Robert is feeling his vim and vigor.
Tide Tiles
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Robert, what size was that box, it doesn’t look big enough to have held 8lbs of tablets.
The trend to not dosing detergent by the consumer has been going on FOR DECADES.
I think AEG had an automatic softener dosing in the 80s, Mieles first LiquidWash was a Hydromatic machine, so same time frame.
All for good reason. Most consumers just dose something with no knowledge behind that.
Both into the way to much region, and the "teaspoon is enough" range (that I honestly despise way more).
The detergent manufacturer reaction was tabs and pods.
Pressed powder detergent pods have vanished a few years ago over here when the now common liquid pods became main stream.
Those (aswell as detergent sheets) suffer from the same 2 issues.
First of, you can't really do any bleaching additives with these. At least haven't seen any with any. Probably partly a laundry care issue with that since that concentrated those additives could lead to staining on colored items if a pod doesn't get properly dissolved.
Second you can only pack so much into a pod (like 40g, 2 table spoons worth). You CAN fit a lot of cleaning into that but only so much.
This skirts around those 2 issues probably.
If it's just powder that can't escape the "pod" (or tile or whatever) without dissolving first, you can add bleaching agents.
And then it's a larger format, so you can add more mass of cleaning agents.
Still not convinced, but I see why it's a thing.
I don't think anybody who knows a bit about laundry and can take 30sec per load to properly judge dosing should bother.
I think AEG had an automatic softener dosing in the 80s, Mieles first LiquidWash was a Hydromatic machine, so same time frame.
All for good reason. Most consumers just dose something with no knowledge behind that.
Both into the way to much region, and the "teaspoon is enough" range (that I honestly despise way more).
The detergent manufacturer reaction was tabs and pods.
Pressed powder detergent pods have vanished a few years ago over here when the now common liquid pods became main stream.
Those (aswell as detergent sheets) suffer from the same 2 issues.
First of, you can't really do any bleaching additives with these. At least haven't seen any with any. Probably partly a laundry care issue with that since that concentrated those additives could lead to staining on colored items if a pod doesn't get properly dissolved.
Second you can only pack so much into a pod (like 40g, 2 table spoons worth). You CAN fit a lot of cleaning into that but only so much.
This skirts around those 2 issues probably.
If it's just powder that can't escape the "pod" (or tile or whatever) without dissolving first, you can add bleaching agents.
And then it's a larger format, so you can add more mass of cleaning agents.
Still not convinced, but I see why it's a thing.
I don't think anybody who knows a bit about laundry and can take 30sec per load to properly judge dosing should bother.
Does anyone know why the sizes (going back to this era) were so odd---Dash and All were in 9 pound 13 ounce boxes (All also had a 20 pound size....was always my job to figure out which was a better buy for my mom). Giant size--3 lb 1 oz.....king size 5 lb 4 oz....ramily was like 10 pounds 4 ozs or some-such. Box sizing seemed to be uniform (for planogramming, I presume).
Robert, what size was that box, it doesn’t look big enough to have held 8lbs of tablets.
I'm not exactly sure Nathan as I borrowed the box to scan, but I suspect it's almost as tall as the 9lb box of Dash (see sidebar link on the boxes page). The tablets were smaller than Salvo but tightly packed in.
I'm not exactly sure Nathan as I borrowed the box to scan, but I suspect it's almost as tall as the 9lb box of Dash (see sidebar link on the boxes page). The tablets were smaller than Salvo but tightly packed in.
Refill stations at retailers for cleaning products and such, possibly some types of food items.
Dash was supposed to be "concentrated" so one could use less. Perhaps that influenced packaging sizes.
Have a huge box of Dash in my stash, will fish it out later this week to see what there is.
Generally larger packaged of powdered detergents often meant product contained more fillers. When everyone went to "ultra" format for powders boxes shrank. MOL and bottom shelf detergents were (and still are) famous for coming in larger packages, but product contains lots of fillers. Consumer thinks they are getting a bargain, but if they did the sums it likely wasn't such a great deal.
Then there is "this package is sold by weight not by volume" trick. Put one pound of product into a box that looks as if it holds more. Bigger box grabs person's eyes, but many don't do the sums. IIRC years ago Consumer Reports called out all sorts of things from breakfast cereal to laundry powder detergents where contents were often far less than packaging would lead one to believe. Yes, labeling on packet accurately reflected actual amount, but still.
Have a huge box of Dash in my stash, will fish it out later this week to see what there is.
Generally larger packaged of powdered detergents often meant product contained more fillers. When everyone went to "ultra" format for powders boxes shrank. MOL and bottom shelf detergents were (and still are) famous for coming in larger packages, but product contains lots of fillers. Consumer thinks they are getting a bargain, but if they did the sums it likely wasn't such a great deal.
Then there is "this package is sold by weight not by volume" trick. Put one pound of product into a box that looks as if it holds more. Bigger box grabs person's eyes, but many don't do the sums. IIRC years ago Consumer Reports called out all sorts of things from breakfast cereal to laundry powder detergents where contents were often far less than packaging would lead one to believe. Yes, labeling on packet accurately reflected actual amount, but still.
One supposes you have to give P&G along with rest points for trying.
Detergent makers keep rolling out all sorts of easy dosing products. Nothing lasts very long and are withdrawn from market. Only to return a decade or so later and everything old is new again.
Tablets, liquid dosing devices, "leaf" sheets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vo9C9gIOR4
Detergent makers keep rolling out all sorts of easy dosing products. Nothing lasts very long and are withdrawn from market. Only to return a decade or so later and everything old is new again.
Tablets, liquid dosing devices, "leaf" sheets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vo9C9gIOR4
The EC30 detergent “tiles” arrived! Each of two boxes contains 15 tiles (or swatches, as EC30 calls them) made by P&G, so I assume they’ll be similar to the upcoming Tide version. The box is about 5-1/4 inches across and 3-1/4 inches tall. The tiles themselves are 3” x 3”. File under: Spendy. The tiles are $1 apiece without factoring the cost of shipping.
I’ll call on our resident translator, Launderess, to decipher photo #4 for those of us who are chemistry-challenged.
Having seen them up close & personal, the term tiles makes more sense. They resemble a tile you might see on a bathroom or kitchen wall, kinda sorta. They aren’t just a thin sheet of whatever the heck they’re made of.
Will try one out on a big load of kitchen and bath whites tomorrow morning to see how well they clean.
I’ll call on our resident translator, Launderess, to decipher photo #4 for those of us who are chemistry-challenged.
Having seen them up close & personal, the term tiles makes more sense. They resemble a tile you might see on a bathroom or kitchen wall, kinda sorta. They aren’t just a thin sheet of whatever the heck they’re made of.
Will try one out on a big load of kitchen and bath whites tomorrow morning to see how well they clean.
Reply number 48
Thanks for sharing Eugene, they are a little pricey for my taste, but I’ll have to try them out because I’m sure we’ll have questions about them from our customers.
Thanks for posting the ingredients. One would have to guess with all those ingredients they’ll probably work pretty well, lol
Waiting for what laundress has to say about them.
John
Thanks for sharing Eugene, they are a little pricey for my taste, but I’ll have to try them out because I’m sure we’ll have questions about them from our customers.
Thanks for posting the ingredients. One would have to guess with all those ingredients they’ll probably work pretty well, lol
Waiting for what laundress has to say about them.
John
Here is the full list with explanations of what each ingredient does. Interestingly, it relies on surfactants to brighten.
ec30clean.com
EC30 | Laundry Detergent Ingredients | ec30clean.com
EC30 Laundry Detergent Ingredients
ec30clean.com
From the FAQs
"What is PVA? Why do you have it in your products?
PVA stands for PolyVinyl Alcohol. PVA is used in EC30 to create the solid swatch form. PVA dissolves completely and is biologically degradable" and so on...
Like I said before and to sum it up again the only environmental advantage over pods is no water to be transported and a cardboard packaging instead of plastic.
Don`t see how this could possibly be a replacement for pods in regards of a possible PVA ban.
I also don`t get the whole point about CO2 reduction on transportation of waterless detergents and use of carton instead of plastic for packaging.
I mean shouldn`t we better give up things like bottled water and Coca Cola first if we really cared about the planet?
"What is PVA? Why do you have it in your products?
PVA stands for PolyVinyl Alcohol. PVA is used in EC30 to create the solid swatch form. PVA dissolves completely and is biologically degradable" and so on...
Like I said before and to sum it up again the only environmental advantage over pods is no water to be transported and a cardboard packaging instead of plastic.
Don`t see how this could possibly be a replacement for pods in regards of a possible PVA ban.
I also don`t get the whole point about CO2 reduction on transportation of waterless detergents and use of carton instead of plastic for packaging.
I mean shouldn`t we better give up things like bottled water and Coca Cola first if we really cared about the planet?
That last thought is a dangerous road to go down, Stefan.
Sure that other thing is an issue to, but that doesn't mean the first thing is any less of an issue.
Not to make it too political, but it's the same in the bigger climate change debate.
"Why should I reduce my emissions if *insert big industry or country* won't first?"
Well, because people and their behaviours STILL cause emissions REGARDLESS. If everybody thinks that way, nobody will ever do anything.
I don't think the PVA ban will do much.
All sources I found basically agree that even if actual bio degradation takes more or less time, most somewhat up to date sewage treatment should capture most PVA in the process.
PVA is on the edge of what one could consider microplastics.
But that's where the whole "buzz word" part or microplastics starts again. Some consider PVA dissolved in walter a microplastic since it is still what is widely considered a plastic, others don't since it's basically dissolved. You wouldn't consider water with salt in it "contaminated with microparticles of salt".
I do still think this could have a place alongside other single dose size detergent systems.
Possible bleaching power, etc.
Just not a a dollar a load...
Sure that other thing is an issue to, but that doesn't mean the first thing is any less of an issue.
Not to make it too political, but it's the same in the bigger climate change debate.
"Why should I reduce my emissions if *insert big industry or country* won't first?"
Well, because people and their behaviours STILL cause emissions REGARDLESS. If everybody thinks that way, nobody will ever do anything.
I don't think the PVA ban will do much.
All sources I found basically agree that even if actual bio degradation takes more or less time, most somewhat up to date sewage treatment should capture most PVA in the process.
PVA is on the edge of what one could consider microplastics.
But that's where the whole "buzz word" part or microplastics starts again. Some consider PVA dissolved in walter a microplastic since it is still what is widely considered a plastic, others don't since it's basically dissolved. You wouldn't consider water with salt in it "contaminated with microparticles of salt".
I do still think this could have a place alongside other single dose size detergent systems.
Possible bleaching power, etc.
Just not a a dollar a load...
Henrik you have a very valid point in saying if everybody thinks this way nobody will ever do anything.
But keep in mind that for most of the older generation like myself it`s much harder to suddenly change their habits than for someone younger like you who doesn`t have yet a history of doing things a certain way for decades long , so don`t be too hard on us.
For example this EC30 site also sells body wash swatches or tiles.
So as a responsible (and thrifty) person I already use a water saving shower head but I still use lots of liters of water and lots of kWh`s of gas. There`s nothing more I could do about it except for maybe not taking showers at all.
But now some clever P&G marketing geniuses want to make me feel bad about a tiny plastic bottle of body wash (which by the way always goes into recycling trash in my home) and the transportation emissions for a 300 grams water containing product that lasts me almost a month. And this EC30 s**t also contains a water soluble plastic (not microplastics but maybe even considered worse in a few years LOL) which my old fashioned body wash doesn`t.
Yeah sometimes it`s the little things that count but sometimes whatever comes with the so called solution is in no proportion to the problem. That`s what I call greenwashing and I refuse to be a part of this.
But keep in mind that for most of the older generation like myself it`s much harder to suddenly change their habits than for someone younger like you who doesn`t have yet a history of doing things a certain way for decades long , so don`t be too hard on us.
For example this EC30 site also sells body wash swatches or tiles.
So as a responsible (and thrifty) person I already use a water saving shower head but I still use lots of liters of water and lots of kWh`s of gas. There`s nothing more I could do about it except for maybe not taking showers at all.
But now some clever P&G marketing geniuses want to make me feel bad about a tiny plastic bottle of body wash (which by the way always goes into recycling trash in my home) and the transportation emissions for a 300 grams water containing product that lasts me almost a month. And this EC30 s**t also contains a water soluble plastic (not microplastics but maybe even considered worse in a few years LOL) which my old fashioned body wash doesn`t.
Yeah sometimes it`s the little things that count but sometimes whatever comes with the so called solution is in no proportion to the problem. That`s what I call greenwashing and I refuse to be a part of this.
But who am I kidding.
As soon as there will be some Ariel Tiles launched in Germany I`ll probably be the first one to try them out for myself.
But that`s just because I cannot refuse a new detergent not because I like the whole concept.
As soon as there will be some Ariel Tiles launched in Germany I`ll probably be the first one to try them out for myself.
But that`s just because I cannot refuse a new detergent not because I like the whole concept.
Reply #51 - Environmental advantage
"the only environmental advantage over pods is no water to be transported and a cardboard packaging instead of plastic"
Powder had exactly the same environmental advantage, and it came much before liquids and pods
"the only environmental advantage over pods is no water to be transported and a cardboard packaging instead of plastic"
Powder had exactly the same environmental advantage, and it came much before liquids and pods
PVA
There's a US study here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8199957/ that I think might be the one mentioned in the seaweed pods I posted a link to, it claims:
"Literature review data, when incorporated into our model, resulted in ~61% of PVA ending up in the environment via the sludge route and ~15.7% via the aqueous phase. PVA presence in the environment, regardless of its matrix, is a threat to the ecosystem due to the potential mobilization of heavy metals and other hydrophilic contaminants."
Here in the UK, ever since the water boards were privatised, reducing raw sewage discharges along with fixing leaks just seem to be used as excuses for putting up prices to pay out ever bigger bonuses to the board and in shareholder dividends and very little gets done about it.
There's a US study here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8199957/ that I think might be the one mentioned in the seaweed pods I posted a link to, it claims:
"Literature review data, when incorporated into our model, resulted in ~61% of PVA ending up in the environment via the sludge route and ~15.7% via the aqueous phase. PVA presence in the environment, regardless of its matrix, is a threat to the ecosystem due to the potential mobilization of heavy metals and other hydrophilic contaminants."
Here in the UK, ever since the water boards were privatised, reducing raw sewage discharges along with fixing leaks just seem to be used as excuses for putting up prices to pay out ever bigger bonuses to the board and in shareholder dividends and very little gets done about it.
I put the EC30 swatches/tiles to the test this morning on a medium-sized load of whites. I stained a dish towel last night, which you can see in photo 1. The stains dried on overnight.
The Test:
> Used one EC30 detergent tile. Added it to the tub of my SQ front-loader, then added the clothes, which filled the tub just shy of two-thirds full. The machine has a 3.5 cu. ft. drum.
> Selected the Normal Cycle, warm wash, MAX soil setting (a 74-minute cycle with a 50-minute wash tumble followed by two rinses and a 1200 rpm final spin.
The suds was well-controlled, but there was still a bit of weak suds bubbles left in the final rinse. Considering my uber-soft water, that’s generally par for the course, especially considering that P&G do love their detergents to be very sudsy.
The rest of the medium-sized load consisted of kitchen, bath, and personal whites. My bath hand towels always have some blood spots on them, as I apparently learned to shave from Sweeney Todd. Toothpaste and blue shaving cream are also common stains on hand towels.
I was impressed with the results. All blood, shaving cream and toothpaste stains were fully removed. The test towel—a kitchen dish towel—revealed a wide range of results. The laundered, but not dried, towel is photo #2.
The detergent tiles did a fantastic job on the tough coffee stain, achieved by dampening that corner of the towel and scrubbing the Keurig’s drip tray; ketchup stain barely visible; mustard stain is still visible, but lightened substantially; the Worcestershire stain is vanquished; the Rao’s Marinara sauce stain is still plainly visible; the hickory barbecue sauce stain is gone; the Frank’s hot sauce stain faired worst of the lot. It’s almost the same color as it was before being laundered.
Photo 1: The stained and labeled towel, which was allowed to dry overnight.
Photo 2: The same towel after laundering, still damp.
I’ll wash a load of mixed colors on Tuesday and we’ll see how it does with those.
Overall, I thought it did a commendable job. I’ll use it on loads that aren’t heavily stained.
The Test:
> Used one EC30 detergent tile. Added it to the tub of my SQ front-loader, then added the clothes, which filled the tub just shy of two-thirds full. The machine has a 3.5 cu. ft. drum.
> Selected the Normal Cycle, warm wash, MAX soil setting (a 74-minute cycle with a 50-minute wash tumble followed by two rinses and a 1200 rpm final spin.
The suds was well-controlled, but there was still a bit of weak suds bubbles left in the final rinse. Considering my uber-soft water, that’s generally par for the course, especially considering that P&G do love their detergents to be very sudsy.
The rest of the medium-sized load consisted of kitchen, bath, and personal whites. My bath hand towels always have some blood spots on them, as I apparently learned to shave from Sweeney Todd. Toothpaste and blue shaving cream are also common stains on hand towels.
I was impressed with the results. All blood, shaving cream and toothpaste stains were fully removed. The test towel—a kitchen dish towel—revealed a wide range of results. The laundered, but not dried, towel is photo #2.
The detergent tiles did a fantastic job on the tough coffee stain, achieved by dampening that corner of the towel and scrubbing the Keurig’s drip tray; ketchup stain barely visible; mustard stain is still visible, but lightened substantially; the Worcestershire stain is vanquished; the Rao’s Marinara sauce stain is still plainly visible; the hickory barbecue sauce stain is gone; the Frank’s hot sauce stain faired worst of the lot. It’s almost the same color as it was before being laundered.
Photo 1: The stained and labeled towel, which was allowed to dry overnight.
Photo 2: The same towel after laundering, still damp.
I’ll wash a load of mixed colors on Tuesday and we’ll see how it does with those.
Overall, I thought it did a commendable job. I’ll use it on loads that aren’t heavily stained.
Wow
I’m impressed. Historically, my worst stains are spaghetti sauce (especially Raos) and Hot sauce. Coffee and Mustard generally are difficult stains too. I always need Oxy to remove all of these. Tomato stain likely would have been better with pectate lyase. Though, the SQs “warm temp” is likely 70-75°F. A hot setting would be more interesting to see, but this depicts average household washes.
I’m impressed. Historically, my worst stains are spaghetti sauce (especially Raos) and Hot sauce. Coffee and Mustard generally are difficult stains too. I always need Oxy to remove all of these. Tomato stain likely would have been better with pectate lyase. Though, the SQs “warm temp” is likely 70-75°F. A hot setting would be more interesting to see, but this depicts average household washes.
