To pre-rinse dishes or not to pre-rinse...

[combo52]

Pre-rinsing dishes because of hard water

Many food, soils, including sugars and acids actually will improve the performance in hard water.

But it’s a free world if you have all that time to waste rinsing dishes and you want to ruin your Plumbing and your dishwasher and your dishes go for it.

We have some customers that have two identical dishwashers, and we’ve been able to prove by putting in identical loads, one rinsed and one not that the dishes actually come out cleaner when they went in dirtier.

John

 

[awooff]

Reply 38

Can understand the desire/need to rinse silver as "on the door" basket is tricky - for best results load plates in front and be sure no nesting of silver with up and down, mismatched loading.

As far as the rest of the load - powercleans are my fav, unless the mesh filter is plugged with calcium/gel detergent buildup - cannot imagine prerinsing w a powerclean wash system. They handle plenty of soil amazingly well if loaded correctly.

 

[joeekaitis]

Let the dishwasher do it

 

The high-temp wash option on our previous Whirlpool-built Kenmore and our current Whirlpool overrides the soil sensor during the pre-rinses (2 for Normal, 3 for Heavy).  It then fills with fresh water for the wash instead of reusing the pre-rinse water.

 

Possibly other brands do the same.

 

Your dishes get a pre-rinse and your hands stay dry.

 

 

[gelaundry4ever]

dishwasher doing the prerinse

I completely agree. I let the dishwasher be the dishwasher. Besides, it already does a prerinse anyway.

 

[wayupnorth]

My 1995 Whirlpool owners manual does say I do not have to pre-rinse dishes, BUT if the dishwasher is not used for an extended length of time, which I do only when it is fully loaded, usually about once a week, Whirlpool recommended to either run rinse and hold cycle or pre-rinse under a faucet to keep odors down. I wouldnt pre-rinse if I had a full load all the time but since it is just me, the dishwasher will only be run with a full load.

 

[DADoES]

 
I found wayyy back with the KDI-17a that running Rinse/Hold caused much more odor (in no more time than one evening to the next) than not running it.  Quit using R/H then, items were barely scraped, rarely had cleaning failures even considering the one-armed wonder-ness of it.

 

[mark_wpduet]

I remember that rinse/hold from the past and I never ever used it... I always remember wondering what "hold" meant... I understand that it's a rinse only cycle...but after it's done what's it holding for? The main cycle? I mean, if it's rinse only why not just say "rinse only"

 

[foraloysius]

I run the dishwasher only two or three times per week. I leave the door ajar to prevent the dirty dishes to get smelly. Better dried on food than a stinky machine.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

ruined racks

I have seen ruined racks all because of prerinsing. Today's detergents are caustic and very harsh. Take Cascade Platinum Plus for example. I leave dishes all crusty and food stuck smeared, stuck on or even burnt on and it cuts through the worst messes. My racks are still intact because I refuse to prerinse the dishes when the dishwasher already does it. Also, mine also has sensors that calculate how dirty the dishes are. It's better to use the dishwasher to its full potential.

 

[DADoES]

 
Hold refers to leaving the unwashed load wet and waiting for addition of more dirty dishware to run a full wash-rinse-dry cycle.  Some dishwashers had a Rinse-Dry cycle for freshening seldom-used items that may be dusty from storage.

 

[launderess]

Rinse and Hold

In days before enzyme containing automatic dishwasher detergents certain soils proved difficult. Notably protein based things such as egg, milk and so on. This was more true if things were allowed to sit and such soils dried onto dishware.

Rinse and hold allowed a housewife or anyone else to say load breakfast dishes let machine "rinse", then allow dishes to sit until full load would be run later in day or whenever.

Idea was to release Madame or whoever from manually rinsing dishes before they went into machine.

As for modern dishwasher detergents being "caustic", well yes they are, but far less than previous years.

Back in day much like commercial/industrial automatic dishwasher detergents still sold today that for home use was a powerful mix of highly caustic chemicals and chlorine bleach. Things had to be that way since only thing going for you was hot (to scalding) water, force of spray and very high pH to break down and remove soils.

With enzyme based dishwasher detergents pH can come down as they do the heavy work of breaking apart soils. You still need a moderately high pH if for nothing else to saponify grease and oil based soils commonly found on dishes, pots and pans.

Furthermore older dishwashers ran very short cycles. That high pH and very hot water didn't need long to work, especially when machines used copious amounts of water that was basically blasted at dishes. My vintage GE Mobile Maid actually moves about slightly from force of water jets. You can hear dish and glass wear being beaten about which likely explains why so much as become marked.

Modern dishwasher run normal cycles that take several hours, more than enough time to get things clean using lower pH levels and reduced spraying action.[this post was last edited: 5/20/2023-23:46]

 

[launderess]

Adding My Voice To Others

Since this thread has been reactivated...

Studies have shown consistently through years pre-rinsing dishes before going into dishwasher not only wastes water, but also can be harmful to machine.

It's like washing one's hair with whole "lather, rinse and repeat". Notice with second application of shamppoo one usually gets tons more froth. Well that's all excess to requirements surfactant having nothing to work upon because hair is already clean.

Anyone who needs to pre-rinse their dishes before they go into dishwasher needs to get another machine. That or maybe change detergents.








[this post was last edited: 5/20/2023-23:42]

 

[maytaga806]

This is what I tell people. It’s no different than washing clothes. You wouldn’t take a typical dirty shirt in the laundry and take it to the sink to run it under water before tossing it into a washer would you? No, same should be for your dishes. Scrape, load, done. Check filter every week or few weeks depending on usage. I recently got this new portable full sized GE dishwasher made by Haier, and it has both a manual filter and a food chopper and since it has the help from the food chopper the filter keeps itself very clean, I rarely need to wash it. But where alot of consumers fail when following this method is they don’t clean their dishwashers. They don’t even guess it would need that. I run a monthly sanitization cycle w/ Cascade cleaner after washing the filter and the entire floor of the tub by hand and around door and gaskets. I’ve followed this method for ten years now and I’ve had nothing but the cleanest dishware in town!

 

[combo52]

New Haier built GE dishwasher

Interesting, I am unaware of any chopper in that pump assembly, the drain impeller will and macerate a little bit of food waste as it goes down the drain, but it doesn’t have a chopper as such that grinds up food to help it get filtered out.

John

 

[Chetlaham]

Blame the appliance manufacturers

Most dishwashers sold were merely a gimmick. IMO pre-rinsing comes from normal healthy able minded people using GE, D&M, Westinghouse, Durawash, any machine that lacked an actual fine filter. Followed by poor spray patterns, short prewahses, too short main washes, excessive pump water carry over, and inadequate or no water heating in the main wash. 90% of all DWs installed in homes merely fountain-ed unfiltered water, and still those that didn't had other performance marring flaws.

 

I come to this conclusion from my own mother whom I convinced to start using the GE DW in our new place. At the time I knew nothing about appliances and we were all happy we'd never have to wash another utensil. We were wrong. We loaded everything as is but after a few loads with particles on everything, even trying various DW detergents like Cascade,  she started prewashing everything spotless. Called maintenance and then a repair tech who both said nothing was wrong with the machine and that it was essentially normal to pre-rinse dishes beforehand. The next load she told me "DWs are a gimmick" with the rest of the rest of us disappointed saying we had a feeling it was to good to be true.

 

 

Thinking about it the whole experience makes me very angry. A simple pull out fine filter in the sump would have solved the problem, but for some reason manufacturers thought it better to take large food particulates and redistribute them as thousands of smaller ones.

 

 

Despite having a Whirlpool built Maytag, my mother still pre-washes everything. I keep having to remind her but she says she doesn't want to chance it. I now understand the saying "you never get a second chance at making a first impression" 

 

Truth is unless a DWs can't take scraped dishes that haven't seen a single drop of water post meal with several days of dried on food into spotless residue free, particle free surfaces then its a gimmick. 

 

Outside of the WP Power Clean Filter Module, WP Point Voyagers, most Maytag JetCleans, some back filter orbital GEs and some modern machines the rest are simply expensive decoys. 

 

If you want energy efficiency laws to work, don't regulate how much water or electricity an appliances uses but rather its performance. Performance dictates energy use. Not the other way around. 

 

[combo52]

Dishwashers were never gimmicks

Hi Chet oh, dishwashers have been highly useful work, saving appliances, almost since they were introduced, yes, some of the early machines were not nearly as effective as dishwashers today, but they still saved a great deal of labor.

You did not mention what age or approximate model your GE dishwasher was that you felt works so poorly.

It’s true GE never made a really good dishwasher until the multi orbit wash models of the early 80s but earlier models were also quite useful and would produce clean dishes without rinsing.

I find it interesting that you as an appliance and technical expert can’t convince your own mother to use a new dishwasher properly , I hope you have a good relationship. Otherwise that’s pretty interesting. My parents always respected the opinions of their kids and generally follow advice as we follow their advice when it was good.

John.

 

[Chetlaham]

Dishwashers have often resulted in more water and energy being wasted pre-washing than that used through hand washing alone.

 

I can not agree that a dishwasher without a fine filter can produce particle free dishes simply because it just does not happen. Even with the best detergent, rinse aid and sheeting action you'll still find particles in the concave recesses of cups and saucers.

 

The age of the GE DW wouldn't matter, we both know that up until 2007 BOL and most MOL models did not have a fine filter of any kind. 

 

Once a habit is set, it is hard to break. This is not only true for my mother, but millions of Americans. Hence why this debate exists in the first place.

 

Unless a DW passes the coffee ground test where 2-3 table spoons of average grounds sprinkled inside at the start of the cycle can not be found at the end of the cycle than the machine will eventually condition users into pre-washing dishes. When you find a redeposited particle has essentially melted and fused to the plate in the heated dry cycle you'll make sure it never happens again.

 

 

 

 

[iiijohnnymaciii]

I purchased a new BOL 3 rack Kitchenaid 2nd generation manual filter machine in 2021. I use 2 tbs cascade in main wash and 1 tbs in prewash. I completely fill my machine with dishes. After the wash is done, I never have particles left on top of my cups, ect. If water is left on cups, the water is always crystal clear. I never pre-rinse either. The machine uses 9-10 gallons on my prowash (sensor wash) cycle. Filing both sides of my sink with water and replacing at least once (which would be the case if I manually washed all the dishes my dishwasher accommodates for) would account for 8 gallons anyway.

 

[appnut]

John, my mom was the queen of her castle. I'm sure I was a source of embarassment to her at times. My dad told me as I got to early teen years and their friends began discovering my unusual hobby and knowlege I had, I'd be contacteed to help them solve what was wrrong with their appliance/how to use it and also when replacements were needed. My dad beamed with pride. My mom began sabotaging my dishasher loads after she discovered I wasn't fully rinsing. While we still had WK #1, she iscovered there were remnants of scrambled egg on the filter after a Full Cycle following Saturday morning breakfast. She went ballistic and told me in no uncertain terms was I to evr o taht again. After cleaning the filter, she ran the whole load again. Her sabotaging was placing a cookie sheet on top of the dishware in the top rack and if there was food remnants, it would all collect on top of the cookie sheet. She'd slyly do this after I'd left the kitchen area. I didn't usually unload the dishasher and it took me a few times to figure out what she'd been doing the few times I did unload the DW and discovered the cookie sheet on top. Several times a year they'd have 4-12 couples over to play Duplicate Bridge (dinner included) and she became the envey of alll her friends because I'd stay up late after evryone went home and ran the 2 or so loads of dishes after those parties. Sometime after I bought the GSD1200, my parents were visiting. Mom saw me put really dirty stuff in the ishwashre after dinner. She commented, that won't get clean. I replied just wait. She was bowled over. Soon after, they ecided to replace the original cooktop & wall oven as well as replace the 1973/74 Rotorack. But she only used Rinse & Hold, Energy Saver Wash, or China Crystal cycles. I doubt no other cycles were used from that time until they sold the house in May 2001/2002.

 

[launderess]

My vintage GE Mobile Maid dishwasher leaves things yibble free. Just scrape and into the machine things go.

Then again normal cycle is W-R-W-R-R-D with copious amounts of hot water, and spray jet pressure that could scrub paint off walls.