Unclassified Army Western Electric Phone fun!!!!

[washernoob]

Look what I found!!!!

An old Western Electric phone!
I Love my grandpa! Its amazing what I find in his 1915 mansion!

He has a "collection" so to speak of old telephones in his basement. He uses a 1940s Bell wall phone in his work shop all the time. He has various dial phones around as well.

Well we got into a discussion whilst pouring hot tar into the cracks on his driveway today. We were talking about electronics, and we drifted to early phones. rotary phones to be exact.
___
He talked about when he worked for TWAs mantinence field, late nights all the workers wanted to call their lady friends to talk, but the boss locked the dials on the phone. My grandpa used to "hack" the phones. Cant remember the term, but what you do is tap in the phone number, morse code style.

I was so fascinated by it that he showed me how it works on his Bell. I asked if I could have one of his old rotary phones. And of course he said yes!

I dug out the one that appealed to me the most. This is an old Western Electric 500 series.

I brought it home and cleaned it up. And to my surprise I discovered something!

Its a US army issue phone! Stamped on the top of the housing it clearly states US Army.

And I ripped off the old sticker on the front of the old area code. And under it it reads... Oh I was so thrilled!---

Fire
95
6452
Unclassified
Only
AE Label 45 (?)
2 Nov 54 (or 64?)

I still have some tape gunk to remove on the body and badge. The phone has no scratches on it!

 

[washernoob]

Cord

The old replacement RJ11 type jack. My grandpa has some adaptors that he is going to find so I can use it.

 

[washernoob]

Base

Here is the base.

Some paint on it it appears. Some magic eraser will remove that.

 

[washernoob]

Its a model
GA-51859

only info I can find about it-

Single line with Military markings on case: Signal Corps US Army, Telephone Set TA236/FT, Western Electric. (No Bell System markings.)

More pics soon.

 

[washernoob]

Needs a good thorough cleaning through. But that will come later.

 

[washernoob]

Some more pics.

 

[washernoob]

Whoops

Thats obviously not an Rj11 jack. I dont know what I was thinking when I typed that. It should read, old 4 pin style jack.

It was surprisingly extremely clean on the inside. Didn't do anything at all to it. This is how it came!

The dial still needs to be cleaned. Its got lots of old sticker gunk on it. Its hard to remove!

 

[washernoob]

Label

Here is the label that was under that sticker.

 

[bugsyjones]

Love me some rotarys

I've got a few around the house. They all work too!

My oldest is an Automatic Electric model 40. Real art deco looking. It's been restored.

I have two western electrics with the clear fingerwheel. A red and a pink. The pink has the four prong plug. I bought a modular adapter for it.

~Tim

 

[bugsyjones]

The red one

~Tim

 

[washernoob]

Wow!

that is cool! Mmhmm. I can see it now. A kitchen of pink appliances, with a prompt fitting pink Western Electric!

I am going to order an adaptor from oldphoneworks.com

Great site. Lovely old restored phones too.

I need to find me a 30s/40s art deco WE phone. Model 302. A bit more artistic in design than the 500 style, but both are great classic standard phones.

http://www.oldphoneworks.com/antique-phones/

 

[bugsyjones]

The Automatic Electric

model 40. Not the best picture....

~Tim

 

[rp2813]

Signal Corps sets were built to higher standards than the average model 500 phone. I believe the term used is "climatized" in order to withstand humid environments.

Your set has components that indicate 1964 as opposed to 1954, such as the network block and clear fingerwheel on the dial, and clear switch hook buttons. All components should have a date. Check the ringer, the dial (on the back) and network block (on the side) on the chassis for dates. The case should have a two-digit year of manufacture embossed inside above the dial opening. Handset will either be stamped or embossed, usually inside the receiver end. If you unscrew the caps, both the receiver and transmitter elements should also be dated. The caps themselves may or may not be. The receiver looks like it could be bakelite rather than plastic, which is a plus, but the caps appear to be plastic.

I would be very conservative about cleaning the bottom. You don't want to remove any of the information along with the paint. I don't think the GA-51859 is a model number. In collector circles, it's just a Signal Corps 500. While there are no "Bell System" markings, "Western Electric" means the same thing. It wasn't until much later that "Bell System" started appearing on the case and handset, but the manufacturer was still Western Electric, which was owned by the Bell System.

And yes, if you were really good, you could make a call using the switch hook buttons to reproduce the pulsing speed of the dial mechanism. I was never able to get the hang of it. The most I could manage was dialing the Time of Day recording using the three-character prefix and then depressing the switch hook button four times.

All in all, a very nice phone and it should clean up nicely. No abrasives! I presume your grandfather can help you hook it up and make it ring, but if you need additional advice, feel free to e-mail me directly. These phones always work, but sometimes the network connections are different for sets that operated off a PBX (and I suspect yours did) as compared to just a single line residential application. If you don't get dial tone with it wired as is, it's probably just a matter of moving a wire or two onto a different terminal. Let me know if I can help.

Ralph

 

[lordkenmore]

Nice phones everyone!

A house I lived in a few months ago still had an old dial telephone in the basement, by the washer. It seems to me it was a "clear dial" type, and certainly had a "newer" vintage color--avocado. Too bad I didn't have an avocado washer to go along with it. I never tried the phone. I assume it worked--it was still wired in--but the land line was disconnected.

I have thought from time to time I'd like to have an old phone in service. I like how solidly they were made. But, practically, I'm not sure I'd ever go back to a landline. At least where I live now, with my current phone patterns. It's cheaper using a cell phone, and cable Internet (even without cable TV). Plus, no one I know likes the company providing landline service where I live.

What would be nice is an adapter that allows a rotary dial phone to work on cell service.

 

[paulg]

Count me in.

I keep a couple wired Western Electrics running. I firmly believe in keeping a phone working that doesn't rely on house power. Unfortunately they are of boring colors of black or tan.
The guest room phone has the adjustable volume feature in the handset which I like although I am not hearing-impaired.
I also have a Stromberg-Carlson rebuilt wall phone from about 1957. It was my main phone in the old house. It was funny how people would talk to me on the phone and remark that I sounded so clear!

 

[Sanisonic]

GA5-1859

This almost sounded like it could have been the phone number from back at the time that this phone was made. But I don't think they stamped the phone number on the bottom of the phone. Maybe just a serial number?

 

[washernoob]

GA 51859

When I typed that number into google, I came up with a great site that told details about that number. It seems like it is a model number. Thats where I got that info that indicated "no bell systems markings"

Thank you all so much for the information! Ralph, I will put your knowledge to good use! I am really thrilled of this phone and cant wait to get it hooked up! Ill keep everyone informed.

 

[gansky1]

Great phone, Brandon, you'll love the ringing sounds!

I love my Western Electric phones. My step-dad worked at the W.E. Wire plant here in Omaha for 36 years so we have a great respect for these old "sets". A year or so ago, I went to an estate sale of a former Northwestern Bell technician. The basement was loaded with goodies and I stocked up. One of the best things was this wall set. Pictured pre-cleaning Still in the box and with a spare NIB replacement handset and cord, I grabbed it along with the matching desk model (same color). When Fred N. was here visiting, he saw this phone in the basement and just about fell over. "This has to be upstairs!! Do know what this is worth??" Well, I moved it up to the kitchen now and it proudly jingles out each incoming call as it should. I also have a small collection of Trimlines, Decorator box-phones and a couple of 500 series desk sets. Along with the beautiful phones at that sale as a huge box full of parts, parts & parts - all new in their packages.

 

[cadman]

Nice score!

Just what is it I'm seeing in your 4th photo that looks like a black switch under the hand grip?

I see your set was configured for a separate ringer ckt. If you want it to ring on today's lines, you can either bridge the yellow and green wires in the 4-pin connector, or move the black 'cloth' wire (connected to the yellow wire leading out) one set of screws over so it's on the same ckt as the green wire leading out.

 

[nashmaytagbear]

Great find!

I have several vintage 50's and 60's phones myself. Most of them are stored away in boxes because I don't have a place to put them out for display. But we use some of them around the house which drives my partner crazy because of the rotary dials.

 

[rp2813]

I saw that thing that looks like a switch but can't remember what those are about. I'm going to do some checking on that.

Also, the clear fingerwheels can be removed easily with a stick pin or a small paperclip. I can provide instructions if anyone is interested in covering up the fastening mechanism with a home-made number card.

Ralph

 

[washernoob]

Thanks for sharing all!

Yes I got to see that gorgeous phone of Greg's in person! It really is so beautiful. And I love the ringing.

The switch in the back is the only thing that I am not sure is original or not. Its a mechanism to turn off the ringer. But the cords for the ringer (yellow and black) are not even connected into the 4-pin outlet. So I have no idea why the switch is there anyways.

Greg, I was wondering where you got your 4 pin outlet adapter for the modern phone plugs? Did you have to order it or would maybe radio shack or something have it? I want to order from that phone site, but if I can get it local, faster, I would do that.

Thanks!

PS. I will try and remove the clear wheel to clean it up, now that I know how to.

 

[lordkenmore]

It wouldn't hurt to try finding that adapter locally. It seems to me that RadioShack once had adapters like that. Other possibilities include small, older hardware stores, etc. I once found a long-since unobtainable connector in a small TV repair shop.

 

[supersuds]

Er, is the 500 considered old? My cordless phone battery died last week so I hauled out the reconditioned 500 I bought in 1985-ish. Still works perfectly.

I'm way over the hill! Lol.

Lovely wall set, Greg!

 

[washernoob]

Mine is a 1963 I found out.

 

[rp2813]

I agree that you'll not find the 4-prong-to-modular adapter anywhere locally, unless you know of an ancient hardware store with tons of NOS stuff. I found two of this type of adapter at such as store about a year ago. They had been hanging on a hook for probably 30 years and still had a rotary phone depicted on the hanger card.

If you haven't already joined, you might want to check out the link below for the Classic Rotary Phones site. The discussion forums contain all the information you could possibly need. I have posted a question there about the on/off switch under the cradle. As for ringer wires, it only takes one pair of wires to make a phone work and ring. Changing termination points on the network block for the ringer wires is how you enable or disable the ringer.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php

 

[cadman]

Some sets, like yours, were setup to power the ringer through the third yellow wire. This allowed a party line configuration for the talk ckt but separate ringer ckts. This was common as late as the early 80's in rural areas. To get yours to ring you'll notice the black wire from the ringer connects to a 2-screw terminal where the yellow cord wire lands. Move that black wire over one screw-set so it connects to the green cord wire. L2 if memory serves.

Re those adapters, I remember seeing them still on store shelves in recent years. Unless you're dealing with an original color coordinated 4 prong WE plug that you want to stay original, it might make sense to pick up a modular plug with screw terminals on the back and re-wire. Much easier to come by, too!

 

[rp2813]

Yes, a "wall mount" modular jack has a clean back and is easy to wire. Then you simply connect the wall mount jack on the end of your line cord to to the live RJ11 or whatever receptacle, via your standard modular line cord.

 

[circlew]

At the present time I have a small collection of telephones. The one I use on a day-to-day basis is a WE 2500 that has a date of 6-82 on the base; I bought it used in '97. I also have a Comdial 2830 10 button multi-line phone, a WE 2554 wall model, a PacTel Trimline (all bought new) and my oldest is an Automatic Electric AE50 wall phone with dial blank. I found it in the sub-basement of the old Pogue's dept. store in downtown Cincinnati when they had the liquidation sale after it closed; didn't pay much for it. Sorry no pics as except for the 2500 they are boxed up in storage. These phones were made to last, and I would expect them to outlast 25 or more cell or cordless phones.

 

[whirlcool]

We had some old phones that were rotary, but when we moved to a different state they stopped working. What is wrong is that when you dial, you don't hear any "clicks" as the dial turns.

A telephone guy I talked to years ago said I have to swap two wires on the junction block to make them work properly. But I forgot which two he was talking about.

On my Dual website I periodically get e-mails from people who have been given turntables and record collections. They can't figure out how to play the records. So based on this observation, I wonder how many people are out there today that wouldn't know how to make a call with a rotary phone!