V-Zug washer arrived

[foraloysius]

Already in the 60's I learned to be suspicious of the tests consumer organisations perform. Back then the Dutch consumer orginasition tested washing machines. They turned the machines off after one minute into the spin cycle. They stated that most of the water had been spun out and there was no use in letting the machines spin longer. The tested Miele spun at 800rpm in that first minute, didn't get a chance to spin the last three minutes at 1000rpm!

In this test the time the cycles took speaks for itself, they used cycles you can't compare. 190 minutes for the LG and 84 minutes for the Zug! No wonder the Zug performed worse!

BTW, there was a time that washers were tested using programmes with higher temperatures!

 

[nrones]

V-Zug

I must say that this is AWESOME machine!
I'd deffinatley like to have one, and on the vids on YouTube it looks AWESOME TOO! Like it very much, it is very original washing machine! And personally, I think this is THE BEST drum I've ever seen, really really good!
I would love to see more videos of it on YouTube if that's possible (from all the owners )

I totally agree with Foralyosious on consumer reports.. especially mentioning the time of the cycle they chosen.. recently the same thing happened on general test of washers in Which? where Basic Hoover's (with temperature-knob, that has already pre-set higher/normal time) were rated 4* for wash (because it lasts 2hours) and, those advanced (with Time manager), where they are automaticly pre-set to lowest possible time (and clearly says LIGHT SOIL), so wash lasted 1:30 and got 2*, almost exact case like LG 190mins and V-zug 84 (just time difference on VZug is bigger ).. and there is like million of other cases through history that proove nothing more than their inconvenience

But what I could see in V-zug history, this is a first decent outer-look washing machine, because older ones had very wired colour combinations (like gray-blue, or Brown), and the shape wasn't quite tasty (like one in the link), but still, they were technicly amazing. That's just about my personal taste of outer design, however this one is true beauty!

Dex

 

[brisnat81]

Choice test the machines on whatever cycle was used to get the energy rating. So whatever the manual details as the "Standard" test cycle that is what they use when testing the machines. Choice also load the machine to the rated capacity for the test, so if any of the others has a larger drum than the Vzug and is rated at the same weight, it stands that it'll wash better. Is a 60L drum the biggest so far in a standard cabinet?

They marked Miele down for years, purely because you couldnt do a cold Cottons cycle, the minimum temp was 30degC.

The rinse on the Miele adjusts itself best when there is a temperature drop, so that it can analyse the absorbancy of the clothes. If the wash water is the same temp as the rinse, I dont see how the active rinse function of the Miele can work.

I dropped my Choice subscription last year when it got up around $22 a quarter and the detail in the reviews started to drop off, I'd rather do the research myself.

 

[nrones]

test cycles

Well, thats what differs between that Australian consumer report and European.. I know that British "Which", and Italian "Altroconsumo" both put 80% of labeled capacity, on Cottons 40 (which with pre-set lowest time doesn't end up as good

If we say standard size cabinet is 60x60 footprint, I know Candy/Hoover have a 66L drum in that size cabinet, however I'm not sure if it's biggest

Dex

 

[deedub]

V-Zug

I'm running a denim wash as we speak, at least I think I am cos I can't hear the thing running! I'm sure they will come out clean, same as they did in the Miele.
I saw a really interesting interview with the UK distributor and the Export Manager of V-Zug, it explains what they are on about. Personally I'd be happy with Miele or V-Zug anything, had both and love them. I sell them for a living, I let the customer decide, but V-Zug is definitely becoming more popular in the kitchen, in black it looks stunning. Miele still only bring out the stainless models to Aus.

Ps. the V-Zg spin is silent from the machine but the floor moves a bit! Not their fault but you wouldn't want it on a wooden floor in an old house. Might pull the whole thing down.

 

[deedub]

V-Zug story

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/acaa7592-99a3-11df-a852-00144feab49a.html#axzz1aGJdTXwf

 

[rudin1969]

Why do you think VZug has not provided a fuzzy logic system that reduces the time of the programme with partial loads?

 

[deedub]

It does adjust the cycle based on load size.

 

[chestermikeuk]

Choice...

Interesting results, the Choice reports set alarm bells ringing straight away as the Asko`s have shallower rinses and use less water, and this test model has the highest water usage....

Louis, yes you would have thought that a max temp would have been used, have you used the Zug Unimatic Top loaders??,

David, still interested in knowing what type of plumbing system you are using it with? is it linked into a pressurized hot water system??, is yours on a suspended wooden floor then??

Dex, yes technically amazing, aesthetics - well as you say thats all down to personal choice..

 

[chestermikeuk]

"Why do you think VZug has not provided a fuzzy logic sy

Why ever would you want that term " Logic" linked with the word "Fuzzy" and have it on your machine has always been the biggest misnomer for me...LOl, so all it does is what?? monitors the "Processes" and adjusts the "Variables" - well thats exactly what the Zugs do - but using their own "Swiss Precision" technology, and not some other term loosely banded about and used as the most over-rated sales tool ever...

When you study the Zug Adora washing you will observe the "Variables" in motion, and when you see the motor control on the wet clean and delicate programmes, its an art in itself in getting the drum to hold the cradle motion on the quarter turns...

And if you want "Precision Control" you only need to look at the "Black Box" speed controller and the computer controls on the top to see the quality...and its the "Hidden Programming" thats the art....which Zug appear to have perfected over many years...

 

[chestermikeuk]

Pride Of Place - Zug

Good Article -

http://www.vzug.com/medias/sys_master/8806783254558/2011_09_monocle.pdf

 

[foraloysius]

Mike

No, I have never used a Zug Unimatic toploader.

Thanks for the link to the article.

 

[mielerod69]

Choice, Steam, Soft water, Fuzzy Logic.....

Hi All,

Some of the topics I would like to comment on: Let's start with Choice. Brisnat said they test to the energy label, actually they don't and this is why there is such a discrepancy in results. All front loaders are usually tested using the Cottons 40 degree wash. Miele using their default Cottons 40 programme with no options, The VZug programme is the 40 degree programme with normal soiling option selected, and 1400 rpm spin for the label programme. Choice does all their testing with cold water, as 70% of their subscribers wash in cold water, go figure. This does have an impact on the overall score of the machines.
When it comes to the steam function of the Miele vs the VZug these also differ. The Miele uses a twin injection system in the wash drum. The steam is produced in an external steam generator and injected from the top of the drum and in between the inner and outer drum. The VZug produces steam in the bottom of the outer drum with the heating element submerged in water. The advantage of the Miele system is that it can tailor the steam delivery in the drum depending on the type of fabric being steamed.
When it comes to soft water and rinsing, Miele offers Water plus option as well as extra rinse option, which I use here in Melbourne as the water is very soft, 3 German degrees. The VZug has an option that can be enabled for soft water areas, as well as being able to add up to 2 additional rinses as well as increasing the water level.
Fuzzy logic, a term which was invented in the 80s and used by many Asian brands. Miele has 2 electronic control modules, one which is on the control panel and the other is the control electronic which looks very much like the VZug machine and that is the brain which controls all the processes of the wash cycle.

 

[deedub]

Miele vs Zug

Gee Rod, if their is ever a product manager position at Miele you would be perfectly qualified! lol.
David

 

[deedub]

Plumbing

Chestermike,

I have no idea about my plumbing - the water comes out that's the extent of my knowledge!! I'm on a concrete floor third story. I originally had the Miele on a timber floor and it never caused any problems, was well impressed!

 

[mielerod69]

VZug energy and water ratings

I noticed that the machines have had their energy and water ratings improved. It seems that VZug are planning to compete on the Australian market. The updated SLQ has a 4 star energy efficiency and 4.5 star WELS water efficiency rating. The first ones had 3.5 star energy and 4 star water. There goes the rinse efficiency! Also the test programme time has jumped from 134 minutes to 174 minutes for the normal soil level! Water consumption has dropped 10 litres to 66 compared to 76.

 

[chestermikeuk]

Test Results

Hi Rod, "All front loaders are usually tested using the Cottons 40 degree wash" are you meaning the Choice test programmes or the EU EN60456 directive??

BTW, I thought you did work for Miele??

Hi David, I was asking if your hot water comes from a pressurized gas combi boiler or sealed electric system?

 

[realist]

V-Zug Adora washing machines

I have used V-Zug appliances most of my life, living in Switzerland for more than 40 years. During that time I never ever had to call an Engineer. V-Zug washing machines and dryers are perfect, low energy efficicient and reliable. For the last 9 years I had a Neff washer/dryer since the V-Zug were not available in the UK. I needed the Neff Engineer at least once a year. We will be moving soon and I am looking forward to replace the Neff with a V-Zug washer and dryer because this is the only make I know from experience I can trust. I am sure Miele is reliable too, but with V-Zug I know what I have!

 

[chestermikeuk]

Zug

Hello Eva and welcome to the appliances club, can you tell us what Zug washing machines you and you family have had and used please??

Are you staying in the UK or moving back to Switzerland??

What where the problems with your Neff washer dryer??

 

[mielerod69]

Australian Standards

Hi Mike,

Washing machines whether top or front loading are tested to AS/NZS 2040.2. The programme used is a Normal or Cottons programme with a minimum temperature of 40 degrees. Some manufacturers also use up to 60 degrees to achieve the pass required for the label. This of course would lower the energy star rating. Therefore the programme is optimised to obtain the best energy and water rating. The standard also tests for rinse efficiency. There was a point where machines were using very little water but were not rinsing properly to obtain a high water efficiency rating. They put a marker in the wash water and see what is left behind after the cycle finishes. The less that is left the better the rinse performance. The problem with the marker is that it dissolves and rinses out easily when using higher temperatures. When Choice test, they only test to part of the standard. That is they use the standard wash load and marker for rinse efficiency, but test using the cold setting rather than what's stated on the energy label. This therefore affects the overall performance scores for dirt removal and rinse efficiency as the marker doesn't rinse out as easily when using cold water in the wash cycle.

Shhh!!! don't tell anyone!