Using STPP

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Your machine has a whiff about it

Because you are killing it with soap...

Pure soap for constant use in front loaders will harm most machines. Leaving aside the issue of scum deposits pure soaps contain fats and oils that can and probably will eat away at the rubber and other components inside the machine. Worse because you cannot scrub away these various deposits the moist and warm conditions inside your washer from a wonderful breeding ground for mold and mildew.

Think of your bathtub and how it looks after a week or (God forbid) longer if not cleaned to remove soap scum. It is that scum and residue that promotes the mildew and mold you see on grout.

Can understand if financial circumstances are tight, just hunt around for good "HE" detergents on sale and stock up. You will be spending more, much more if you must replace your washing machine every few years because of damage caused by soap.

To sum up soap is fine for the occasional wash in a H-axis washer. However if you truly want to go that route then best get shot of it and look for a top loading washer or even a twin-tub or wringer.
 
Laurie, Launderess has given you good advice, I would recommend you research how to start the cleaning process on your FL, if you've been using soap for a long time it needs cleaned, I can't help you with that I'm a water hog user.
I can recommend detergent, if your looking to save $$ try the sears powdered detergent, either the orange or green box are very good, and spiked with STPP is excellent. Sears often has them on sale, I just bought a 275 load box for 19.99, and its HE.Tide is the best the US offers, its generally on sale somewhere and coupons are easy to come by.I would also advise you to stear clear of liquid detergent at least for now, I'msure your machines gunked up enough right now. Good luck Cheryl
 
Hi Laurie

Missed the part that the machine has a odor? Dose it?
If so, and if the machine has a build up.. You have to start there.
Run a empty load with hottest water you can get, and a healthy dose of washing soda. If the the machine dose in fact have a " soap" build up, the soda, and hot water should break most of it loose and you'll see sudsing. At least it will indicate that you do have a "soap" build up. You may need to repeat this process until it stops producing suds, and machine runs clear.
When you've got it cleaned out, switch to synthetic HE detergent and a little STPP. I agree with Cheryl.. careful of liquid detergent until your convinced the machine is gunk free.
Despite what you've read online.. Ivory Soap is not the same as it was years ago, and has too much fat left behind during manufacturing to be used on fabric.
 
Would it be as good or maybe even better

to run Stpp instead of Soda Ash...or maybe even White Vinegar through my Front-Loader in order to clean it out? Fortunately my water heater is turned all the way up and runs extremely hot.

That said.. I had never heard of STPP and was going the TSP rout until I luckily ran across you're threads. Very very informative and has totally changed my perspective.

Are any of you knowledgeable of SPORT WASH LAUNDRY DETERGENT from ATSKO? I have been looking into it and wondered if it's soap based. I just sent them an email to see if they will give me the ingredients. Does it HAVE to be soap based if it's liquid? If it does, i'll get a box of Tide or Sears HE powder as mamapinky suggested, and cut it with stpp when it arrives. I ordered my first (stpp) two days ago and i'm anxious to get it!

hiandry++9-23-2015-09-35-57.jpg.png
 
I got a responce!

The following is the email reply from Atsko: Sport-Wash is as non-soap as a detergent can get. It is made from 2 coconut sourced surfactants.

Here is explanation of soap vs detergent
http://www.atsko.com/soap-versus-detergent/

What you need to know is "what is left behind in the clothes after washing".
With other detergents the answer is lots more irritants than you started with.
With Sport-Wash/Sensi-Clean there is no residue because it rinses completely.

-My question to you now is... If it's non-soap..is it ok to use in my front loader? Or do all liquids leave problematic scum and build up regardless?

Thanks in advance for letting me pick your brains. You folks are great.
 
My take on all this is that its more important to use a GOOD detergent then to add the STPP, especially if you have soft water. There has been a lot of detergent discussions here on the group, look for the top rated ones and you won't go too far wrong. Be sure to use enough of them also.

As for cleaning out your machine just run a full load of rags in the hottest water you can manage. You could even dump in a pot or two of boiling water from the stove before you close the door. Use a large dose of detergent and some chlorine bleach. You may want to run it a few times. Dishwasher detergent can be used to good effect here too. Be sure to run with a full load, the water spinning out of the rags sprays against the upper part of the tub rinsing it down. Running the machine empty doesn't get a lot of water to the top of the drum.

Switching detergents for various loads vs running the same thing all the time probably helps too. Different formulations will work better on different soils so switching may help thwart the build up of films in the machine. In general powder detergents are probably most effective as a generalization. I, like many people here, switch routinely between 5 or 6 different detergents depending on the load.

Front loading machines require a little adaptation in habits compared to older laundry machines to reap their benefits. The people that don't like front load machines seem to be the ones that never really learned how to embrace the new machine. Forget soaps and low end detergents and home made recipes. Buy the good stuff! Compared to a top load machine you will use far less detergent anyhow and that offsets the price.
 
On a mission

I've taken all you're wisdoms and advice and am determined to clean my FL if possible.. First run it through with only the stpp ..then a load of rags with boiling water and bleach. Then wash the rim, inside and out, with turpentine. I saw a video on youtube. I have breathing difficulties and don't want to use bleach to scrub by hand.

I'm going to order the Super Wash because it's soap free and has no chemicals. It's not really all that expensive and if I cut with stpp it should go a long way.

I love this site and feel I have some control over my Dish Washer and Front Loader now since the phosphate ban. Wish I had ran across it a long time ago.

Better late than never.
 
A bit more follow up.

I wouldn't waste a cycle running the STPP alone, that won't accomplish much of anything.

I also wouldn't clean anything in the machine with Turpentine! It's not likely a good solvent for the soils you are trying to remove and it might damage the rubber!

Personally I wouldn't use that "Superwash" product. It seems you are afraid of detergents. I'd be more afraid of dirty clothing and stuff that grows in your washer then any common detergent.

STPP can be advantageous, but it won't turn a lack luster product into a Tide beater. Detergents have improved a lot since phosphates were removed. Also remember they were banned FOR a reason! If you don't need them you shouldn't use them... And in general unless your water is really hard (or you just HAVE to use poor cleaning products) you don't need the phosphates.
 
If bleach is going to affect your breathing, wouldn't turpentine? Is that even safe to use on a washer? Maybe I missed something here but why don't you just buy a MOL detergent and spike it with STPP or a TOL detergent alone. Why buy a detergent that may just be a boutique bottle of water. If I'm wrong about the Sport Wash I'm sorry, but so many of them are junk.
 
Turpentine? Turpentine!

For the love of God woman have you no pity for this poor washing machine? *LOL*

Do you know what turpentine is and what it does? Do you know you'll never get the scent of it out of your machine totally? Persons put some strange things on Youtube and I for one wouldn't take much of it for gospel.

They happen to sell dedicated cleaners for front loading washing machines. No, not that god awful stuff Tide and others sell that is mostly oxygen bleach but descaler/schnellentkalker. Miele sells a it for use in their front loaders but you can us it in any machine. Just contact their parts department to order.

Failing this there is the method recommended by Miele to us years ago to clean our machine; vinegar and baking soda. The idea is to create a "fizzy bomb" for lack of a better analogy to clean the machine. Foaming action created by the mixture of a base and acid becomes like "scrubbing bubbles" that will loosen and help remove scum. Vinegar also is a good disinfectant and killer of mould/mildew. It also removes soap scum/hard water deposits. Indeed in much of Europe housewives along with others have been using vinegar to clean their homes long before more caustic chemicals came about.

In the old days of commercial H-axis washing machines that were side loading oxalic or other acids were used to break down soap scum/hard water mineral deposits. It also required the use of a stiff broom or scrub brush to dislodge said scum. You won't be doing that for no other reason that you cannot get between the wash tubs.

You have something in your machine resembling this:



It took some time to build up and will take effort and time to remove. That being said it is better to start the way you mean to finish. That is by using a good "HE" detergent not only will you stop future problems but also slowly the deposits and biofilm will dissolve. This process can be helped along of course by cleaning the machine as above.
 
@ Cheryl

To answer your question, yes. Especially if enough is used and if agitation is vigorous enough.

Contrary to the Atsko article.. Soap is not "mostly a art" It is in fact Science and Chemistry!

Laurie, for your situation (front loader) there's no choice except a good quality detergent. (No soap for you) If your water is hard, than the STPP will help. But you have to clean out that machine first. You've read many good suggestions here to achieve that. Please listen to Laundress don't use turpentine!
 
Thank you Stan, than there could be a real mess in that FL'er with using soap for **a long time** hopefully she gets all the build up cleaned out.

Laurie, remember that Sport Wash is a liquid, right now you would benefit from a good powder detergent. At least until you get everything cleaned up, you stated your washer has a **stink problem** liquid detergent could cause that worsen.
 
Too late

I did use the turpentine. So now my quest is to get the smell down. A little odor of it, as long as the mildew is gone, I can live with. I didn't know the gasket is easily removed and so today it comes out and the baking soda scrub begins.

As far as the stpp alone, I meant washing soda as Stan suggested.

Thanks for all the advise on the sports wash.. I assumed because it has no soap it would be ok.. I'll get instead a box of persil and cut it with stpp.. I do have hard water.

I ran the washing soda alone on a long hot cycle then boiled a large pot of water and threw it in with rags and two cups of bleach and ran it through on hot of course then I did the same with vinegar.

If that doesn't get it..my dream for a top loader will be granted. My hubby said he can come up with a plan. He is amazing when motivated. lol
 
I think I understand the plan

Clean washer with Turpentine (what were you thinking), oh wait that goes further into my analysis of the plan. Hubby's clothes now smell like Turpentine so you get a new washer. Brilliant. It think.

You do know a top loader will have stink issues if misused as well. Don't know if you will be able to pull of the ole Turpentine for a new washer trick again.
 
Laurie

The Persil is probably a safe bet.
However I'd check with Laundress about this, as she is well versed with Persil products. In other words which product used for what your washing. She will also have an idea as to whether or not STPP will be needed while using the Persil line of laundry products.
 
Launderess,

Is this (see the picture) the correct type of Persil you feel would be what I would want for my Front Loader?

BTW, everyone that was concerned about my turpentine use yesterday. I got all but a faint smell out of the rubber gasket I scrubbed with it. I lucked out and it smells kind of perfumy and almost looks new. Something had to be done and bleach was not an option.. I had tried the baking soda and vinegar first..it just didn't do it. I wiped and wiped and wiped...it was never ending and mainly just smeared. It had been left too long with the soap detergent crap I used and had built a horrible gunky moldy mess. It fits tight and I kept the top clean and just didn't realize what was brewing underneath...If I had known it came off I would have taken it outside and soaked it in bleach water..

If my lungs are not damaged further from the turp, then all worked out after all. Now my washer appears to be clean clean clean. But I know the lines may be gunked up. If they are.. I'll be getting a top loader after all. If not.. I intend to give it my best shot with what I have.

Thanks everyone..this has been fun for me. I love learning these kind of things. Just maybe i'll learn to love my FL. It's funny because I have always wanted an old fashion wringer washer.. but living where I do now.. that probably will never happen.

hiandry++9-24-2015-13-44-50.jpg.png
 
Glad you got it clean

Laundress will be along to give you the low down about the Persil.
Getting back to the soap subject for just a min... If I'm not mistaken one of the Persil powdered detergents dose contain a percentage of soap. Not enough to concern yourself with. This is another question for Laundress. She can confirm this, and give the reason for that percentage being there in the first place.
 
Many European and American detergents contain soap; Tide, Persil, etc... for a good reason it enhances cleaning of oily dirt. Soap also can be used for froth suppression but there are far better substances (silicones) for that.

Thing is when using soap as part of a detergent the formula is balanced to avoid many of the issues that come from using pure soap for laundry. This lessens the issues seen above.

Being as all this may as one has repeatedly stated persons all over Europe in particular France use soap (in particular Savon de Marseille) for laundry *in* their washing machines.

Just as with us here there are lively debates all over the French "Web" about using soap for laundry.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=le+chat+paillettes+savon+de+marseille+site:forum.doctissimo.fr

http://anissina-turelle.com/recettes/eco-produits/3-ma-lessive-au-savon-de-marseille

Henkel's Le Chat (the Cat) soap flakes sold in France: http://www.amazon.fr/Le-Chat-Paillette-Ménage-Lavages/dp/B007AAJCLG

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?33950_8
 
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Launderess,

I need to rest my brain on this for a bit but I need to make a decision on what detergent i'm going to use..at least to start out. It's confusing me because I thought we all agreed that soap .. any soap.. is a BIG NO NO in a front loader.

Three of your threads are in French and I do not have a anything installed to change it to English.

If you saw the picture of the detergent I posted I would appreciate an opinion.

As I said.. I need to rest my poor brain on this subject for a bit and just get something before my laundry gets out of control.

Thanks again you guys are great.
 
Soap and front loading washing machines

In general no, you do not nor should not routinely use soap in modern front loading washing machines. Especially the various witches brews so called "home made laundry detergent" found all over the Internet.

Being as all this may both in Europe and the USA there is a subset of the demographic that believe for various reasons soap is better for their laundry. To this market in France as noted has various soap flakes. You can also find them in the UK and USA.
http://www.amazon.com/Dri-Pak-Soap-Flakes-454g-bag/dp/B004SV0A3E

You also had or have various soap based general laundry "detergents" such as White King of old and CalBen: http://www.calbenpuresoap.com/seafoam-laundry-soap.php

These latter two combined surfactants and water softeners to overcome much of the drawbacks ot using soap for laundry.

Have other sites (sadly for you they are in French) concerning soap flakes (savon de Marseille) in the wash. Most comments say what Stan, myself and others pretty much knew already. Soap cleans very well but won't touch some stains/soils. It also requires more effort. In addition some contacted various makers of washing machines sold in France. Some (Whirlpool) recommended against using soap in their machines, others didn't think it would be a problem.

Henkel give directions for its soap flakes that they are to be used for "light duty" laundry and not routine washing. They also are to be used in "delicate" cycle or any other where drum movements are controlled. This will prevent excess froth from being churned up.

By not using soap exclusively and alternating with a modern detergent the latter will "clean" away gunk and whatever residue left by the former.

I happen to have a vast horde of laundry soap products ranging from old Persil to Ivory Snow. I would *NEVER* use any for routine washing but restrict them to linens, undergarments, delicates and other such things.

Using pure soap for doing your routine washing is just going to harm your machine. You'll never be able to reach the proper dosage required without creating huge amounts of froth. Also you'll never be able to get all that soap and its residue out of your machine. That and again the routine dosage of fats/oils can lead to rot.

Am ironing some bed linens washed last night with Ivory Snow (cut with La France and Tide liquid)and the scent is beyond wonderful.
 
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Laurie let your brain rest.. LOL

I while I don't use any of the Persil products, I'm sure you'll be happy with any of the Persil products. (One you posted) They certainly will do a better job on your laundry and won't harm your Front Loader.
 
Launderess, one of these days I hope to be lucky enough to run across some Ivory Snow, its a real bugger to find lol. I bet that bed linen did smell beyond beautiful lol
 
You can find Ivory Snow All Over The Internet

If one didn't have several cases of original Persil, P&G laundry soap bars and that case of Lux Flakes would probably get more. However am good with the three or so boxes in my stash.

Calben Laundry Soap Powder.

Notice they copied in part the old Persil formula; soap + silicates. Silicates aren't good as phosphates but will do.
 
Launderess and Stan

Thank you both for your responses to my last question.

Now.. two more. If you don't mind. *smile*

First: I have found online two different types (or just packaged differently) of Persil. One on amazn and the other on the wlmart site (the latter being much cheaper than the first) but it's not in the traditional box and people have said in the reviews that wlmart's is not the real deal and is inferior to the Persil sold on amaz_on.

Laundress...in you're opinion, if you have one. Is Wlmart's Persil the same thing but packaged differently?

Second: If my FL would happen to be in the nasty condition of the picture below.. will using an appropriate detergent and running a bleach or washing soda through once a month ..eventually clean it out?

hiandry-2015092611312602880_1.png
 
Laurie,

I used to sell astronomy equipment and I had customers that spend scads of time researching online and reading reviews. It lead them to never just pick something and get on with it. The term for that is Paralysis by Analysis. Research is good, but at a point we have to just pick something and go. Unless the goal is to just do research, but in this case I think the goal is clean laundry lol

So at this point I think you know what caused your problem with your machine.

Switching to ANY good detergent, used in proper dosing will probably completely cure your problem without the need to run cleaning cycles. Or even use STPP.

So my final suggestion is to just get on with it. But some Persil (or Tide). Run a couple loads of rags with this detergent and HOT water and some bleach. Forget about the washing soda. If you wish to toss in a Tablespoon of STPP so be it, it won't hurt. This should get the machine to be happy after a few cycles.

Moving forward just keep using those detergents, forget about soap, home made concoctions and anything unknown. Just use something well rated by Consumers Reports for instance. Run an occasional load of rags with some bleach and HOT water. Switching between various detergents from load to load sure can't hurt either. Wipe out any moisture after a cycle and make sure the door stays open.

Do these simple steps and you may eventually find that your FL machine has advantages over any top loader you could own :)
 
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