Off topic
Dear
What happened with that over scented Persil! I sent you? Have you used it. Has the scent faded?
Dear
What happened with that over scented Persil! I sent you? Have you used it. Has the scent faded?
Using STPP
- Thread starter gpevas
- Start date
sudsmaster
Well-known member
I remember back inthe 50's my Mom made her own soap (from bacon drippings, mostly, and it was evil smelling brown soap) and then used to in the Bendix. That was OK until my brother attempted to help out by adding even more soap. Cue in the footage of Mom running to the washer on its big cement block in the basement, trying to stem the tide of suds emerging from every washer orifice.... LOL...
In any case, I've grated Ivory Snow, added some STPP first to the washer, and then the grated Snow, and had relatively good results with manageable sudsing in the Neptune 7500 as long as the dosage was sparing.
In any case, I've grated Ivory Snow, added some STPP first to the washer, and then the grated Snow, and had relatively good results with manageable sudsing in the Neptune 7500 as long as the dosage was sparing.
Ivory Soap
I can see with the addition of STPP and use of Ivory Soap, that acceptable results could be achieved. However it's important to point out the lye concentration I mentioned up thread. Since Ivory is in fact made to be used on skin, it means that at the very least, the amount of NaOH used, is only what's required to produce a bar suitable for bathing...and no more. Last time I looked at Ivory, the glycerin remains intact.
For a true laundry soap, all fat and or oils should be reacted, (slightly over reacted would be better) then during processing the raw soap should be purified with a salt solution. This causes the glycerin (a by product of soap) to be extracted, along with some other impurities (spent lye) to be removed. What's left is a pure or purified soap. Additives such as STPP, Borax, Soda, carbolic acid, stoddard solvents, bluing agents (the list can go on) can be added to assist or customize the soap. Just those two adjustments (reacting all fat, and purifying) can make huge difference in how the same basic formula will perform for laundry use.
To my knowledge there is only one manufacture that takes the time to do the first two steps mentioned. Zote, Fels, and Ivory are not taking those steps. At least not these days. And while I have used them for one thing or another, I have never considered them to be "pure laundry soap" but that just me.
Without going into a lot detail, its worth noting that each fat or oil contains its own fatty acid make up and no two are exactly alike. Those differences can be used to the soap makers advantage. The point I'm making here, is that the selection of the fats used to start with, play a part in how a laundry soap will clean, and rinse from fabric.
When you take into consideration all of this, it's not much of a stretch to believe in the possibilities.
I can see with the addition of STPP and use of Ivory Soap, that acceptable results could be achieved. However it's important to point out the lye concentration I mentioned up thread. Since Ivory is in fact made to be used on skin, it means that at the very least, the amount of NaOH used, is only what's required to produce a bar suitable for bathing...and no more. Last time I looked at Ivory, the glycerin remains intact.
For a true laundry soap, all fat and or oils should be reacted, (slightly over reacted would be better) then during processing the raw soap should be purified with a salt solution. This causes the glycerin (a by product of soap) to be extracted, along with some other impurities (spent lye) to be removed. What's left is a pure or purified soap. Additives such as STPP, Borax, Soda, carbolic acid, stoddard solvents, bluing agents (the list can go on) can be added to assist or customize the soap. Just those two adjustments (reacting all fat, and purifying) can make huge difference in how the same basic formula will perform for laundry use.
To my knowledge there is only one manufacture that takes the time to do the first two steps mentioned. Zote, Fels, and Ivory are not taking those steps. At least not these days. And while I have used them for one thing or another, I have never considered them to be "pure laundry soap" but that just me.
Without going into a lot detail, its worth noting that each fat or oil contains its own fatty acid make up and no two are exactly alike. Those differences can be used to the soap makers advantage. The point I'm making here, is that the selection of the fats used to start with, play a part in how a laundry soap will clean, and rinse from fabric.
When you take into consideration all of this, it's not much of a stretch to believe in the possibilities.
launderess
Well-known member
Persil scent has not faded.
None of them do, am using boxes of the 1950's/early 1960's "Persil 59" and it still packs a whiff.
Actually shifted those boxes of Persil a week ago when taking the Hoover TT out of storage for a quick wash. My supply of laundry detergents is so large now things are stashed everywhere including using that wash tub of the Hoover. Well it is sitting there empty otherwise. *LOL*
Still have the first opened box using and yes it still has scent. Think after awhile one simply becomes immune and no longer notices.
Love the scent of Ivory Snow soap powder, but alas nothing more than small amounts can go into the Miele or AEG. Otherwise each protest to the amount of froth created. Pity really as the scent is just to die for.
None of them do, am using boxes of the 1950's/early 1960's "Persil 59" and it still packs a whiff.
Actually shifted those boxes of Persil a week ago when taking the Hoover TT out of storage for a quick wash. My supply of laundry detergents is so large now things are stashed everywhere including using that wash tub of the Hoover. Well it is sitting there empty otherwise. *LOL*
Still have the first opened box using and yes it still has scent. Think after awhile one simply becomes immune and no longer notices.
Love the scent of Ivory Snow soap powder, but alas nothing more than small amounts can go into the Miele or AEG. Otherwise each protest to the amount of froth created. Pity really as the scent is just to die for.
gpevas
Well-known member
Ivory snow scent!!
I have to chime in and AGREE with Laundress I also love the scent of Ivory Snow soap which is no longer made. I have a couple of boxes unopened and a box that is half empty of Ivory Snow soap but the powder is light brown colored. I wonder if it's ok to launder with?? Anyone used older laundry soap not detergent that turned an off color?
I have to chime in and AGREE with Laundress I also love the scent of Ivory Snow soap which is no longer made. I have a couple of boxes unopened and a box that is half empty of Ivory Snow soap but the powder is light brown colored. I wonder if it's ok to launder with?? Anyone used older laundry soap not detergent that turned an off color?
launderess
Well-known member
If Washing With The Hoover TT Wasn't Such A Bother
Would use Ivory Snow or any of the other pure soaps in my stash in that for a wash day.
Using soap that has gone "brown".
I say try it with a small bucket wash and see what happens, that is what I say. If it the soap still creates froth and cleans well there you are then..
Would use Ivory Snow or any of the other pure soaps in my stash in that for a wash day.
Using soap that has gone "brown".
I say try it with a small bucket wash and see what happens, that is what I say. If it the soap still creates froth and cleans well there you are then..
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Likely the brown is from oxidized fatty chains in the soap. It probably has reduced cleaning ability.
As for the glycerine, I was under the impression that Ivory Soap doesn't have any. I might be wrong, though. As for the NaOH, the STPP should provide sufficient alkalinity to for wash purposes.
As for the glycerine, I was under the impression that Ivory Soap doesn't have any. I might be wrong, though. As for the NaOH, the STPP should provide sufficient alkalinity to for wash purposes.
The alkalinity
Of the soap it self plus the alkalinity STPP would be sufficient. But NaOH should be gone. The NaOH is only used to cause the chemical reaction. After completion there should be none left, its a entirely new substance and is neither oil or NaOH. The correct weights of each, and correct math calculations related to the fats of choice, are crucial for this.
Gary when soap ages that many years the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will eventually cause the soap to break down to a simpler compound of soda ash. If the fats that were used to make the soap in the first place were not all reacted, then over time The unreacted fats will go rancid. And the soap will turn sort of a orange color and smell off. More than likely yours has picked up the color of the inside of the box. If it was rancid you'd know.
I'd try as Laundrees has suggested and see how it suds, and if there is a rancid smell (doubt there will be) the cleaning ability may have diminished as Sudsmaster has said.
Of the soap it self plus the alkalinity STPP would be sufficient. But NaOH should be gone. The NaOH is only used to cause the chemical reaction. After completion there should be none left, its a entirely new substance and is neither oil or NaOH. The correct weights of each, and correct math calculations related to the fats of choice, are crucial for this.
Gary when soap ages that many years the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will eventually cause the soap to break down to a simpler compound of soda ash. If the fats that were used to make the soap in the first place were not all reacted, then over time The unreacted fats will go rancid. And the soap will turn sort of a orange color and smell off. More than likely yours has picked up the color of the inside of the box. If it was rancid you'd know.
I'd try as Laundrees has suggested and see how it suds, and if there is a rancid smell (doubt there will be) the cleaning ability may have diminished as Sudsmaster has said.
I had a small box of vintage Duz (circa 1950) whose contents had turned yellowish brown, but it seemed okay in use. I'm not much of a soap user and am surprised when it cleans anything, though, lol. No offense, Stan!
Currently working on a box of Super Suds of about the same age and it is still white, or fairly white anyway.
Currently working on a box of Super Suds of about the same age and it is still white, or fairly white anyway.
esty
Well-known member
Can someone please advise me how much stpp to put into my standard awn542 speed queen washer. On a full load with the water level to the top holes in the washer how much stpp and detergent should I add? I just now put in, a tablespoon of stpp first, then added tide till line one. The water does not feel slippery. Am I doing this right? I just got the stpp yesterday.
Thank you.
Thank you.
No offense taken LOL
Certain soaps have there limitations, your 1950 DUZ may be detergent?
esty: you might find out from your local water Dept how many grains hard your water is, and find out how many gallons your washer fills up at that level. Then a calculation could be made.
HTH
Certain soaps have there limitations, your 1950 DUZ may be detergent?
esty: you might find out from your local water Dept how many grains hard your water is, and find out how many gallons your washer fills up at that level. Then a calculation could be made.
HTH
launderess
Well-known member
No One Can Give You A "Standard" Amount Of STPP
Since things will vary according to your local water mineral content and a few other factors.
Will say one tablespoon in any standard top loading washing machine is a tad low IMHO. For a front loader it might be fine but you are going to have to step up your game.
Since things will vary according to your local water mineral content and a few other factors.
Will say one tablespoon in any standard top loading washing machine is a tad low IMHO. For a front loader it might be fine but you are going to have to step up your game.
Calgon
Use to give a standard amount! The old box said to use a 1/2 cup for a TL machine. LOL
Use to give a standard amount! The old box said to use a 1/2 cup for a TL machine. LOL
esty
Well-known member
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was asking for an amount of stpp in my standard speed queen washer. Not a standard amount of stpp. Just thought maybe someone out there who uses a standard washer and stpp could give me some guidance. I guess it goes by my water hardness. I am new to using stpp, so please pardon my ignorance.
Thank you all.
Thank you all.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
If I'm not mistaken, vintage Calgon that contained STPP was not 100% STPP. It was more like 50/50 STPP plus washing soda.
For a top load washer I'd probably add 1-2 oz of STPP. More, or less, depending on water hardness and laundry soil level.
For a top load washer I'd probably add 1-2 oz of STPP. More, or less, depending on water hardness and laundry soil level.
mamapinky
Well-known member
esty
Please don't take offense..many people here are real experts in different ways (exclude me lol) ..I am just learning about stpp myself thanks to the kindness of the people here...I will try to help you as I also have a standard top loader. ..I decided to premix my stpp/detergent it just gave me a chance to play lol..I followed Sudsmasters recommendations up there^^^ and mixed 1part stpp to 2parts unphosphated detergent. .how much you need to add will depend on water hardness and soil level ect..I start with 1/4 cup for a full load of dirty play clothes (I can almost see everyone with a HE machine gasp at 1/4 cup lol)..but our water hogs usually need more than 2tablespoons. ..you will have to play around with it..as each load can vary...you will find your clothes cleaner and they rinse better.I hope I helped at least a bit.. feel free to ask questions everyone here is really very helpful. Take care Cheryl
Please don't take offense..many people here are real experts in different ways (exclude me lol) ..I am just learning about stpp myself thanks to the kindness of the people here...I will try to help you as I also have a standard top loader. ..I decided to premix my stpp/detergent it just gave me a chance to play lol..I followed Sudsmasters recommendations up there^^^ and mixed 1part stpp to 2parts unphosphated detergent. .how much you need to add will depend on water hardness and soil level ect..I start with 1/4 cup for a full load of dirty play clothes (I can almost see everyone with a HE machine gasp at 1/4 cup lol)..but our water hogs usually need more than 2tablespoons. ..you will have to play around with it..as each load can vary...you will find your clothes cleaner and they rinse better.I hope I helped at least a bit.. feel free to ask questions everyone here is really very helpful. Take care Cheryl
esty
Well-known member
Thank you for the responses for using stpp in my top loader.
Cheryl, thank you so much for all your imput. I really appreciate the advice being that you have used it in a top loader non he machine. Tomorrow I will be doing a full load of dirty pre school clothes and I will add 1/4 cup as per your advice. Do I add less detergent than usual? I normally use till line one of arm and hammer unscented on my children's clothing, being that they are allergic to enzymes. I am looking for a way to boost the cleaning power without having to use oxyclean. Do you find by using stpp that you don't have to pretreat every single stain? Also, do you add the stpp first, mix and then add the detergent?
Thank you so much Cheryl for offering to answer my questions.
Cheryl, thank you so much for all your imput. I really appreciate the advice being that you have used it in a top loader non he machine. Tomorrow I will be doing a full load of dirty pre school clothes and I will add 1/4 cup as per your advice. Do I add less detergent than usual? I normally use till line one of arm and hammer unscented on my children's clothing, being that they are allergic to enzymes. I am looking for a way to boost the cleaning power without having to use oxyclean. Do you find by using stpp that you don't have to pretreat every single stain? Also, do you add the stpp first, mix and then add the detergent?
Thank you so much Cheryl for offering to answer my questions.
Hi Beth
Don't want to answer for Cheryl, shel be back. I would say yes, decrease the amount if detergent.
Sudsmaster, IIRC vintage Calgon contained STPP and sodium hexametaphosphate. I remember this only because someone was throwing a fit about sodium hexametaphosphate being in Hawaiian Punch!
Don't want to answer for Cheryl, shel be back. I would say yes, decrease the amount if detergent.
Sudsmaster, IIRC vintage Calgon contained STPP and sodium hexametaphosphate. I remember this only because someone was throwing a fit about sodium hexametaphosphate being in Hawaiian Punch!
launderess
Well-known member
Original Calgon
In the sliver foil boxes was STPP and SHTP. It later became various ratios of STPP and washing soda and or whatever after bans on phosphates came into force. You had to read the code on the top of the box to see if the product contained phosphates or not.
Today's Calgon powder has nil phosphates in order for one product to be sold in all fifty states. This predates the recent ban on phosphates. IIRC the powder is Zeolites and other substances. with the liquid being sodium citrate.
Calgon is short for Calcium Be Gone, which is what the product was sold as for everything that needed "soft" water. Being the 1940's this would be a vast number of things powered by steam boilers. Everything from locomotives to ships. Calgon was also sold for use in commercial and residential steam boilers (heating). Finally it was also marketed for use in commercial dishwashing and laundry then that trickled down to domestic.
Two things helped kill sales of Calgon; ships and locomotives moved to diesel power and detergents began to replace soaps for cleaning especially laundry. It didn't help that makers of dishwasher and laundry detergents built their products with phosphates so you didn't need to add a separate product. On many packages of vintage laundry powders you see that blurb about not adding *packaged water softeners* in hard water conditions; but to use slightly more product instead.
In the sliver foil boxes was STPP and SHTP. It later became various ratios of STPP and washing soda and or whatever after bans on phosphates came into force. You had to read the code on the top of the box to see if the product contained phosphates or not.
Today's Calgon powder has nil phosphates in order for one product to be sold in all fifty states. This predates the recent ban on phosphates. IIRC the powder is Zeolites and other substances. with the liquid being sodium citrate.
Calgon is short for Calcium Be Gone, which is what the product was sold as for everything that needed "soft" water. Being the 1940's this would be a vast number of things powered by steam boilers. Everything from locomotives to ships. Calgon was also sold for use in commercial and residential steam boilers (heating). Finally it was also marketed for use in commercial dishwashing and laundry then that trickled down to domestic.
Two things helped kill sales of Calgon; ships and locomotives moved to diesel power and detergents began to replace soaps for cleaning especially laundry. It didn't help that makers of dishwasher and laundry detergents built their products with phosphates so you didn't need to add a separate product. On many packages of vintage laundry powders you see that blurb about not adding *packaged water softeners* in hard water conditions; but to use slightly more product instead.
Sorry Beth
I meant to answer the other part of your questions? IMHO yes you still need to pretreat certain stains, even when using STPP. And general rules still apply for wash temps according to fabrics and soil levels.
You also asked if one needs to "add the STPP first mix, then add detergent"
Id say yes to that too. (But that just me)
I fill the machine and wait for agitation, add STPP, continue to agitate for a min or so. Then I add the detergent, and wait another min before adding clothes.
I still think its a good idea to find out how hard you water actually is. If it's not to hard...for no other reason other than to not waste your STPP by over dosing.
HTH
I meant to answer the other part of your questions? IMHO yes you still need to pretreat certain stains, even when using STPP. And general rules still apply for wash temps according to fabrics and soil levels.
You also asked if one needs to "add the STPP first mix, then add detergent"
Id say yes to that too. (But that just me)
I fill the machine and wait for agitation, add STPP, continue to agitate for a min or so. Then I add the detergent, and wait another min before adding clothes.
I still think its a good idea to find out how hard you water actually is. If it's not to hard...for no other reason other than to not waste your STPP by over dosing.
HTH
esty
Well-known member
Thank you stan for taking the time to answer all my questions. I really appreciate it. I will try to find out my water hardness level, however since I don't know how to calculate it I will get back and ask once I find out.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
mamapinky
Well-known member
esty
Stan has given you good advice...but I wanted to clarify something..I have my stpp and laundry detergent mixed together. .bulk style lol. I used a bucket with a tight fitting lid and if I add 10 cups of detergent I add 5 cups stpp stir well and its ready to go, but you don't have to do this you sure can add it to your washer separately. As for pretreating I would say yes expecially since you are using enzyme free detergent. I pretreat once in awhile not always but I use enzymes and I do long soaks with heavy soils or stains. Yes you will probably find you can use less detergent when using stpp. You will also notice the clothes rinse much cleaner removing more of the detergent. You may be able to contact your water supplier and get your water hardness..however when I called mine they said they don't have that information so I still don't know mine. I doubt mine is hard hard since my dishwasher is almost 20years old and the washer is 14years and they are both going strong..I think if I had hard water the deposits would have already destroyed the appliances and I would find the deposits in the screen filters in the facets. ..course this isn't a scientific set in stone answer lol.I did use a test strip I purchased at walmart in the pool section it showed soft water but gave me no number and I haven't a clue if its reliable it may only be saying I have soft enough water for a pool..lol. but to answer your question. ..I would add an ounce or two of stpp to the wash water..agate a minute and feel the water if it feels slippery you know you have adden enough..good luck. Cheryl
Stan has given you good advice...but I wanted to clarify something..I have my stpp and laundry detergent mixed together. .bulk style lol. I used a bucket with a tight fitting lid and if I add 10 cups of detergent I add 5 cups stpp stir well and its ready to go, but you don't have to do this you sure can add it to your washer separately. As for pretreating I would say yes expecially since you are using enzyme free detergent. I pretreat once in awhile not always but I use enzymes and I do long soaks with heavy soils or stains. Yes you will probably find you can use less detergent when using stpp. You will also notice the clothes rinse much cleaner removing more of the detergent. You may be able to contact your water supplier and get your water hardness..however when I called mine they said they don't have that information so I still don't know mine. I doubt mine is hard hard since my dishwasher is almost 20years old and the washer is 14years and they are both going strong..I think if I had hard water the deposits would have already destroyed the appliances and I would find the deposits in the screen filters in the facets. ..course this isn't a scientific set in stone answer lol.I did use a test strip I purchased at walmart in the pool section it showed soft water but gave me no number and I haven't a clue if its reliable it may only be saying I have soft enough water for a pool..lol. but to answer your question. ..I would add an ounce or two of stpp to the wash water..agate a minute and feel the water if it feels slippery you know you have adden enough..good luck. Cheryl
esty
Well-known member
Thank you Cheryl for all your advice as well. I truly appreciate it. I do also stop and soak on heavily soiled loads. I guess you are using a powdered detergent if you are able to premix. I am using a liquid so I guess I can't premix. Just curious what detergent you are using? I do use liquid tide on my husband's and older son's clothing. Just not my little ones. They get a rash from any enzyme detergent I have tried. Even a free and clear one. So I guess you feel your clothing comes out cleaner with stpp even though you are using a detergent with enzymes. I started using Persil pearls for whites on my husband's and older son's white loads. I do add some oxyclean to that, soak a while and get amazing results! I just feel that the arm and hammer unscented doesn't cut through dirty clothing well. I have to pretreat every little stain and let sit a while, then rinse it out in the sink before putting it in the washing machine.
Thanks again so much,
Esty
Thanks again so much,
Esty
esty
Well-known member
Ok. I got the water level hardness for my area. It's 3-4 grains per gallon, and 60-70 parts per million. Anyone know how to interpret that I would appreciate it. Can anyone advise now on how much stpp to add to my top loader speed queen?
Thanks again to everyone!
Thanks again to everyone!
mamapinky
Well-known member
esty
You may regret asking me what detergent I use lol I have a lot so I will just name the few I use regularly, and yes I do prefer powder but I have a few liquids I use occasionally.
Powder
Tide with bleach or persil pearls with a shot of biz
for whites and dish towels
Tide free and clear pods for my asthmatic grandson
Gain lavender with a shot of biz for bedding
Sears (green box for brights
Ariel color and style for darks
Ecover sunny day for delicates (but can't find anymore)
I do switch up and use others at times as I know I have at least 50 different ones but these are the ones I use the most. I hope you have good results with the addition of stpp. Cheryl
You may regret asking me what detergent I use lol I have a lot so I will just name the few I use regularly, and yes I do prefer powder but I have a few liquids I use occasionally.
Powder
Tide with bleach or persil pearls with a shot of biz
for whites and dish towels
Tide free and clear pods for my asthmatic grandson
Gain lavender with a shot of biz for bedding
Sears (green box for brights
Ariel color and style for darks
Ecover sunny day for delicates (but can't find anymore)
I do switch up and use others at times as I know I have at least 50 different ones but these are the ones I use the most. I hope you have good results with the addition of stpp. Cheryl
Hi Beth
Glad you got that info. That's not too hard. Now do you know how many gallons your washer uses for a fill ? If not can you approximate?
Glad you got that info. That's not too hard. Now do you know how many gallons your washer uses for a fill ? If not can you approximate?
esty
Well-known member
hi stan
I just looked it up on speed queens website. The average water consumption per load is 24.3 gallons. I guess each time it fills is about 12 gallons. I have no idea how to do the calculation for the stpp. Would you know how its done? My daughter's load just went into the dryer. I used 2 ounces of stpp and a little less than line one on the arm and hammer. The load came out very nice and clean! I even had a pair of white cotton tights that had different stains on it. I didn't pretreat that pair on purpose to see how it comes out. All the stains are gone and everything came out nice and bright. I am very pleased with the results. Thank you Stan and Carroll for all your help.
I just looked it up on speed queens website. The average water consumption per load is 24.3 gallons. I guess each time it fills is about 12 gallons. I have no idea how to do the calculation for the stpp. Would you know how its done? My daughter's load just went into the dryer. I used 2 ounces of stpp and a little less than line one on the arm and hammer. The load came out very nice and clean! I even had a pair of white cotton tights that had different stains on it. I didn't pretreat that pair on purpose to see how it comes out. All the stains are gone and everything came out nice and bright. I am very pleased with the results. Thank you Stan and Carroll for all your help.
Hi Beth
No need for me to do the math then! If that worked, then there you have it.
The old saying sometimes rings true
"If it ain't broke don't fix it"
No need for me to do the math then! If that worked, then there you have it.
The old saying sometimes rings true
"If it ain't broke don't fix it"
mamapinky
Well-known member
beth
Your welcome glad I could help. Have you done anymore loads? What were the results let us know.How many pounds of stpp did you order..I'm asking because you will never again be happy in the laundry room without it, lol it really does help a lot..take care Cheryl
Your welcome glad I could help. Have you done anymore loads? What were the results let us know.How many pounds of stpp did you order..I'm asking because you will never again be happy in the laundry room without it, lol it really does help a lot..take care Cheryl
gpevas
Well-known member
STPP ?
I want to ask does anyone know how long STPP last after the factory bag,bucket or other original container is opened? I read that humid air will destroy or change the STPP into trisodium phosphate. Which I tried in a wash load and had VERY bad results!!! I just found out about STPP and been buying a pound at a time fearing it would degrade. Any help would be appreciated.
I want to ask does anyone know how long STPP last after the factory bag,bucket or other original container is opened? I read that humid air will destroy or change the STPP into trisodium phosphate. Which I tried in a wash load and had VERY bad results!!! I just found out about STPP and been buying a pound at a time fearing it would degrade. Any help would be appreciated.
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