TL vs FL washer

[cuffs054]

I know this is likely to start a lively conversation but that's not what I am aiming for.
I'm selling my 1898 home and moving into a 1869 version. I want all the toys I can afford. The washer issue has me confused. I know that FL are the new thing, but I can buy a matched GE (or Maytag) set of TL that offer the same capacity and will do the load in less than a hour for around $500. That is less than just the washer would be if I went with FL. I won't get steam or any other things but I can't understand why the FL are going to be better. Talk amongst your selves.

 

[pierreandreply4]

well for 1 thing a top load washer cleans clothes better as well as save time

 

[washer111]

Modern TL washers are not going to get you anywhere near what you are expecting from a washer.

I think the present recommendation for the "Modern TL" category falls to the new Whirlpool BD machines, which seem to work reasonably well enough from the videos I've seen.
Or the SQ machines - however... There has been controversy here recently over their warranty practices and the build-quality of the machines.

If you want to wash in warm to hot water, most modern machines without heaters (FL machines) are not going to deliver this. Period.
We are now faced with "energy regulations" where smart-asses in Government think they can tell us how hot "hot" should be. As a result, Warm washes are now around 85ºF (30-35ºC, IIRC). That's warm for a swimming pool, but barely tepid to the touch, otherwise.

And, if you do want to wash in truly warm-hot water, with today's energy prices, its seriously worth considering an FL with a booster heater. The cycles named "Steam," "Allergens," "Bulky," "Permanent Press" are the codewords for cycles that use enough water, and water that is as hot as you like.

Recently, I had trouble with staining and the likes on my shirts, with our Miele FL. I was cynical about the performance, and was questioning how it can possibly be working for everyone but me.
It turns out, despite the warm-hot water, cool presoaks and long washes, the detergent I was using wasn't up to the task (Take that "Choice" and your claims of Omo being the best you can buy!). Switching back to an old favourite, Bio-Zet, I found things were looking up. Big time. I also got the local supermarket to order in Drive for FL's, since they stopped stocking it recently.

My recommendation, personally, would be to find something with more European origins. I still have my reservations about the US style machines (FL)... They seem hideously big for the job they're meant to do. However, others may be able to rebut these reservations, and offer positive thoughts.

And fair warning - You've just sent the first gunshot in World War 3, or AutomaticWasher.org's Debate on Which Washer is Best Number 963,931.
I'm getting the popcorn. This is gonna be pretty funny to watch

 

[ea56]

I realize that many who view this website don't want to recognize that GE still makes a TL that is as close to traditonal as you can get next to the Speed Queen. I have been using mine since July 2012 and I can honestly say that it is one of the best washers I have owned in 45 years of owning washers. I've owned Maytags, Fisher-Paykel, Kenmore, Whirlpool, Frigidaire automatics,wringers, twin tubs, auto TL's and FL's over the years. This GE has never disappointed me. There is no ATC, hot is tap hot. It gives a full fill wash and rinse, there is no locking lid, computer or "load sensing". It has never unbalanced and every load comes out thoroughly clean and rinsed, the first time. The controls are simple electro-mechanical, using an old fashioned timer and the price is very reasonable. In my opinion the GE GTWN2800 is far and away superior to the current breed of Whirlpool TL's, but that is just my opinion. I replaced a Whirlpool Cabrio with this GE. The Cabrio was POS. The only other washer that I was ever as pleased with was a Westinghouse FL, it gave 7 years of trouble free service and we sold it with the house and the new owners used it without problems for several years more. But the new FL's have too much computer control to suit me, so I'll stay away from them.[this post was last edited: 5/12/2015-01:20]

 

[gpevas]

Top loaders & front loaders?

I have a wringer washer I mostly do my wash in. I used to have a Kenmore top loader that I trashed after 20 years. I just bought a Kenmore Elite front loader. I got the matching dryer which I LOVE!! The front loader in my opinion does NOT get my cloths clean as my wringer washer. I know parts of our country has a water problem (not enough). We in the Cleveland have our lake and other parts of America have no water issues so I wish they sold regular top,loaders like in the past. Just me venting!!

 

[askolover]

I switched

to FL in 1997. I grew up with Mom's faithful Maytags and can't complain one bit on their function. My first washer of my own was a used GE filterflo...however, way back in 1988 or 89 I was working in the library in high school and on slow days I could sit and look at all those fancy magazines like "Southern Accents" and "Architectural Digest"....and that's when it happened. I saw an ad for a FL washer from Germany. I called the 800 number (no web address imagine that) and had info sent to my house. It had multiple brands in the packet...Miele, AEG, and maybe Bosch. I knew then I'd have one some day. Forward to 1997...I'm getting ready to buy a house and I've found another brand from Sweden...Asko. I like what I see and read about this brand at this time. So...based on the information I'd read and heard up until that time regarding European products and how good Volvo's were back then (I know, a real educated purchase) so I decided to get one. It was a simple machine, all mechanical, heats its own water, etc. It gets delivered and installed. I wash my first load.....I should have popped some popcorn because I was hypnotized. I thought it was going to fly away when it kicked into high speed spin. It cleaned so well! It got out stains the GE crawled away from. It used hardly any water and my detergent use was cut to 1/4 (no HE detergents then). My clothes dried in 20 minutes in that old $50 Whirlpool electric dryer I found at a yard sale.  Forward to 2005...the motor goes out on the Asko...so I decide to get a "larger American size" machine to replace it.  Got a Maytag (Samsung) Neptune.  HATED IT!  Too darn big! Returned it to Lowes 2 days later and replaced the motor in the much smaller Asko.  You know Everything in America has to be Bigger!  Our fridges are bigger, our washers, dryers, food portions, you name it.  Bigger is not necessarily better.  I personally think these super sized FL machines are going to self-destruct from all the G forces inside with heavy wet clothes.  I'm dreading the day my little Asko can't be fixed because it means I'll have to find some electronic piece of junk to replace an outdated mechanical marvel that's now 18 years old and I just installed its 3rd motor.  Still cheaper than a new washer.

 

As Washer111 said above: 

"My recommendation, personally, would be to find something with more European origins. I still have my reservations about the US style machines (FL)... They seem hideously big for the job they're meant to do."

 

It's late and I'm sleepy so I'm rambling...sorry....I'll say this...I'm still using the same bath towels and washcloths I bought over 12 years ago in a bundle from Costco.....they aren't worn out yet and they get bleached in hot water several times a week.  Mother has replaced hers a few times since I left home after being beaten to death in her faithful old Maytag.  And since the FL uses less water even with a prewash and 4 rinses built in (and I mean deep as in half way or more up the door glass), I don't have to skimp on my showers with a tiny little showerhead that has less water pressure than I do.  My water bill is cheap and my gas bill even cheaper.  And in my big American GE gas dryer, things dry super quick since they are almost dry when they go into the dryer.  Just my .02 at almost 3 in the morning.

 

[henene4]

Usually I'm all for FL.
BUT... You mentioned your new house is 1869... Not knowing how it's build, I will generally question the advantage in such a situation.
You see, FLs wash. Better. Not as fast, but better. If they would not, they wouldn't be all over the globe by now (oppossed to TLs).
Now, the only problem is: While a TL only creates horizontal forces during spin, a FL transfers its force into the flooring.
I'm not a architect, but I guess in a house build in 1869, that could cause a lot of vibration all over the house. So you might check how the flooring is.

But on a set for 500$: DO NOT BUY IT. I mean, OK, it sounds OK, but a washer AND a dryer for 500$ as a set will just never get you any kind of flexibility or durability.
I'm not someone who says only TOL is the best (for most, MOL is just fine), but just think what it means to produce 2 big applainces which need a certain amount of metal, plus quite a work to produce, plus transportation, plus the stores profit. Your washer would be produced for a good 100$, at the most. You simply can't demand anything from a washer that might cost 250$. It *might* *clean* *ok* (and yes, that is spelled intentionally this way), but for how long? Under what circumstances?

 

[washer111]

While I think vibration may be an issue, I would think people with houses like these might have the set placed in a basement, outdoor laundry or on the ground level where vibration is an issue.

The lessened water loading on the (presumably old) plumbing would probably be beneficial, too.

 

[washerdude]

Well for me..

Its front loader now. We used to have an inglis direct drive top loader. I thought it was the best cleaner out there at first. But when it began to show signs of *major* problems, we thought maybe we should give modern units a try. IMHO, I really don't see HE toploaders being all that effective still and pretty rough on clothing. So we then went for a Whirlpool Duet front loader (WFW72HEDW). When we got it delivered we noticed that the feet were kinda...bent. We used the thing but vibrations were really bad even in a balanced load. Keeping in mind that our laundry room is on the second floor. So we bought new ones, and vibration was cut down by 50 percent. After using this washer for about 7 months. I'm happy with our choice. Vibrations are low for being on the second floor, EVERYTHING comes out clean even on the normal cycle and cycle times are way shorter then our old washer. So my personal choice from now on is a front loader. As for vibrations, I think you should check the floor consdering that its 1869 or have the floor reinforced.

 

[mr_b]

Recent FL Convert

Living in drought ravaged San Diego, when it was time to replace our top load washer of twenty years, we went with a Speed Queen front loader. Our water went from 45 gallons a load to under around 12 gallons a load. A normal wash is done in 45 minutes and it has dynamic balancing during the spin cycle thus no vibration. This machine runs quiet and it came with a 5 year warranty. Oh, and it cleans clothes well also. It holds almost three bushel baskets of laundry (22 lbs. or 3.43 cubic feet) and is no bigger than my previous washer being 27 inches wide (about 69cm). I have been using Tide detergent with great results and I am planning on trying Pesil when the Tide runs out now that it is available at Walmart. This machine is not fancy but it gets the job done faster than most FL's.

 

[liamy1]

As much...

As I love TL machines, FLs win in every respect. FL clean better, are gentler on clothing, in most instances offer a bigger capacity and of course are more energy efficient.

Of course, a machine (whatever type) is only going to be as good as to the needs of the user it meets.

 

[jerrod6]

As someone mentioned above water use plummets with the use of a FL, and this is ONE of the reasons I won't consider a Top loader.  Even the energy efficient TL are rated by efficiency in  "Their class" because even these use more water than a FL.  

 

Also agree that buying one for $500 today is equivalent to buying a $250 model 15 years ago.  You know it isn't going to last at all. 

 

[cuffs054]

EA56, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I don't know if the new GE will actually give tap hot and full rinse, but I just can't see the big bucks for a FL that may not last. SQ still has tap hot and full rinse but they are very proud of them.

 

[ea56]

Cuffs054, that was exactly the way I looked at it too. I know that the current GE GTWN2800 will still give a full fill rinse simply by using the Power Rinse option, And I'm pretty sure that you will still get hot water at the same temp as it comes from your water heater, mine does and I don't see that they have made any changes. If the Speed Queen FL wasn't so expensive, $1,799.99 in my area, plus $79.95 for del. I would consider it as I do feel guilty using so much water during our drought here in Calif. But I conserve water every other way that I can and I really do love my GE TL, it works great, its simple and it completes a super size load in 45-50 mins., plus I can wash a king size comforter or bedspread, saving the expense and inconvenience of going to the laundromat. I can complete a full weeks wash for 2 adult men( except bedding, I change the bed on a different day) in 2 hrs. 15 mins. thats 3 loads washed and dried. To me thats pretty good. I don't often recommend products, but I feel confident that anyone looking for a good, basic, old school washer at a reasonable price (on sale the washer and dryer are approx. $500 to $539 each) will be happy with this machine.[this post was last edited: 5/12/2015-20:46]

 

[mark_wpduet]

FL washer!!!

as long as it has a built in heater and cycles like bulky, allergen, etc that use more water - would be my choice.

 

[cuffs054]

The search continues. Went to my default site (Sears. Actually Kmart) and found this washer. The best it can offer is a Downy Ball for softner!

http://i.sears.com/s/d/pdf/mp-tc/spinpdf/spin_prod_1123457412

 

[electron1100]

Dirty for years

I am puzzled, I have the impression that America washed its clothes in centre post machines for about 40-50 years, now FL machines are making inroads into your country, am I to assume that Americans walked around in grubby clothes for all those years? I think this because of the superior washing claims made for FL machines.

I grew up with twin tubs and FL machines and on the one occasion I had a centre post machine it washed and rinsed really well

Also the efficiency of a machine cant be commented on until the machine dies, thinking of one member on here who lives in a European country that produces some of the best machines available chose a machine that was made half way round the world and so had to be shipped from the far east to Europe and it then only lasted 18 months, is this good efficiency I think not.

So machines that use as little energy as possible, do get dirty clothes clean all the time and are made in the buyers country and last a good 10 years can be perhaps be considered efficient.

Also from what I deduce about machines in America the SQ is a home made machine that is well built and performs well, if they made one with a heater then you might be on to something, other than that sneak over here and buy a European machine

If you are going to live in area that does not have water issues why not get a older centre post machine, plenty of help if you need it on here and washday will be so much more FUN

Good Luck
Gary

 

[henene4]

Was that me?

Yeah. The Panasonic was a great machine. As long as it worked. (Sorry if you did not mean me!)

TLs do wash. They do rinse. They do both fine. But when it comes down to stuff like pillows, heavy soiled whites and such, FLs are just outscoring. Mostly just by the basic physics of the FL it self.

You have to divide between efficency and ecological impact.
Efficency it self is defined by the cost for the consumer buying, using and getting rid of the product.
The efficency we usually talk about only focuses on the usage of the machine as buying and trashing usually cost the same for about equal TLs and FLs. That data deterines it's running efficency as well.
You talked about the overall impact a machine has on the enviroment. That includes production, shipping, using and trashing. So, efficency is not equal ecoloigcal impact.

On a side note: Washers and simmilar big goods are usually shipped by ship (no pun intended) if they come from China etc. And ships are incerdibly efficent in terms of fuel on long distance journeys if broken down to what they can transport in one go. They still produce a lot of CO₂, but are far better than planes for example.

 

[electron1100]

amusing

an amusing response in as much as you cannot see that a machine with a short service life does not reflect on its efficiency and ecological impact, to me the two are very much part and parcel of the same deal.

What would be the point of buying a machine that used only 2 ltr of water to do an entire wash if you had to buy a new one every 6 months because it wears out

Your Panasonics environmental impact was initially in the country where it was made, then the shipping and transport of the machine from the docks to your home, the time and effort spent trying to get it repaired, this machines claim to be "ECO" friendly is 0.

The new rules in France makes absolute sense about the length of Guarantee, the price of parts for the item, this will perhaps keep the public from buying junk just because it is cheap.

Expected life should always be factored in to the efficiency rating of a machine

Gary