UK article about washing at low temps

[pierreandreply4]

proof of a fl washer with no water heater

Here is a proof of a washer with no water heater have a look at this picture of my daily driver this is my actual set and the washer do not have a water heater and even if it did it would not be active. and the only reason you see it on the hot water temp is because i am washing a pet bed usaly its set on cold water wash

 

[pierreandreply4]

oh and by the way aqua cycle never say never

by the way aqua cycle never say never as you might never know top loading washers might make a come back in europe one day and there is also something you need to know the canadian market for appliance is not the same and aspecaly in the part of canada i live in witch is the province of quebec washing machines manufacturer can consider them selves lucky that in my province they accept that washer dryer control panel are printed in english because the provincial goverment in the part of canada i live in could easly force washing machines manufacter to print washers and dryers control panel in french as well as english like the instruction manuel. that are printed in both english and french.

 

[dj-gabriele]

@Pierre

I've never seen any other as stubborn as you!
You've been saying the same things for ages, it's like bumping in a rubber wall!
I think your clothes reek in germs and hidden dirt.
The dreamspace machines, the European version of the duets, with inbuilt heater as standard, are classed as ugly, poor performers and repair prone, so I can't believe they can manage to clean a load in cold water and with American cycle times and detergent. A dumbed down machine with a dumbed down cycle and detergent will get worse results for sure!
You're right when you say you want to go back to a top loader!
As much as wasteful they are, they will sure outperform your machines.

But mind, get a really functioning front loader and I mean something coming from "this side of the pond" and see the difference for yourself. You'll have blinding white clean stuff and colours.

But stop this, I can't stand anymore of your complaining about how you wash!

 

[ronhic]

Chris...

..without trying to add fuel to the heater or no heater debate, Australian made Hoover front loaders from the mid 1970's until the end of production in the late 1990's were available without a heater. Hoover Australia used to market the same basic machine as 2 distinct models.

 

From the early Zodiac's through to the last of the Electra's (not sure about the 1100F) any model ending in a '5' had a heater.....Electra 550 (without) or 555 (with). They used to charge around 15% more for a heater model. On the Electra series, you could choose to engage the heater or not....These machines only washed at cold, warm or hot. That is - cold intake, mixed or hot intake only. On heater models you could use as above or engage the heater on a warm or hot cycle and it would hold 40c or hold 60c depending.

 

Not many were sold with heaters.....and I have to admit, I owned one without. When you have a total cycle time of 55 minutes and a wash component of 21 minutes maximum, there isn't really a great deal of time for the water to get cold. Plus, these were 'old style' Hoovers that filled to 2/5 up the door, so there really was a large volume of water doing the work....

 

Still, I completely agree with you from the modern perspective. A cold connect front loader, or dual connection if available, with a heater is a much better machine when the low water levels are taken into account - it can maintain temperatures. But then, we do have the luxury of living in a country with 220-240v standard electrical outlets too.....

 

[aquacycle]

Ah, thanks for the clarification on the heaters, Chris.

And I imagine the difference with the deep fill machines and todays machines would make a huge difference on performance. And I can only imagine that if one were to wash in cold water, you would have to add in a heck of a lot of additional anti-bacterial agents to make up for the lack of heat. And without using bleach, whites would go grey incredibly quickly.

I'll be sticking to 40 and 60 washes for certain.

dj-gabriele - AMEN! That is all.

 

[rapunzel]

'washing at a higher temperature eliminates the extra co

If you are washing under 60 degrees centigrade and you are really worried about germs you will still have to add an anti-bacterial agent, even in a front loader. A lot of my clothes aren't suited to hot water washing, let alone boiling and I am still here and healthy.

It seems to me that some of our Euro friends are of the belief that they have the scoop on clean laundry. Well, folks enjoy wallowing in your superior knowledge and let us peasants, with our inferior machines and laundry techniques, live with our stained, smelly, germ-laden rags.

 

[ronhic]

Folks

This really needs to stop.

 

There is a global move to lower temperature washing for multiple reasons:

 

- detergents have the potential to be better than they used to be

- it is more environmentally sound

- unless someone is actually ill, there appears little point in 'hot' washing

- many modern machines, with longer cycle times do a much better job

- high efficiency machines without heaters may barely get any 'hot' water from the tank into the wash cycle.

 

The list goes one.

 

Taking 2 recent reviews on laundry detergents, there appears to be little in it.

 

When Choice tests washing machines, they do so at stated capacity and at 20c, which is 'cold' or, in some country's, 'controlled cold'. They test detergents at 20c, and whilst I can't confirm the load statistics, it isn't unreasonable to assume they do so at full capacity too. Which? in the UK, doesn't state if they test at 30c or 40c, but they do measure for redeposit of undisolved solids when washed at 30c.....given the move to lower temperature washing, it is reasonable to assume that this is the actual wash temperature. However, it may also be 40c. Which? also only tests at 'test swatches + 3kg' with a dose of detergent for a 'normally soiled load'. Given the additional spare room in the drum with such a small load, it does technically increase the mechanical action of the wash and SHOULD increase the overall cleaning power.

 

Given this information, it is interesting to see that the top 8 front load powders tested in Australia ALL either equalled or out performed the top 2 powders that were tested by Which? - Ariel with Actilift and Persil Bio.

 

At 81% or better overall score, these are all very effective products that generally don't need anything to help them get clothes clean...certainly not in this house anyway.

 

So, where am I going with this?

 

Basically, to get a clean wash in a European style front load machine with longer rather than shorter cycles, you get very clean clothes that aren't minging on cooler temperatures with one of the top performing powdered detergents.

 

You don't need to do anything else.

 

Of course, much depends on just how soiled a persons wash is, how full they fill the machine, the cycle they choose and the actual performance of the machine itself. As we all know, there can be vast differences in overall performance from machine to machine.

 

The kicker to all of this is that hot water washes WILL remove more soiling than cooler cycles with the difference between 60c and cool 20c about 6%. This is visible - just - on specially soiled swatches where you know where the stains are and what they consist of.

 

The interesting thing is that neither testing institute actually washes fabrics that have had a lovely little coat of fabric softener added to them.....given the additional work that this could cause a detergent to do from a chemical point of view, it may be one of the bigger problems with washing at low temperatures.....

 

I think many of us accept that use of liquid detergent and fabric conditioner consistently in low temperature wash environments does cause problems in all sorts of machines - mould, scrud and contributes to general odour issues.

 

Given this, I think it would be a very interesting scenario to have a detergent efficiency and effectiveness test on fabrics that have had conditioner used with them.....

 

[launderess]

To My Mind The Best Way To Check The Health

Of one's front loading washer is to drain the bilge water then remove and examine the lint filter/pump area.

If the things are fouled with mould and gunk a change in one's laundry habits is in order. Either one using too little detergent to do the job, too much of the wrong type of detergent and or rinsing too little. The rotting of bilge water is mainly due to organic matter (and this includes heavy fabric softener use in the final rinse)in the water which provides food for *things* to grow.

The odd boil washing may or may not clear this area because the super hot water does not reach this area during the wash cycle (most European and many Amercian front loaders have various systems designed to save laundry products that seal off the sump as the washer fills) and many also add cold water before draining very hot water to protect plumbing.

On the matter of wash temperature:

For most intents and purposes long as one observes the four main rules of good laundry practice it matters not if one washes at 85F or 200F. If boiling your wash is up your street; go ahead, knock yourself out. However there is no denying high temperature washing is hard on textiles. Every laundry manual one has published from 1900 through 1950's advises the same; once automatic or even semi automatic washing machines came in boiling as routine part of laundering went out.

The main sanitising of laundry by hot or warm water comes from increasing the detergency action of soap or whatever cleanser one is using to shift soils and the biofilm from laundry. The result is that enough *germs* are dislodged from the wash, suspeneded in the water and sent down the drain. Alive but none the less still away from one's textiles. While boiling will increase this effect high temperature washing alone does not kill all germs,viruses, moulds and such. Like all living things some of these creatures are more hardy than others and survive a wide variety of conditions. E. Coli is probably one of the easiest but there are plently more that would take temps of >180F for nearly or over an hour to kill off, and even then...

As for *germs* growing inside one's washer; what of it? I've said again and again if anyone here did the standard microbiology or bacteriology class test to swab and culture everyday things one comes into contact with, upon seeing the results you'd never feel safe in your own skin again. Am willing to bet there is more growing on the toilet seat, bathroom taps, handle used to flush toilet and bathroom door knob than you'd ever find in a washing machine. Add to this list cell phones, kitchen taps, computer keyboards and mouse and the fun really begins. This are rather more interesting in that given the *antibacterial* craze in the United States the population on average has some of the lowest proper handwashing post loo use in the western world.

 

[thomasortega]

Domb down wash times, dumb down detergents, etc...
Something to think about...

Here most of the washer don't have internal heaters and/ or hot fills. Some models even can't stand hot water in the tub as it would ativate the thermal clutch and start to spin instead of agitate...

But the wash cycles are LOOOOOONG!

The cheapest machine we have at Elux is a top loader all made of plastic, so cheap that it doesn't even have the outer tub (the cabinet is the tub), but it washes for more than 1 hour (30 minutes of agitation intermited with the same time of soak)
Cold water only, etc, etc, etc... But... clothes ome out sparkling clean and smelling great.

Will it kill more bacteria? Maybe yes, maybe not but... who cares? As soon as the final spin finishes, the load will be hung on a line, maybe under the sun, maybe not. and it can be contaminated again.

Anyway, we're normal humans, not a statue made of sugar. If we start this germ paranoia, soon we will start living inside an hermetic bubble. We wouldn't shake hands hug or kiss (as germs could be transfered) we wouldn't even eat because even the safest and well made foods still have some germs..

Wait, we would have to take long baths with LCB because humans normally have billions of microorganisms on the skin.

I strongly believe good sense is the best thing. Hot washes can AND DO kill more germs, it's a fact. If i have someone sick at home, of course i'd wash using the hottest temperature the fabric can stand.

But on normal washes, why do that if i can get my clothes clean? Of course, if i notice smelly clothes, it means my washing procedures are failing and I have to check what's going on to avoid the same results in the future. If the problem is water temperature, it's obvious i'm going to increase the temperature on the next washes. but nobody needs to be paranoid about temperature and turn our washing machines into ice cream makers or pyrolitic washers.

But if everything comes out clean, why spend more? why increase my environmental impact?

Also, if i'm going to wash a super delicate item like a 100% wool blouse, of course i'd never do a boil wash, otherwise it could damage it.

The best advice i can do is: try to use the lowest temperature that gives good results with your washer, your detergent and your clothes. If you can get excellent results with almost freezing water, great! The environment will love it. If you need to increase the temperature until you find the best balance, ok too. but i'm sure nobody really needs to strictly wash everything at boiling temperatures. This is exagerated, wate energy, waste of products, waste of money and bigger impact.

Also, hospital laundry is not household laundry. there are two completelly different worlds. Of course, in that situation, more is better so, more temperature, more detergent, more time, more chemicals because the clothes are more contaminated than a regular T-shirt and all the knowledge and technology available should be used to prevent contamination and cross contamination.