Using STPP

[hiandry]

Launderess,

Is this (see the picture) the correct type of Persil you feel would be what I would want for my Front Loader?

BTW, everyone that was concerned about my turpentine use yesterday. I got all but a faint smell out of the rubber gasket I scrubbed with it. I lucked out and it smells kind of perfumy and almost looks new. Something had to be done and bleach was not an option.. I had tried the baking soda and vinegar first..it just didn't do it. I wiped and wiped and wiped...it was never ending and mainly just smeared. It had been left too long with the soap detergent crap I used and had built a horrible gunky moldy mess. It fits tight and I kept the top clean and just didn't realize what was brewing underneath...If I had known it came off I would have taken it outside and soaked it in bleach water..

If my lungs are not damaged further from the turp, then all worked out after all. Now my washer appears to be clean clean clean. But I know the lines may be gunked up. If they are.. I'll be getting a top loader after all. If not.. I intend to give it my best shot with what I have.

Thanks everyone..this has been fun for me. I love learning these kind of things. Just maybe i'll learn to love my FL. It's funny because I have always wanted an old fashion wringer washer.. but living where I do now.. that probably will never happen.

 

[stan]

Glad you got it clean

Laundress will be along to give you the low down about the Persil.
Getting back to the soap subject for just a min... If I'm not mistaken one of the Persil powdered detergents dose contain a percentage of soap. Not enough to concern yourself with. This is another question for Laundress. She can confirm this, and give the reason for that percentage being there in the first place.

 

[launderess]

Many European and American detergents contain soap; Tide, Persil, etc... for a good reason it enhances cleaning of oily dirt. Soap also can be used for froth suppression but there are far better substances (silicones) for that.

Thing is when using soap as part of a detergent the formula is balanced to avoid many of the issues that come from using pure soap for laundry. This lessens the issues seen above.

Being as all this may as one has repeatedly stated persons all over Europe in particular France use soap (in particular Savon de Marseille) for laundry *in* their washing machines.

Just as with us here there are lively debates all over the French "Web" about using soap for laundry.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=le+chat+paillettes+savon+de+marseille+site:forum.doctissimo.fr

http://anissina-turelle.com/recettes/eco-produits/3-ma-lessive-au-savon-de-marseille

Henkel's Le Chat (the Cat) soap flakes sold in France: http://www.amazon.fr/Le-Chat-Paillette-Ménage-Lavages/dp/B007AAJCLG

Fels Naptha

Has anyone noticed the thousands of homemade laundry soap concoctions on the internet? Fels Naptha, borax, and washing soda are the main ingredients, in various proportions. Some mixed in water, some just the dry ingredients alone, stored in a container and used as needed. Anyone want to take...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[hiandry]

Launderess,

I need to rest my brain on this for a bit but I need to make a decision on what detergent i'm going to use..at least to start out. It's confusing me because I thought we all agreed that soap .. any soap.. is a BIG NO NO in a front loader.

Three of your threads are in French and I do not have a anything installed to change it to English.

If you saw the picture of the detergent I posted I would appreciate an opinion.

As I said.. I need to rest my poor brain on this subject for a bit and just get something before my laundry gets out of control.

Thanks again you guys are great.

 

[launderess]

Soap and front loading washing machines

In general no, you do not nor should not routinely use soap in modern front loading washing machines. Especially the various witches brews so called "home made laundry detergent" found all over the Internet.

Being as all this may both in Europe and the USA there is a subset of the demographic that believe for various reasons soap is better for their laundry. To this market in France as noted has various soap flakes. You can also find them in the UK and USA.
http://www.amazon.com/Dri-Pak-Soap-Flakes-454g-bag/dp/B004SV0A3E

You also had or have various soap based general laundry "detergents" such as White King of old and CalBen: http://www.calbenpuresoap.com/seafoam-laundry-soap.php

These latter two combined surfactants and water softeners to overcome much of the drawbacks ot using soap for laundry.

Have other sites (sadly for you they are in French) concerning soap flakes (savon de Marseille) in the wash. Most comments say what Stan, myself and others pretty much knew already. Soap cleans very well but won't touch some stains/soils. It also requires more effort. In addition some contacted various makers of washing machines sold in France. Some (Whirlpool) recommended against using soap in their machines, others didn't think it would be a problem.

Henkel give directions for its soap flakes that they are to be used for "light duty" laundry and not routine washing. They also are to be used in "delicate" cycle or any other where drum movements are controlled. This will prevent excess froth from being churned up.

By not using soap exclusively and alternating with a modern detergent the latter will "clean" away gunk and whatever residue left by the former.

I happen to have a vast horde of laundry soap products ranging from old Persil to Ivory Snow. I would *NEVER* use any for routine washing but restrict them to linens, undergarments, delicates and other such things.

Using pure soap for doing your routine washing is just going to harm your machine. You'll never be able to reach the proper dosage required without creating huge amounts of froth. Also you'll never be able to get all that soap and its residue out of your machine. That and again the routine dosage of fats/oils can lead to rot.

Am ironing some bed linens washed last night with Ivory Snow (cut with La France and Tide liquid)and the scent is beyond wonderful.

 

[stan]

Laurie let your brain rest.. LOL

I while I don't use any of the Persil products, I'm sure you'll be happy with any of the Persil products. (One you posted) They certainly will do a better job on your laundry and won't harm your Front Loader.

 

[mamapinky]

Launderess, one of these days I hope to be lucky enough to run across some Ivory Snow, its a real bugger to find lol. I bet that bed linen did smell beyond beautiful lol

 

[mamapinky]

I should add I'm looking for the Ivory Snow powder

 

[launderess]

You can find Ivory Snow All Over The Internet

If one didn't have several cases of original Persil, P&G laundry soap bars and that case of Lux Flakes would probably get more. However am good with the three or so boxes in my stash.

Calben Laundry Soap Powder.

Notice they copied in part the old Persil formula; soap + silicates. Silicates aren't good as phosphates but will do.

 

[hiandry]

Launderess and Stan

Thank you both for your responses to my last question.

Now.. two more. If you don't mind. *smile*

First: I have found online two different types (or just packaged differently) of Persil. One on amazn and the other on the wlmart site (the latter being much cheaper than the first) but it's not in the traditional box and people have said in the reviews that wlmart's is not the real deal and is inferior to the Persil sold on amaz_on.

Laundress...in you're opinion, if you have one. Is Wlmart's Persil the same thing but packaged differently?

Second: If my FL would happen to be in the nasty condition of the picture below.. will using an appropriate detergent and running a bleach or washing soda through once a month ..eventually clean it out?

 

[kb0nes]

Laurie,

I used to sell astronomy equipment and I had customers that spend scads of time researching online and reading reviews. It lead them to never just pick something and get on with it. The term for that is Paralysis by Analysis. Research is good, but at a point we have to just pick something and go. Unless the goal is to just do research, but in this case I think the goal is clean laundry lol

So at this point I think you know what caused your problem with your machine.

Switching to ANY good detergent, used in proper dosing will probably completely cure your problem without the need to run cleaning cycles. Or even use STPP.

So my final suggestion is to just get on with it. But some Persil (or Tide). Run a couple loads of rags with this detergent and HOT water and some bleach. Forget about the washing soda. If you wish to toss in a Tablespoon of STPP so be it, it won't hurt. This should get the machine to be happy after a few cycles.

Moving forward just keep using those detergents, forget about soap, home made concoctions and anything unknown. Just use something well rated by Consumers Reports for instance. Run an occasional load of rags with some bleach and HOT water. Switching between various detergents from load to load sure can't hurt either. Wipe out any moisture after a cycle and make sure the door stays open.

Do these simple steps and you may eventually find that your FL machine has advantages over any top loader you could own

 

[stan]

Laurie

I wish I could answer your first question, but really can't because I've never used any Persil.
Laundress knows this detergent, and is familiar with the differences between the European types as well as the U.S version.
I can say that I've heard good reviews about the one sold at Walmart. So give it a try.
There no way to "forget about the washing soda" because it's in all powdered detergents anyway. And it's there for a reason.

 

[kb0nes]

"There no way to "forget about the washing soda" because it's in all powdered detergents anyway."

Exactly, hence my suggestion.... If more would make the detergent better, I bet it would come that way

 

[hiandry]

Good advice you two, thanks a heap.

What are you guys saying about the washing soda? Forget about it? But we can't because it's in all detergents? I thought that would be a good thing. No?

 

[stan]

Hi Laurie

I think Phil and I are talking about two different things.
Most powdered detergents contain 30 to 40 % sodium carbonate..AKA washing soda. You haven't been using commercially made laundry detergents. You've been doing the Ivory soap thing!
What I'm proposing is using a full cup of washing soda by itself (full strength) in a attempt to clean out the machine. Since you have a Front Loading machine.. I'd pre-dissolve this in hot water before adding to the dispenser.
I'm not suggesting that you do this continually, or that you add washing soda to powdered detergent since it's already contained therein.
Phil is making a very good suggestion in that whatever you chose to clean the machine with, that you run it with shop towels, rags ect, so that whatever you clean it with, gets dispersed to all sides of the tub.
When I helped a friend clean her machine (she had been a liquid detergent user with cold wash and rinses) and we where dealing with a Top Loader and had the advantage of filling the machine with hottest water, adding a cup and a half of Washing soda, letting it soak a while, then allowing the machine to go through a full cycle. We were able to see what the soda broke loose, and it started producing suds, with NO detergent added! Since her machine drained into a laundry sink instead of a stand pipe, we were able to really able to see what came out. This is what worked for her.
I'm not recommending that you do this all the time. Or for you to make habit of adding washing soda with every load. If you get the above Persil Pearls you won't need to.
Personally.. Occasionally I only use washing soda is when I'm using a liquid detergent (P.H neutral) and think for whatever reason I want to boost alkalinity. In that case I may add two Tbls only. (Also pre-dissolved)
"Occasionally" being the operative word here.

 

[tomturbomatic]

In response to Phil's statement about using just detergent if you have soft water, I would invite him to ask his brother Jeff about the benefits of adding STPP to the detergent. Jeff thought that because he has a water softener, he did not need STPP even though I offered to let him try some several times. Somehow or other, he eventually did try STPP and was a impressed at the improvement. Soft water makes for better washing and rinsing, but STPP adds something more. I think Jeff mentioned something about the soils and the acids into which body oils morph being more than what just soft water can handle. It loosens soils and helps detergents to rinse out of fabrics better. I am not adding more because anybody who bothers to use the searcholator feature can find numerous previous discussions on the topic.

 

[hiandry]

One has to be a paid member

in order to use the search locator. I am considering becoming one because this site is a wealth of information and I would love to use it. And not only because it's so interesting and informative..but because of the way it's set-up and the ongoing members are so interesting and enjoyable.

 

[mamapinky]

Doesn't that homemade stuff use washing soda? Ah well even so with using the few tabelspoons mixed with god only knows what else can't even count that few grains Cheryl

 

[tennblondie78]

Oh for the love of God, Hiandry, just go to Wal-Mart, buy some Persil and be done with it. You are making mountains out of molehills and making it too difficult. This isn't rocket science. You first said you couldn't afford HE detergent and then you went to buying Persil off of Amazon, which is high. I got a headache after reading the Turpentine bit. Go buy some Persil and your machine will finish cleaning itself out over time. Sorry to be short, but the whole thing has gotten ridiculous.

 

[hiandry]

The STPP arrived yesterday and i've had my first experie

with it. Since the cleaning out of my FL had begun several days ago, I have used NO detergent, not wanting to aggravate the scum/mold issue i've been fighting. I decided to wait for the Persil I ordered... so i've been washing with Borax and Washing Soda alone..and have done maybe 4 loads like that. I sniffed and looked the laundry over as it came out of the wash then dryer, and only found one wash cloth that smelled questionable.

After the Stpp came I used a little with borax alone and WOW what a difference! Everything was softer than I can ever recall and had a clean smell I can't ever remember experiencing.

And that's with only Borax and Stpp. I realize the soap is still probably in everything that never rinsed well but maybe not all that much because I always used two rinses and put a full cup or more of vinegar in each load.