Love your test Eugene, the big question is would the more expensive versions of liquid Tide have removed all those stains completely?
Tide Tiles
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Robert- I happen to have a jug of top-rated liquid Tide Ultra Stain Release, so will replicate the test—same stains, same cycle (Normal cycle, warm water, max soil setting providing a 50 minute wash tumble)—and compare the results. My gut tells me the Tide Ultra Stain Release will remove more of the Rao’s marinara and the hot sauce. I’ll do that test in a couple of days, by which time I’ll have accumulated a similarly-sized load of whites.[this post was last edited: 3/19/2024-20:33]
launderess
Well-known member
Red and some other sauces such as marinara, hot sauce, curry, etc... are famously difficult to remove with just washing alone.
Issue is many sauces are made up of several different bits each requiring different method or chemical to remove totally.
Red sauce will have fats and oils, colouring from tomatoes and other things used, protein (from meats).
This and more explains why on both sides of pond various pre-wash stain treatments are about.
In my wash day arsnel have several pre-wash mark removers (Ecolab, Zout, Shout, Fels Naptha soap (vintage), hydrogen peroxide. Each serve a purpose and find often give better and more certain results than just bunging everything into wash and hoping for best.
Issue is many sauces are made up of several different bits each requiring different method or chemical to remove totally.
Red sauce will have fats and oils, colouring from tomatoes and other things used, protein (from meats).
This and more explains why on both sides of pond various pre-wash stain treatments are about.
In my wash day arsnel have several pre-wash mark removers (Ecolab, Zout, Shout, Fels Naptha soap (vintage), hydrogen peroxide. Each serve a purpose and find often give better and more certain results than just bunging everything into wash and hoping for best.
About the 2nd video
Not mentioned in the video is that they are using a liquid color detergent in the the wash, along with the stain remover. Instead of stain remover, they also added a "good" powered detergent (of the universal type) for a few test cycles and it did better than any of the specialized products on the 38 stains they tested. One thing they mentioned: the universal detergent was harsh on certain colors.
Not mentioned in the video is that they are using a liquid color detergent in the the wash, along with the stain remover. Instead of stain remover, they also added a "good" powered detergent (of the universal type) for a few test cycles and it did better than any of the specialized products on the 38 stains they tested. One thing they mentioned: the universal detergent was harsh on certain colors.
launderess
Well-known member
Well there is that!
IIRC German consumer testing long ago rated powdered detergents with bleaching components far better at overall stain removal than those without. This also applies to liquid laundry detergents that by nature cannot contain bleaching agents, well not if they have enzymes anyway.
Have huge stash of various oxygen bleaches (activated) so am good that way.
Besides sanitation and hygiene oxygen bleach (better if activated sort) are necessary for often removing all traces of marks.
In some instances advanced enzyme laundry detergents or pre-wash treatments can get job done, but often a shadow remains.
IIRC German consumer testing long ago rated powdered detergents with bleaching components far better at overall stain removal than those without. This also applies to liquid laundry detergents that by nature cannot contain bleaching agents, well not if they have enzymes anyway.
Have huge stash of various oxygen bleaches (activated) so am good that way.
Besides sanitation and hygiene oxygen bleach (better if activated sort) are necessary for often removing all traces of marks.
In some instances advanced enzyme laundry detergents or pre-wash treatments can get job done, but often a shadow remains.
launderess
Well-known member
Think we're going to see more alternative formats for laundry detergents coming down the pike.
Liquid is fine one supposes, but one is paying quite a lot for what could be mostly water. That and with shipping costs becoming more and more dear there is pressure to reduce size of packaging to decrease bulk. With liquid products you have issues with leaks, caps coming off, spillage, etc...
With more and more persons shopping online ways have to be found to get liquid laundry products (among others) delivered without damage/leaks/spills.
Perhaps most common complaint on Amazon and other sites is people having ordered say Persil or Tide liquid detergent, package arrives with contents leaked or spilled all over. Some sellers package liquid products within plastic liners. That's great for containing leak or spill, but doesn't do much for fact product one paid for still is damaged.
Everyone thought pods were going to be answer to woes with using liquid or gel format. To some extent they are, but come with their own issues.
Liquid is fine one supposes, but one is paying quite a lot for what could be mostly water. That and with shipping costs becoming more and more dear there is pressure to reduce size of packaging to decrease bulk. With liquid products you have issues with leaks, caps coming off, spillage, etc...
With more and more persons shopping online ways have to be found to get liquid laundry products (among others) delivered without damage/leaks/spills.
Perhaps most common complaint on Amazon and other sites is people having ordered say Persil or Tide liquid detergent, package arrives with contents leaked or spilled all over. Some sellers package liquid products within plastic liners. That's great for containing leak or spill, but doesn't do much for fact product one paid for still is damaged.
Everyone thought pods were going to be answer to woes with using liquid or gel format. To some extent they are, but come with their own issues.
Well pods certainly weren't the solution to Amazon handling problems. Finish dishwasher pods were on offer on Amazon.co.uk a while back (4 x 100 @ £40), and there were lots of complaints with pictures of bags of mush where the pods had burst and oozed out into the outer bag and some, where that had bust as well. In the end I was glad I hesitated, because a local supermarket had an offer about 2 weeks later that worked out at less than 8p per pod.
With ever increasing sales of autodose machines here in the UK at least, it may not be long before our supermarkets only stock liquid detergents. Hopefully we don't end up with chipped detergent refill cartridges!
With ever increasing sales of autodose machines here in the UK at least, it may not be long before our supermarkets only stock liquid detergents. Hopefully we don't end up with chipped detergent refill cartridges!
thewoolitewoman
Member
Greetings. I'd been following this thread for a little while and thought I'd chime in.
Green-washing is a concept that describes the psychological marketing tactic of portraying a product as Eco-friendly or sustainable through the use of unsubstantiated claims and/or intentionally misleading verbiage. I am fairly certain that these Tide Tiles in question are nothing more than a green-washed gimmick. Let me explain:
I follow a popular "laundry expert" and dry-cleaner on social media who has been advertising these tiles for some time now. Each post of theirs contains a paid-partnership disclaimer (important to note). Curious, I began researching these tiles and have discovered absolutely zero (0) claims by Tide that the actual tiles themselves are free of plastic. Tide's official "evo" webpage makes it blatantly clear that this product is free of plastic insofar as the packaging goes.
I quote: "100% concentrated. 0% plastic bottle."
These tiles are nothing more than compressed squares of fibrous detergent that I can only theorize cost more money and energy to create than the usual process of mixing powdered detergent builders. I imagine these detergent "fibers" are made of regular powders spun into threads like cotton candy, formed into matted layers, sandwiched together between layers of -- you guessed it -- PVA plastic, and hydraulically pressed into cute tiles.
I have yet to actually find an ingredients list, but an unlabelled expanded diagram shared by Tide would suggest that each of its six layers are different from each other. This leads me to believe that one layer may be entirely plastic adhesive (as one "layer" of a Tide Pod is plastic in the form of the casing) or that each layer is adhered to the other through a thin layer of adhesive between one another. My guess is that these adhesives will not be disclosed because "trade secrets" or "no effect on detergent functionality," etc.
That's my two cents on the tiles themselves. There's also the problem of quantity per package. There come, like, 20-something tiles per box. Tide suggests using one (1) tile per small-to-medium load and two (2) tiles for larger loads. The resulting yield is...not a lot, to say the least. But, hey -- at least their colorful box is recyclable and free of plastic! Feel free to spend more money on less washes and send more paper to the recycling bin (if it even makes it there in the first place).
There's something to be said about the push to use cold water indiscriminately with this (and other) product(s). Like all other green-washed products on the market, this one also "dissolves cleanly in cold water," because why not? That's an entirely different conversation I am too weak to have at this point. I digress.
Let's overlook the financial costs involved in the production of these tiles, their packaging, and the transportation of product from factory to store. While we're at it, let's also overlook the environmental impact involved in the production of these tiles, their packaging, and the transportation of these pretty little boxes, too. Since we're on a roll, let's also pretend the consumer will /not/ be responsible to offset increased costs by having to purchase more packs more frequently for more money.
Doesn't quite compute if you ask me. But what do I know...
https://tide.com/en-us/our-commitment/tide-evo
Green-washing is a concept that describes the psychological marketing tactic of portraying a product as Eco-friendly or sustainable through the use of unsubstantiated claims and/or intentionally misleading verbiage. I am fairly certain that these Tide Tiles in question are nothing more than a green-washed gimmick. Let me explain:
I follow a popular "laundry expert" and dry-cleaner on social media who has been advertising these tiles for some time now. Each post of theirs contains a paid-partnership disclaimer (important to note). Curious, I began researching these tiles and have discovered absolutely zero (0) claims by Tide that the actual tiles themselves are free of plastic. Tide's official "evo" webpage makes it blatantly clear that this product is free of plastic insofar as the packaging goes.
I quote: "100% concentrated. 0% plastic bottle."
These tiles are nothing more than compressed squares of fibrous detergent that I can only theorize cost more money and energy to create than the usual process of mixing powdered detergent builders. I imagine these detergent "fibers" are made of regular powders spun into threads like cotton candy, formed into matted layers, sandwiched together between layers of -- you guessed it -- PVA plastic, and hydraulically pressed into cute tiles.
I have yet to actually find an ingredients list, but an unlabelled expanded diagram shared by Tide would suggest that each of its six layers are different from each other. This leads me to believe that one layer may be entirely plastic adhesive (as one "layer" of a Tide Pod is plastic in the form of the casing) or that each layer is adhered to the other through a thin layer of adhesive between one another. My guess is that these adhesives will not be disclosed because "trade secrets" or "no effect on detergent functionality," etc.
That's my two cents on the tiles themselves. There's also the problem of quantity per package. There come, like, 20-something tiles per box. Tide suggests using one (1) tile per small-to-medium load and two (2) tiles for larger loads. The resulting yield is...not a lot, to say the least. But, hey -- at least their colorful box is recyclable and free of plastic! Feel free to spend more money on less washes and send more paper to the recycling bin (if it even makes it there in the first place).
There's something to be said about the push to use cold water indiscriminately with this (and other) product(s). Like all other green-washed products on the market, this one also "dissolves cleanly in cold water," because why not? That's an entirely different conversation I am too weak to have at this point. I digress.
Let's overlook the financial costs involved in the production of these tiles, their packaging, and the transportation of product from factory to store. While we're at it, let's also overlook the environmental impact involved in the production of these tiles, their packaging, and the transportation of these pretty little boxes, too. Since we're on a roll, let's also pretend the consumer will /not/ be responsible to offset increased costs by having to purchase more packs more frequently for more money.
Doesn't quite compute if you ask me. But what do I know...
https://tide.com/en-us/our-commitment/tide-evo
thewoolitewoman
Member
I was thinking these would have been compressed pucks of their powder (hence, tiles) but seems they are little more than a different tide pod.
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Agreed, Egress. I was also hoping that they were just compressed powder but I suppose a cotton candy type of floss would allow for instant disintegration in water (which is actually one of their marketing claims). A compressed puck would need warmer water, similar to how bouillon cubes require boiling water to dissolve into broth.
Am I mad at the idea of fibrous tiles? No. It's just not sustainable in my honest opinion. I am mostly upset about the lack of transparency and the propaganda surrounding their claims. Granulated powder is all I use for laundry and I find it is already fine enough to dissolve cleanly in water, even the 70F - 80F tap water here in Florida. I can't speak for colder taps further north.
The PVA, I agree, is disheartening. There are claims that PVA is biodegradable, but I think they only say that because it is water-soluble. Out of sight, out of mind I suppose...
Reminds me an awful lot how the Powers That Be removed phosphorous from consumer products because of nitrogen-rich waters and the risk of algal blooms. There is tons of agriculture here in Florida, and the run-off causes deadly blooms off both of our coasts. It has nothing to do with phosphorous from household detergents and everything to do with redirecting contaminated lake water into the ocean instead of allowing it to naturally flow south through the Everglades. It's a mess, truly.
More plastic in our waters -- yay! But it's okay because you can't actually see it
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Agreed, Egress. I was also hoping that they were just compressed powder but I suppose a cotton candy type of floss would allow for instant disintegration in water (which is actually one of their marketing claims). A compressed puck would need warmer water, similar to how bouillon cubes require boiling water to dissolve into broth.
Am I mad at the idea of fibrous tiles? No. It's just not sustainable in my honest opinion. I am mostly upset about the lack of transparency and the propaganda surrounding their claims. Granulated powder is all I use for laundry and I find it is already fine enough to dissolve cleanly in water, even the 70F - 80F tap water here in Florida. I can't speak for colder taps further north.
The PVA, I agree, is disheartening. There are claims that PVA is biodegradable, but I think they only say that because it is water-soluble. Out of sight, out of mind I suppose...
Reminds me an awful lot how the Powers That Be removed phosphorous from consumer products because of nitrogen-rich waters and the risk of algal blooms. There is tons of agriculture here in Florida, and the run-off causes deadly blooms off both of our coasts. It has nothing to do with phosphorous from household detergents and everything to do with redirecting contaminated lake water into the ocean instead of allowing it to naturally flow south through the Everglades. It's a mess, truly.
More plastic in our waters -- yay! But it's okay because you can't actually see it
Yay WooliteWoman
The big scandal about phosphate in water was that it came far more from powerful agricultural interests than from detergents. The sugar industry sends its fertilizer-rich runoff through the Everglades which has severely damaged that ecosystem. The government could not go up against the agricultural interests so they went after detergent manufacturers. Australia had no native animals that stood in the water and voided their waste until cattle were introduced and brought with them great water pollution and if you think cows are bad, you should read about the horrors of industrial pig farms. There are neighborhoods in California where the sewers do not work properly because without phosphates to keep them unclogged and free-flowing, the you know what builds up in the pipes.
The big scandal about phosphate in water was that it came far more from powerful agricultural interests than from detergents. The sugar industry sends its fertilizer-rich runoff through the Everglades which has severely damaged that ecosystem. The government could not go up against the agricultural interests so they went after detergent manufacturers. Australia had no native animals that stood in the water and voided their waste until cattle were introduced and brought with them great water pollution and if you think cows are bad, you should read about the horrors of industrial pig farms. There are neighborhoods in California where the sewers do not work properly because without phosphates to keep them unclogged and free-flowing, the you know what builds up in the pipes.
thewoolitewoman
Member
I could go on and on about the Everglades, Tom. It's very refreshing to hear that other parts of the country are aware (at least on some level) of the crisis we've got going on down here. Dirty lake water should naturally trickle down through the glades and out the bottom of the state near the Keys, but unnatural redirection through levees and dams results in nutrient-rich, unfiltered lake water going directly into the ocean instead of feeding our dying wetlands. It is so bad, in fact, that you can see the plumes of filthy water swirling off our coasts from the air. I will include some photos published by "Captains For Clean Water" that show what's going on in Florida.
To hear that residential use of phosphorous is the problem is actually insane. It speaks to my main point regarding these Tide Tiles -- the responsibility falls on the consumer to "use cold water" and to "recycle packaging" when the truth is that most Americans /do/ actually do their part to remedy the situation. The majority of people /do/ recycle; the majority of households /do/ use cold water indiscriminately. The amount of reckless waste produced by agriculture and manufacturing is staggeringly disproportionate to residential/personal use, yet we are the ones held responsible and penalized for corporate carelessness.
A surprising majority of recyclables go straight to the landfill whether we put them in the right bin or not.
Here is an excerpt from an article titled "Paper and cardboard waste in the United States: Geographic, market, and energy assessment" published by ScienceDirect.com (which I have linked below):
"Of the total amount of paper and cardboard waste, 56 % was landfilled, 38 % was recycled, and 6 % was combusted. High landfilling rates were observed for compostable paper (90 %) and other paper (69 %). In contrast, 60 % of cardboard was recycled; however, because this category constituted the largest absolute mass of waste, it produced the second-largest absolute amount of landfilled material."
While these stats are better than the stats regarding recyclable plastics, they're still not great considering the amount of paper products we (as a culture) are pushing in place of plastic in conjunction with the amount of deforestation occurring to maintain this culture of paper consumption.
That is what concerns me about these Tide Tile boxes. Tide literally states on their website to just "discard in your recycle bin," when empty, as if that were the end-all/be-all of the issue. As if by intention alone that box will be recycled by virtue of going in the right bin. In what world?
I really have to stress that I am all for laundry innovation and I appreciate the creative minds behind these "new and improved" products, but it's not the products that are broken -- it's the system (for lack of a better word). I fear the issue is far larger than we are actually aware of, and I worry we will never be able to step back far enough to really see it for what it is. It's simply too large and we are too ingrained to ever see beyond what's right in front of us. This issue obviously goes much deeper than just laundry but I find that the history of laundry can be a good entry point to uncover yet another layer of deception and misdirected punishment beyond the diluted talking points we typically see in popular culture. I can't even imagine what else there is to uncover.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2949750723000470
To hear that residential use of phosphorous is the problem is actually insane. It speaks to my main point regarding these Tide Tiles -- the responsibility falls on the consumer to "use cold water" and to "recycle packaging" when the truth is that most Americans /do/ actually do their part to remedy the situation. The majority of people /do/ recycle; the majority of households /do/ use cold water indiscriminately. The amount of reckless waste produced by agriculture and manufacturing is staggeringly disproportionate to residential/personal use, yet we are the ones held responsible and penalized for corporate carelessness.
A surprising majority of recyclables go straight to the landfill whether we put them in the right bin or not.
Here is an excerpt from an article titled "Paper and cardboard waste in the United States: Geographic, market, and energy assessment" published by ScienceDirect.com (which I have linked below):
"Of the total amount of paper and cardboard waste, 56 % was landfilled, 38 % was recycled, and 6 % was combusted. High landfilling rates were observed for compostable paper (90 %) and other paper (69 %). In contrast, 60 % of cardboard was recycled; however, because this category constituted the largest absolute mass of waste, it produced the second-largest absolute amount of landfilled material."
While these stats are better than the stats regarding recyclable plastics, they're still not great considering the amount of paper products we (as a culture) are pushing in place of plastic in conjunction with the amount of deforestation occurring to maintain this culture of paper consumption.
That is what concerns me about these Tide Tile boxes. Tide literally states on their website to just "discard in your recycle bin," when empty, as if that were the end-all/be-all of the issue. As if by intention alone that box will be recycled by virtue of going in the right bin. In what world?
I really have to stress that I am all for laundry innovation and I appreciate the creative minds behind these "new and improved" products, but it's not the products that are broken -- it's the system (for lack of a better word). I fear the issue is far larger than we are actually aware of, and I worry we will never be able to step back far enough to really see it for what it is. It's simply too large and we are too ingrained to ever see beyond what's right in front of us. This issue obviously goes much deeper than just laundry but I find that the history of laundry can be a good entry point to uncover yet another layer of deception and misdirected punishment beyond the diluted talking points we typically see in popular culture. I can't even imagine what else there is to uncover.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2949750723000470
They’ve arrived on the market. Initially read they wouldn’t be available nationwide till June. Ordered a box of them from Walmart. I’ll replicate the test done with the EC30 tiiles/swatches and we’ll see how they compare in cleaning and stain removal. As I’d hoped, the Tide Evo tiles are substantially less expensive—$.45 apiece for a box of forty-four—than the $1 apiece EC30 version.
thewoolitewoman
Member
Thanks for taking one for the team! Do let us know what you find out. I'm also curious to hear the ingredients!
Here’s the ingredient list for the EC30 tiles, which are also made by P&G. We can compare the ingredients list of the Tide Evo Tiles when they arrive. My hunch is the two will be very similar.
lakewebsterkid
Well-known member
Pollution
I have witnessed the agricultural pollution first hand at multiple lakes. You can see the run off being poured straight into them. It is an absolute shame that nothing is being done about that, but our daily lives have been restricted so heavily in comparison. Don’t get me started on green-washing. lol.
I have witnessed the agricultural pollution first hand at multiple lakes. You can see the run off being poured straight into them. It is an absolute shame that nothing is being done about that, but our daily lives have been restricted so heavily in comparison. Don’t get me started on green-washing. lol.
