Heard this on the radio this morning... political correctness gone mad.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Tom & Jerry to be censored...
- Thread starter lavamat_jon
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I am "political incorrect"-this edit- butchering job on classic cartoons is ridiculous.Can't these folks take a joke?No sense of humor!!
lederstiefel1
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To me these people are non better than the radical Muslims!
Concrete in their minds!
Ralf from Germany
Concrete in their minds!
Ralf from Germany
Bugs Bunny cartoons have long be censored to meet todays PC morals. IIRC those shown cable television's "Cartoon Network" and as well as other media outlets have done this dirty work.
Blackface, certain ethnic character portraits which were accepted in the 1940's and 1950's "offend" today and or no one wants to be bothered with some whingeing parent claming in a lawsuit their child was damaged.
For instance, the little Buzzard's mother was supposed to be Italian ("hey what did you do to my poor lettle kid?"), which even at the time Warner Bros would advise when distributing the cartoon to areas with large Italian populations, that it *might* give offense.
There are LOTS of jokes and stuff about blacks in Bugs Bunny/WB cartoons, which of course is not show. In the cartoon where Elmer Fudd is a Mounted Police officer, and finally catches Bugs, he asks Bugs if the rabbit has any last requests before dying in front of a firing squad. Well Bugs ponders a bit, "hmm, any last requests... let me see" and breaks into "I wish I was in Dixie, hooray, hooray". To which the firing squad now start singing in (in blackface) "Camptown ladies sing this song, dooda, dooda", and Bugs turns around (also in blackface) and says "fantastic isn't it"? This comes at the end of the cartoon and was always cut out when I say it as a youth. It wasn't until I saw a program on Blacks as portrayed in the media that I saw the real ending.
What else? Porky Pig, supposedly is/was going to be removed because it offended people who stutter. Speedy Gonzoles, because it offened Mexicans/Hispanics. Peppy LePew for his womanising (sexual harrasment), and some group wanted all BB cartoons including Road Runner gone as they had "too much violence", including guns. Personally think anyone who does not know the differnece between a cartoon and real life needs help. Especially if they think they can jump off a cliff in the Grand Canyon and survive the fall. One thing will say is gun violence is much more of a problem than in the past. A child finding a gun might think when a person is hot, they do not get hurt since Bugs and Daffy are being shot all the time. Of course a good parent would/should have explained the difference between cartoons and real life.
L.
Blackface, certain ethnic character portraits which were accepted in the 1940's and 1950's "offend" today and or no one wants to be bothered with some whingeing parent claming in a lawsuit their child was damaged.
For instance, the little Buzzard's mother was supposed to be Italian ("hey what did you do to my poor lettle kid?"), which even at the time Warner Bros would advise when distributing the cartoon to areas with large Italian populations, that it *might* give offense.
There are LOTS of jokes and stuff about blacks in Bugs Bunny/WB cartoons, which of course is not show. In the cartoon where Elmer Fudd is a Mounted Police officer, and finally catches Bugs, he asks Bugs if the rabbit has any last requests before dying in front of a firing squad. Well Bugs ponders a bit, "hmm, any last requests... let me see" and breaks into "I wish I was in Dixie, hooray, hooray". To which the firing squad now start singing in (in blackface) "Camptown ladies sing this song, dooda, dooda", and Bugs turns around (also in blackface) and says "fantastic isn't it"? This comes at the end of the cartoon and was always cut out when I say it as a youth. It wasn't until I saw a program on Blacks as portrayed in the media that I saw the real ending.
What else? Porky Pig, supposedly is/was going to be removed because it offended people who stutter. Speedy Gonzoles, because it offened Mexicans/Hispanics. Peppy LePew for his womanising (sexual harrasment), and some group wanted all BB cartoons including Road Runner gone as they had "too much violence", including guns. Personally think anyone who does not know the differnece between a cartoon and real life needs help. Especially if they think they can jump off a cliff in the Grand Canyon and survive the fall. One thing will say is gun violence is much more of a problem than in the past. A child finding a gun might think when a person is hot, they do not get hurt since Bugs and Daffy are being shot all the time. Of course a good parent would/should have explained the difference between cartoons and real life.
L.
Tom and Jerry have allready been censored. The maid shown in many of the cartoons from the knees down used to be black with an ethnic voice. Now she's white and has a different voice.
Ken D.
Ken D.
brettsomers
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the black actress that voiced tom's (she called him *Thomas*) original owner did a FLAWLESS job. she was one of the best parts of the cartoons. believe she did lots of radio work too. here is a link to a site devoted to her charachter. and the sound files are HILARIOUS, but perhaps they can be offensive?
jasonl
New member
Funny, when I was a kid, I didn't really realize they were being racist, just a funny depiction of black people, just like if they showed a dopey white guy acting funny or stupid.
One of the GREATEST cartoons EVER is Tex Avery's Magical Maestro. The part where they make fun of blacks and Chinese people are gone. Why? Because no can take a joke anymore.
Sorry, I'm not racist, but I'm not PC either.
One of the GREATEST cartoons EVER is Tex Avery's Magical Maestro. The part where they make fun of blacks and Chinese people are gone. Why? Because no can take a joke anymore.
Sorry, I'm not racist, but I'm not PC either.
Laundress, your memory is impressive. You might want to take a look at Leonard Maltin's book: "Of Mice and Magic". In it, he describes a lot of WB cartoons that few of us have ever seen. One of the more offensive ones was a spoof of Disney's "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" titled: "Coal Black and de[sic] Seben Dwarves". If you ever saw this feature, you might agree that there was such a thing as going too far.
The little Buzzard's name was "Keeler" and I believe his mother was supposed to sound like a "Yenta" a la Fanny Brice.
The little Buzzard's name was "Keeler" and I believe his mother was supposed to sound like a "Yenta" a la Fanny Brice.
whirlcool
Well-known member
But what people don't understand is...
that when these cartoons were created, it was a sign of the times. If a carton was made in 1950, it will most likely show activities that were popular in that era. To change them or edit them out would be "revisionist" history. There is too much of that going around already.
People should just tell their kids, "That was then, but this is now".
I strongly believe that films and cartoons of the past should be preserved as they were made, rather than be censored. The next thing we will see is political messages being put in these works of art. GRRRR!
that when these cartoons were created, it was a sign of the times. If a carton was made in 1950, it will most likely show activities that were popular in that era. To change them or edit them out would be "revisionist" history. There is too much of that going around already.
People should just tell their kids, "That was then, but this is now".
I strongly believe that films and cartoons of the past should be preserved as they were made, rather than be censored. The next thing we will see is political messages being put in these works of art. GRRRR!
jasonl
New member
Exactly. But like I said, even when I was small, seeing those "blackface" gags and hearing mammy's voice didn't make me want to hate black people. To a 8 or 9 year old, it's just funny, no racial statement at all.
It IS unfortunate that alot of that stuff was made to make fun of people of different ethnicities, but being that it was the culture back then. Just laugh and leave it be.
One thing that has made me angry was I read that some of the original first season episodes of Beavis and Butthead (the ones where they say FIRE FIRE FIRE and do some really crazy/illegal things) are GONE. Unless you recorded it back then, you can't buy it on DVD. That's really a shame because that's what made B&B so damn funny was the edgy stuff.
Of course, Ren & Stimpy has been under the knife since day one as well. I'm amazed Animaniacs never got hacked for their hijinx.
LEAVE THE DAMN CARTOONS ALONE! Let them be whatever they were meant to be and nothing else. Leave in the slapstick violence and bring back Mammy!
It IS unfortunate that alot of that stuff was made to make fun of people of different ethnicities, but being that it was the culture back then. Just laugh and leave it be.
One thing that has made me angry was I read that some of the original first season episodes of Beavis and Butthead (the ones where they say FIRE FIRE FIRE and do some really crazy/illegal things) are GONE. Unless you recorded it back then, you can't buy it on DVD. That's really a shame because that's what made B&B so damn funny was the edgy stuff.
Of course, Ren & Stimpy has been under the knife since day one as well. I'm amazed Animaniacs never got hacked for their hijinx.
LEAVE THE DAMN CARTOONS ALONE! Let them be whatever they were meant to be and nothing else. Leave in the slapstick violence and bring back Mammy!
westytoploader
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Gone mad is an understatement, more like insanely stupid (or vice versa). How low can these idiots possibly go? I used to watch a lot of Tom & Jerry on CN and saw several scenes of Tom lighting up cigarettes, and some Warner Bros. cartoons with above-mentioned "blackface" scenes. I also remember in Tex Avery's Magical Maestro where they made fun of Indians as well. For me it was hilarious. I guess they want us to become even more oppressed...
I'm SICK of political correctness and censorship in society in general, especially the downright twisted way it is used. Sure, cut a few smoking scenes in Tom & Jerry, but let a show like South Park (watch one episode and find out) remain untouched? That doesn't make ANY sense AT ALL.
For me, PC is just another synonym for BS.
--Austin
I'm SICK of political correctness and censorship in society in general, especially the downright twisted way it is used. Sure, cut a few smoking scenes in Tom & Jerry, but let a show like South Park (watch one episode and find out) remain untouched? That doesn't make ANY sense AT ALL.
For me, PC is just another synonym for BS.
--Austin
jasonl
New member
And have ALL those rap/hip-hop and modern rock records have the F word between every word in the lyrics and that's ok. DUH
What's more morally offensive? A rapper rapping about gang violence, drugs, sex, and every profane word known to man OR Tom sticking his head in a bucket and when the TNT goes off he has a "blackface"? Hmmmm....
What's more morally offensive? A rapper rapping about gang violence, drugs, sex, and every profane word known to man OR Tom sticking his head in a bucket and when the TNT goes off he has a "blackface"? Hmmmm....
The networks that show these cartoons are not being forced to "censor" anything - unless Warner Brothers (or whoever the owner of the cartoons are) has specified that these cartoons be shown in their modified format. In that case, since it's their property, they can do what they want with it.
If the networks are making the modifications themselves, they are doing it with the owner's consent. There was a recent supreme court decision that addressed a similar issue (whether a third-party film distribution company could re-edit movies to take out sex, violence and obscenity), and the court ruled that companies can't change content without the owner's consent. The same principle applies here.
Most likely they are doing this because they don't want to be associated with a product that some may consider racist. They do this because of market forces: They make their money on advertising and, in the case of cable, subscriptions. They don't want their advertisers pulling the plug because of controversial material, and they don't want to lose their slot in cable franchises.
Musicians, on the other hand, load their music down with the things they do because it sells. Musicians don't have to worry nearly as much about advertisers, and the only place they are really seen on TV is in venues like MTV that just bleeps out the naughty bits (if they even do that anymore. I haven't watched MTV in years)
Basically, the government only censors the use of the seven dirty words, and there only on broadcast signals. They also do some regulation in terms of broadcasters inciting violence, but that is more directed at threats against politicians and things like that.
In short, political correctness is a function of the free market, and the natural tendency of the corporation to not alienate the consumer.
I tend to agree these works should not modified. Even a film as blatantly offensive as "Birth of a Nation" is still a benchmark in American Cinema, and should be preserved as such. And these cartoons are nowhere near as intentionally racist as that film. They are, as was pointed out above, more a product of their time than anything else. But that is a very nuanced argument, and outside of academic circles, you are going to find very little popular support for it.
The good news is that I believe you can still get these cartoons in their original state. I know you could back in the laser disc days, because we sold them at an educational film distribution company that I used to work for. Also, they show up in the artsy movie theatres quite frequently.
If the networks are making the modifications themselves, they are doing it with the owner's consent. There was a recent supreme court decision that addressed a similar issue (whether a third-party film distribution company could re-edit movies to take out sex, violence and obscenity), and the court ruled that companies can't change content without the owner's consent. The same principle applies here.
Most likely they are doing this because they don't want to be associated with a product that some may consider racist. They do this because of market forces: They make their money on advertising and, in the case of cable, subscriptions. They don't want their advertisers pulling the plug because of controversial material, and they don't want to lose their slot in cable franchises.
Musicians, on the other hand, load their music down with the things they do because it sells. Musicians don't have to worry nearly as much about advertisers, and the only place they are really seen on TV is in venues like MTV that just bleeps out the naughty bits (if they even do that anymore. I haven't watched MTV in years)
Basically, the government only censors the use of the seven dirty words, and there only on broadcast signals. They also do some regulation in terms of broadcasters inciting violence, but that is more directed at threats against politicians and things like that.
In short, political correctness is a function of the free market, and the natural tendency of the corporation to not alienate the consumer.
I tend to agree these works should not modified. Even a film as blatantly offensive as "Birth of a Nation" is still a benchmark in American Cinema, and should be preserved as such. And these cartoons are nowhere near as intentionally racist as that film. They are, as was pointed out above, more a product of their time than anything else. But that is a very nuanced argument, and outside of academic circles, you are going to find very little popular support for it.
The good news is that I believe you can still get these cartoons in their original state. I know you could back in the laser disc days, because we sold them at an educational film distribution company that I used to work for. Also, they show up in the artsy movie theatres quite frequently.
jasonl
New member
I know you could get the Tex Avery stuff on LD unedited but I don't know about DVD.
"Coal Black an de Sebben Dwarfs" is a masterpiece of animation. The voices were supplied by black actors, and furthermore how many cartoons showed blacks doing their part in the war effort?
I believe Coal Black was originally banned in the 60s because it condones killing Japs, not because Prince 'Chawmin' has dice for teeth. Also, I bet Disney didn't care for it, since it's a parody of one of their most successful films.
On the other hand, Walter Lantz (of Woody Woodpecker fame) made some terribly racist cartoons in the 40s that should remain buried. They have no redeeming value and really arent that funny anyway (examples: Cow Cow Boogie, Scrub Me Mama).
Much humor is based on stereotypes, and I don't see short white hunters up in arms over Elmer Fudd.
I have a nice 16mm print of Coal Black, in case any members visit the Haledon NJ area and want to see it in all it's glory. The animation is so fast that the compression on youtube does it no justice.
Ken
I believe Coal Black was originally banned in the 60s because it condones killing Japs, not because Prince 'Chawmin' has dice for teeth. Also, I bet Disney didn't care for it, since it's a parody of one of their most successful films.
On the other hand, Walter Lantz (of Woody Woodpecker fame) made some terribly racist cartoons in the 40s that should remain buried. They have no redeeming value and really arent that funny anyway (examples: Cow Cow Boogie, Scrub Me Mama).
Much humor is based on stereotypes, and I don't see short white hunters up in arms over Elmer Fudd.
I have a nice 16mm print of Coal Black, in case any members visit the Haledon NJ area and want to see it in all it's glory. The animation is so fast that the compression on youtube does it no justice.
Ken
Cartoon Carving....
I heard about the Tom and Jerry fiasco this a.m. on the tv. What blather! I watched Tom and Jerry as a child, and they had about as much influence on me smoking as the Three Stooges had on me poking my sister's eyes out!! Just because my daughter watches Spongebob Squarepants doesn't mean that she is going to walk around crossing her eyes and giggle like an idiot. It is pure, silly, unadulterated slapstick period!
The PC Police have taken all of the fun out of being a kid. Thanks to them, children can no longer play "Tag" at school (it lowers self-esteem), the Christmas Holiday is referred to as "Winter Holiday" (we don't want to make those that don't celebrate feel uncomfortable), and even one of my favourite candy gluts, Halloween has been taken out of schools (it is Satanic and the candy leads to obesity). When will it stop?
As to political correctness being a function of the free market; hardly. Thanks to the "marketing" efforts of entities like the ACLU, PETA, and their legions of attorneys, future generations will never enjoy many of the things we did as children.
I heard about the Tom and Jerry fiasco this a.m. on the tv. What blather! I watched Tom and Jerry as a child, and they had about as much influence on me smoking as the Three Stooges had on me poking my sister's eyes out!! Just because my daughter watches Spongebob Squarepants doesn't mean that she is going to walk around crossing her eyes and giggle like an idiot. It is pure, silly, unadulterated slapstick period!
The PC Police have taken all of the fun out of being a kid. Thanks to them, children can no longer play "Tag" at school (it lowers self-esteem), the Christmas Holiday is referred to as "Winter Holiday" (we don't want to make those that don't celebrate feel uncomfortable), and even one of my favourite candy gluts, Halloween has been taken out of schools (it is Satanic and the candy leads to obesity). When will it stop?
As to political correctness being a function of the free market; hardly. Thanks to the "marketing" efforts of entities like the ACLU, PETA, and their legions of attorneys, future generations will never enjoy many of the things we did as children.
kevinpreston8
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Retromom
I agree. This is why my kids attend private school. Sure it costs. But, they celebrate Halloween in costumes. They don't have wierdos coming in and showing the junior high kids how to put on condoms. The history books are not revisionist, with more pages on Marilyn Monroe than for John Adams. I guess my school has not heard about the devil worshipping component. The school does call it winter break, but everyone talks about Christmas.
During Christmas, I say "Merry Christmas" to everyone. I don't mean to offent a Jewish person or a Muslim person or the ACLU lawyers. But if someone wants to take offense, that's their problem, not mine. People that have their head on straight realize you are wishing them a happy holiday. I take no offensive someone saying Happy Hanukkah to me either. No one is trying to force their religion or lifestyle on anyone else, it's just the groups you mentioned trying to change the great things from our past.
If I was super rich, I would reopen Santa's Village, even if it meant operating it at a loss. Christmastime year around, it does not get better than that!
I agree. This is why my kids attend private school. Sure it costs. But, they celebrate Halloween in costumes. They don't have wierdos coming in and showing the junior high kids how to put on condoms. The history books are not revisionist, with more pages on Marilyn Monroe than for John Adams. I guess my school has not heard about the devil worshipping component. The school does call it winter break, but everyone talks about Christmas.
During Christmas, I say "Merry Christmas" to everyone. I don't mean to offent a Jewish person or a Muslim person or the ACLU lawyers. But if someone wants to take offense, that's their problem, not mine. People that have their head on straight realize you are wishing them a happy holiday. I take no offensive someone saying Happy Hanukkah to me either. No one is trying to force their religion or lifestyle on anyone else, it's just the groups you mentioned trying to change the great things from our past.
If I was super rich, I would reopen Santa's Village, even if it meant operating it at a loss. Christmastime year around, it does not get better than that!
Venus, you prove my point: The special interest groups (who are usually groups like the American Family Association and the Parents Television Council, as opposed to the ACLU who have nothing to do with TV and has supported some pretty non-PC causes through the years) are the ones that launch the campaigns that freak out the advertisers that make the networks antsy. Like it or not, that's the free market reacting to a perceived threat. It has virtually nothing to do with lawsuits - you can't prove financial damages on media exposure, and that's what lawyers are interested in - but everything to do with fear of public perception and/or boycotts.
Here's an example: When I first started working for the company I work for we had an illustrator on our creative team. He came up with a cute little cartoon squirrel that we used to point out sale items on the website.
Marketing decided that we needed to have a focus group to evaluate usability, so we got a bunch of dimwits together with the promise of $50 each and a club sandwich (I participate in focus groups quite often, so I feel comfortable in calling us participants dimwits ;-)
Well, one woman HATED the squirrl. Just hated him, and made a huge stink about him. Not for any reason that she could coherently express - she just didn't like him. So our marketing department decided that "average consumers" didn't like the squirrel and pulled him from all our pages. It's that kind of mentality that makes our products mediocre, our TV boring and drives the banal edge of "political correctness".
The sad thing is that since we have removed the ownership restrictions on media outlets and allowed even more consolidation, this sort of corporate groupthink will only grow worse. The larger the corporation, the less likely they are to take any chances, and to be so far removed from their customers that they fear special interest groups, or rely on things like focus groups.
Here's an example: When I first started working for the company I work for we had an illustrator on our creative team. He came up with a cute little cartoon squirrel that we used to point out sale items on the website.
Marketing decided that we needed to have a focus group to evaluate usability, so we got a bunch of dimwits together with the promise of $50 each and a club sandwich (I participate in focus groups quite often, so I feel comfortable in calling us participants dimwits ;-)
Well, one woman HATED the squirrl. Just hated him, and made a huge stink about him. Not for any reason that she could coherently express - she just didn't like him. So our marketing department decided that "average consumers" didn't like the squirrel and pulled him from all our pages. It's that kind of mentality that makes our products mediocre, our TV boring and drives the banal edge of "political correctness".
The sad thing is that since we have removed the ownership restrictions on media outlets and allowed even more consolidation, this sort of corporate groupthink will only grow worse. The larger the corporation, the less likely they are to take any chances, and to be so far removed from their customers that they fear special interest groups, or rely on things like focus groups.
If It Is Totally Non-PC Cartoons You Want
Try Watching "The Oblongs".
Try Watching "The Oblongs".
