TL vs FL washer

[henene4]

For us, the machine wasn't efficent at all by your definition.

But though it was rather resource efficent when used, it was everything but cheap when baught. It had rather big impact on the enviroment, however, that did not make it less efficent in terms of usage.
Efficent during use: Yes.
Efficent while production: Average.
Efficent during shipping: less.
Final impact on the enviroment: Bigger than usual.

You do make a perfectly true point: One SHOULD consider the whole impact, not only the efficency.
But, who should rate the impact how? I mean, one can guestimate the way through, but then companys would sue the heck out of the EU as one could argue you can't unify the impact and durability testing.
However you can unify the testing for the usage.

And, being honest, I doubt that transportation is such a tremendous difference seen what it takes to produce a washer. Just think about what it takes to produce the metal and get it into shape. Not knowing the exact numbers, but I guess if one WOULD go picking numbers about that, CO₂ emmisions for steel production would outweigh the transportation emmisions by quite a bit.

And personally I think a consumer should have enough mind about what he is buying him self. Not that I don't mean regulations are bad, but I think a consumer can weigh for him self if he is OK with a machine beimg shipped from China.

 

[mark_wpduet]

No Grubby Clothes

Most of the conventional agitator TL washers did a great job if you didn't over load them, but they could be rough on clothes. I think the ONLY reason FL washers started making their way into the USA is the need for energy conservation. If you notice when the first entered they were HE (high efficiency), but the ones in EURO weren't, they were just normal front load washers all those years....When we finally get the FL washers becoming popular here, they are all HE....Not to mention that we don't have 220 or 240 voltage for washers....We do for the dryer, range, so why not a washer? I dunno....

 

[askolover]

220v

Yeah, the only way to get a 220/240V washer is to get one from across the pond...like Asko, Miele, Bosch, Fagor, Blomberg, etc. I'd gladly buy an American one if I could get it with a true boosted HOT wash for whites! I wish I could build my own. Asko is my favorite due to their front door seal simplicity, but their reliability has gone to pot in recent years.

 

[laundromat]

In all the decades I've been in love with laundry equipment and had,pretty much, every type of washer made, my preference is front loaders. THEY ARE NOT A NEW IDEA. Bendix introduced the very first AUTOMATIC quarter back in the thirties and they would have done better then they did in the 60s and later up until 1995 when the new,improved FRIGIDAIRE, Maytag Neptune and Whirlpool Duets came out. Even Lever Brothers was on target when,during that same year,introduced Wisk HE. A new brand of low sliding detergent made soupy for front loading washers.
No sharp blades,n

o beating,pounding or pulling. Just tumbling the cloth@es in soapy wash or clear rinse. The water level is'/)no issue because,as long as the fabrics are co.

 

[laundromat]

In all the decades i've been collecting appliances and have seen or had pretty much every method of agitation in washing machines, my preference is front loading washers. Unlike most people who assume they're a new idea,you're wrong. Bendix introduced them back in 1938. They had a pre wash,main wash,three ringers (one spray to remove excess suds and soap scrum, a spin,then two deep rinsed and a final high speed spin dry.) Sound familiar? Yes the Westinghouse Laundronats had a similar method. You can wash shoes,sleeping bags,tents,huge bed spreads,rugs,stuffed toy animals...,etc. Not recommended to be washed in a top loading agitator washer. No sharp agitator gains,lower water usage,lower detergent usage,higher speed spin that extracts more water and no transmission.Flush,lift,turn,tumble about 60 times a minute. Twelve seconds of clockwise tumbling,a three second pause then twelve more counterclockwise. In my LG models, there is no pre set spin direction. A rarity. because the others are set to spin counterclockwise at the factory.Fourteen hundred rpm final spin,huge capacity and a great reputation in CR for most dependable, fewest repairs,great performance and friendly design.i have had mine four years now and got them free from Sallys Shop and Smith's. No washer I ever had before outperformed my LGs. They also have quick cycles. A wash with two rinsed in 35 minutes. I use that for bath towels and daily wardrobe. I use the longer cycles for bed linens, rugs,and Jim's work clothes.Extremely quiet and fun to watch as it gets my clothes spotless.

 

[tomturbomatic]

My SQ, Creda and both Mieles spin clockwise.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

It is surprising to hear that some Fl washers in North America don't have heating elements for the water.

Heating elements in modern washers are more efficient and more durable than they used to be. Most European machine these days are cold fill only, however, EBAC, the British washer manufacture are bringing back hot fill as they claim it is quick and cheaper to sue hot fill than for a washer to heat its water, but I am not sure that would suit everyone, although it will be nice t have the option.

Front loaders spin faster, are generally quitter, clean clothes better while using less water and energy and take up less space.

 

[mark_wpduet]

It is amazing though

that even at 110 V, my American Duet gets REALLY hot on sanitary. Obviously not boiling hot, but in the 150's F I think, although I think the newer Duets get to the 130s F on Sanitary? I'm not sure why that temp went down and I could be wrong, it's just something I remember reading. But when my Duet is on Sanitary, the outside of the machine feels like dishwasher that's been running a long time, so you know that water is HOT and you know what comes out of there is going to be clean...Having had a built in heater on my washer for ten years, I just couldn't go to one without one, and that's the only reason I wouldn't get a SQ, because I know SQ's are superior quality to the others.

 

[henene4]

130°F

Than, sanitation won't be approved by the NSF most likely. They require to remove 99,5% of bacteria to be removed. Though they do not mention a temperature, it's rather difficult to reach this at 130°F. 140°F sounds more like what's doable. But of corse, one could programm a temp hold from, let's say, 130°, for 20 minutes, with a target temp of 150°. That would shorten the cycle, probably ensure sanitation and get you a super hot wash.

The Allergy approvement requires 131°F for 3 (in think not consecutive) minutes. So, an Allergy cycle will most likely be faster, but not as sanitary.

However: I can still get 180°F out of our AEG (Electrolux) and probably more from the Bauknecht (Whirlpool; probably north of 190°, close to 200°). How I love my 240V

 

[jerrod6]

Growing up my mother had a westinghouse FL machine so it is correct that they are not a new technology in the USA.  There were separate instructions on detergent one for top loaders and one for front loaders, so one detergent was used for both.

 

I got my Miele washer in 2003 and I don't think the new version of front loaders were on the market here in the USA until after that.  There was no He detergent until these washers hit the market.  The thing that makes them He is nothing more than the fact that they were using less water than a traditional top loader so I think the term He was branding used to get consumers to buy the product and ofcourse the Energy Star program played a large role in this.

 

My machine is 220V and the advantage is that it can start with a cold fill in a prewash and heat it to warm or hot , very fast.  My machine can do a 190F load in 54 minutes, so I think the advantage of 220V is high heat and less time required. 

 

We probably don't have 220V washers here because the entire country is running off 110V.  To use an electric dryer or range you must pay extra to run 220V to the appliance.  Most people pay for a dryer, but no one is used to having to pay to run electric to a washer.....Thus we are minus 220V washers. 

 

Miele still sells a 220V machine but it is more expensive than other washers on the market.  Most people are not going to buy it.

 

[mark_wpduet]

Wait.

Could you just unplug the dryer and plug the washer into the dryer outlet, then when the wash is done, plug the dryer in?

LOL - I know that isn't very practical, but I guess if you have easy access to the plugs, you could.

 

[mrb627]

Heaters in Washers

Are slowly going away. Even now, machines that have them are getting cooler and cooler hot limits. Detergents will have to get better to keep up, but it is happening...

Malcolm

 

[henene4]

I don't think so.
LG swapped out most of their steam generators for washes at 65°C (150°F) or simmilar on the US models.
Everybody still offers Sanatize cycles without Oxi and they need at least 140°F, if not more.
Washers with heaters can be found further down the line today.
And even TLs now get heaters.

 

[lordkenmore]

>Could you just unplug the dryer and plug the washer into the dryer outlet, then when the wash is done, plug the dryer in?

>LOL - I know that isn't very practical, but I guess if you have easy access to the plugs, you could.

More practically, perhaps someone could create an adapter of some sort. Perhaps an adapter that creates 2 outlets out of one. Or perhaps the washer could have a plug that is like Christmas tree lights. Plug it into the dryer outlet, and plug the dryer into the back of the washer plug.

However, there would be problems. The big one is that I'm guessing it would only be safe running one appliance at a time. And the washer and dryer would need to be close to each other. They usually are, but I've seen plenty of setups where the dryer is located away from the washer. Indeed, my current laundry room is such a setup, although I think a cord from a washer could still reach the dryer outlet. But I have seen at least 2 basement installations where the washer is quite a distance away.

 

[askolover]

Asko

If a person has an Asko pair, the washer just plugs into the back of the dryer...and you can use both at the same time.  I don't have a pair...my dryer is a GE gas one.  I don't like electric dryers.  Gas does the same job for much much less $$$ in this part of the country.  And it's my understanding that our electricity is cheaper than most other parts of the country due to TVA.

 

[mrb627]

Nope.

Heaters are a dying fad my friend.
Sanitary temp went from 170 down to something like 130 in a couple of years. Soon, sanitizing will be chemically handled, not thermally.
It is coming, accept it.

Malcolm

 

[laundromat]

Tom,
The Miele Touchtronic giant capacity washer I have and the SQ commercial ones I used at the laundromat spin counterclockwise.

 

[laundromat]

I use the sanitary cycles for rugs,bath towels,sheets and pillows. Once in a while,my running shoes. Otherwise,hot or warm wash,cold rinse.

 

[appnut]

My 2 year old Duet, Sanitary is 155 to 158.  Mark, Allergen is what heats to 130 degrees.  It has an NSF certification, but different than the 155 degree sanitize certification. 

 

[appnut]

Malcolm, I hope not all models will have that end result.  I hope they'll still offer one model with the heating capabilities.