Today's POD - KitchenAid dishwasher

[kenmoreguy64]

To all the KitchenAid knowledgeables out there...What is the model number of the machine in the ad today?

We got one just like that in the ad as a built-in around 1974 or 1975. It replaced a builder's grade 1967 Hotpoint that was not well liked in our house, and my Mom really enjoyed the KA.

All these years later, I see so much about them on the site, and I'm reminded that I dislike my 2003 GE Tall-tub Profile machine. Prior to that I had a 1991 GE Potscrubber 1200 (no comparison in my opinion whatsoever). I'm thinking I would like to put myself out of my Profile misery and get a vintage KA. I would like one of mid-70s vintage like the Superba we had, or newer.

What are your recommendations?

Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[re563]

That model was the KDS-17. Awesome dishwashers. On the Superba the full cycled was only 52 mins. Everything always came out clean--God how I wish Hobart would buy back Kitchenaid.

 

[toploader55]

I Agree...

Even the Hobart Machines have suffered over the years. That is for the Restaurant Industries. mechcanical Timers were the best and most reliable. Here on Cape Cod there are still '50's and 60's machines that are still up and running and the newer ones can't touch their reliability. Give me an AM 12 in a restaurant with the cast iron wash arms, and they are still the best.Manual fill valve and the ability to over ride the auto timer they still amaze me. One little buss fuse and the machine could go down on a saturday night. As long as you had a "spare".
Steve probably won't agree with me.

 

[stevet]

You are right, Ed!

I would not agree that the newer Hobart machines have suffered a fate anywhere near as bad as what Whirlpool has done to the product line. There really isn't the true quality that people expect from the name anymore. I think anyone can see that it is nothing more than a whirlpool clone especially when they are displayed side by side in stores. At that point, people either shop price or they stubbornly cling to the notion that the KA name means better quality than WP or Kenmore.

As far as the commercial lines go, having been in this industry for nearly 30 years, I can say that the AM14 made the earlier models look like crap especially the 11 and 12's with their ancient electronics. Very typical of the 60's-70's technology and of course they would have seemed worse than the earlier models because the electronics were more prone to breaking down than the electromechanical models.

For the record, the AM11 was the last model with the cast iron washarms(a look alike arm is still used by Stero which btw is also owned by ITW which owns Hobart)The 12 and 14 series used the stainless steel arms which really throw the water around the tank.
What made the 14 the most reliable machine they ever made was the advance in computer technolgy and the single circuit board design with all the adjustment features built in. Also, they went to a strictly 24 volt electrical system which eliminated many breakdowns.The newer AM15 uses even newer technology in their controller and is, in fact, the same controller we use in our undercounter units and now in our venerable C-Line style conveyor machines. True versatility was designed into it from the start.
The AM15 also uses less than half the water that the older units did and the C-lines achieved the same results when they incorporated the "Opti-Rinse" technolgy.

As many of you know, we are seeing more and more machines from every manufacturer coming with smaller water outlets on their washarms.
Hobart did the same on the AM15 series and rather than flooding the dishes with tremendous amounts of water like the earlier machines, the smaller jets give a more concentrated and more effective scrubbing pattern to clean the dishes better.
Time and technology marches on and sometimes it is successful.
You can click on the link and then select the windows media presentation on the Opti Rinse technology.

http://www.hobartcorp.com/products/warewashing/opti-rinse-technology

 

[tlee618]

"-God how I wish Hobart would buy back Kitchenaid." I agree with you Robert, or why they don't just come out with a home machine with the Hobart name on it I will never know. Seems to me there would be a demand for a high quality machine that could do its job in one hour or less.

 

[toploader55]

Oops

I knew I would "bead reading" soon for screwing up my model #'s. LOL. It's ashame that I have not been to an Food Service Equipment show in years and I mean years. The machine I was thinking about was the AM 9 T2 I just watched the vid on the Opti Rinse.Extra Credit.Quite a difference on the Booster Heater Comparison Chart.
Now back to the subject :
I think if you took the Superba KDS 18 or any KA with the upper rack spray arm, and gave it a more efficient overhead spray(6 times the size of the constant rinse),beef up the pump to handle the overhead spray arm, you'd have one fabulous machine.
Or put the Big Blue Cast Iron Arm for the bottom Rack,the 4 way Hydro Sweep for the bottom of the upper rack and the Stainless Arm from the bottom of the top rack on the top of the wash chamber, now that would be a machine that would probably clean a full load in 15 minutes.
You know about 4 months ago a friend of mine wanted me to pick her out a brand New Machine. I went to Sears. If you open the wall of machines, it seems like there are 3 types of racks made for every model. You can spot similarities in Cleaning System Design,Racking, Detergent Dispensors,etc. They all look so similar.

 

[re563]

A little bit more infor for ya all

Several months ago, I went appliance shopping with a good aquaitence of mine. We had hit several stores, and finally ended up at Lowes. When It came time to select a dishwasher, she said that she wanted a Bosch like mine. We were looking at the Bosch dishwashers, and next in line was the Kitchenaids. We both commented on how the door on the Bosch seemed much more flimpsy than on my Bosch. So, I guided her toward the Kitchenaid. Anyway, after the purchase I went to the Kitchenaid website and in an e-mail asked them what size motor the Kitchenaid had. Keep in mind that for years, they boosted about their dishwashers having a 1/2 horse power motor. The response I got back was it was a 1/5 horse power motor and that there was a second motor for draining, but I can't remember what size it was. VERY DISAPPOINTING to say the least.

 

[stevet]

Standard response!

Robert, I too asked Angel White on the KitchenAid Conversations forum about the horsepower ratings and she provided the same exact answer you received. I was amazed at how small the motor has become, and I even posted that on here and the response was very logical, though I forget who posted it:Basically,today's units are using smaller diameter supply tubing to the washarms and the arms themselves are or smaller diameters than on previous models from the Whirlpool factories. You can definitely see it if you take off the arms in the store.
Also, I spoke to one of A&E's dishwasher techs and he said that they were able to reduce the horsepower because the pumps were no longer having to power a drain impeller when it was running the wash. It does make sense that the additional drag takes its toll and additional power is needed to move that water around.
Remember that in the 15 thru 20 series,the drain impeller just pushed the water against a closed drain solenoid and in the 21 thru 23 series, it would be pumpimg water thru the fine mesh filter and depositing the soil into the soil chamber underneath it. Same goes for the power module designs though many of them were 1/3 hp. He aslo said with the separate drain pump, they were able to lower the hp and also save a bit of energy with the 40 watt drain motor.
It would be interesting to find out what the Bosch and other lines have in the way of pump hp.
I have also asked a number of people who have the newer style KA's how they clean and none have complained. I just re-asked my own cousin who has a 4 year old KUDI01 series machine and he said they have had no trouble what so ever and it cleans better than their KDS-21 ever did! From them, that says alot since they just pile the dishes in and barely clean them off beforehand!
I guess it all depends on what your expectations are and how well the racks and washing systems are designed. Some are better than others.