 2kg formulation of Drive hasnt affected anything I've got over 3 years of use. I usually use 3/4 of a scoop for a full load.

I love that box of Omo Matic. Housewives must've bought a box a week in those 1 cup dosage days.

 

[ronhic]

I love the old....

....OMOmatic

I still have 5 boxes of it....every now and then I give one a squeeze so I can have a whiff...how sad is that!

I know that once I open it, I will use it until it every wash until it is gone...so I really do hold off...

 

[jetcone]

As a kid in the 60's

I got Tide rash so we never used it again, switched to Cheer.

So today I was worried when I started using Tide HE in the Duo's but so far after several months nothing and when I researched the formulation I was surprised that I found the HE powder uses a completely different surfactant than the regular Tide Plus products.