O.K. What about Mexican vanilla? I know people who swear by it. I don't see what's so special about it. I tried it once and couldn't tell the difference. G
Vanilla
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America's Test Kitchen, which I consider the gold standard for taste-tests (and kitchen equipment tests, for that matter) tested vanilla extract. When their regular panel found little difference between real and imitation vanilla (made from wood pulp, by the way), they called in an expert panel of pastry chefs and ran the test again. You guessed it: The pastry chefs also found no real difference between real and imitation. One pastry chef, according to ATK head honcho Chris Kimball, asked that his name not be used because he didn't want to face the wrath of real vanilla purists.
They taste-tested vanilla in milk; 1 part vanilla to 8 parts milk. That is far stronger than the concentration in most recipes that use vanilla---which is closer to 1 part vanilla to 80-95 parts batter (or whatever).
They taste-tested vanilla in milk; 1 part vanilla to 8 parts milk. That is far stronger than the concentration in most recipes that use vanilla---which is closer to 1 part vanilla to 80-95 parts batter (or whatever).
But Eugene, how do you feel about America's Test Kitchen without Kimball at the helm? Do you think it will be around in 2 years? Grreg
Real Mexican Vanilla
is to 'regular' vanilla what Arabica is to Robusta. Just, 99.9999% of the stuff marketed as such, isn't.
Sigh.
I don't mind serving a decent wine for the first two glasses. After that, any old Grape Koolaide with vodka in it will do. The snobs can't tell the difference and normal people don't drink good wine like a horse guzzles water after a race.
is to 'regular' vanilla what Arabica is to Robusta. Just, 99.9999% of the stuff marketed as such, isn't.
Sigh.
I don't mind serving a decent wine for the first two glasses. After that, any old Grape Koolaide with vodka in it will do. The snobs can't tell the difference and normal people don't drink good wine like a horse guzzles water after a race.
In the 15 years that I was the Cathedral cook at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral in Seattle, I and we did lots of large parish and diocese's wide events. Unless we had a sponsor for the wine, we used mostly Gallo Chablis or Hearty Burgundy in carafes. No one ever complained about the quality of the wine and yes, if someone had bought a whole table (usually $500.00) they were allowed to bring their own wine. No one ever questioned the wine. They just drank it! Even my mentor, Francois Kissel used Gallo wines as both his kitchen wine and his "house wine" in the bistro. G
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Interesting that there was no noticeable difference with that America's Test Kitchen test! Hmmm...maybe I should consider imitation next time!
I was at the grocery store earlier. I can't recall how much imitation saved, but it was noticeable. Enough that every dollar counts buyer (like me!) notices. At least as far as list prices. The cheapest choice might have been--strangely--the real stuff. Of course, it was a brand on sale, in a small bottle. Per ounce, the imitation probably runs less. But I use so little of the stuff, and I'm so conscious of every dollar, that the pure stuff would have been the winner today if I'd bought vanilla.
"I don't mind serving a decent wine for the first two glasses. After that, any old Grape Koolaide with vodka in it will do."
I remember the cheapskate trick: serve good wine/beer for the first two servings, and then the cheap stuff after. No one will notice once alcohol kicks in!
"Unless we had a sponsor for the wine, we used mostly Gallo Chablis or Hearty Burgundy in carafes."
I can't say I'm a wine expert. (Whine expert, maybe... LOL) But I've had Gallo Burgundy and I've had better stuff when a winery is holding a tasting someplace local. The Gallo is quite passable. I can tell a difference with $$$ wine...but is it worth the $$$? Especially if one is serving it with dinner? For me, no...
Interesting article. Off topic, but it may have some points similar to "decent vanilla" vs. "gourmet approved vanilla that costs more than a new BMW".
I was at the grocery store earlier. I can't recall how much imitation saved, but it was noticeable. Enough that every dollar counts buyer (like me!) notices. At least as far as list prices. The cheapest choice might have been--strangely--the real stuff. Of course, it was a brand on sale, in a small bottle. Per ounce, the imitation probably runs less. But I use so little of the stuff, and I'm so conscious of every dollar, that the pure stuff would have been the winner today if I'd bought vanilla.
"I don't mind serving a decent wine for the first two glasses. After that, any old Grape Koolaide with vodka in it will do."
I remember the cheapskate trick: serve good wine/beer for the first two servings, and then the cheap stuff after. No one will notice once alcohol kicks in!
"Unless we had a sponsor for the wine, we used mostly Gallo Chablis or Hearty Burgundy in carafes."
I can't say I'm a wine expert. (Whine expert, maybe... LOL) But I've had Gallo Burgundy and I've had better stuff when a winery is holding a tasting someplace local. The Gallo is quite passable. I can tell a difference with $$$ wine...but is it worth the $$$? Especially if one is serving it with dinner? For me, no...
Interesting article. Off topic, but it may have some points similar to "decent vanilla" vs. "gourmet approved vanilla that costs more than a new BMW".
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www.theatlantic.com
Greg-- I really like Julia Collin Davison and Bridget Lancaster, so I'm hopeful for the future of America's Test Kitchen. On the other hand, Kimball is to ATK what Garrison Keillor was to A Prairie Home Companion, so it's definitely a big, big change for longtime followers. I don't get the magazines anymore, nor do I have cable to watch the show on PBS. I do pay for ATK and Cook's Country online, which shows video of recipes and taste/equipment tests.
Hi, Ben!
Hi, Ben!
The best vanilla I ever used was made by myself. A cheap bottle of vodka and lots of vanilla beans that I got on sale. Split the vanilla beans and put the beans and the marrow into the bottle. Let it sit for 8 weeks, shake now and then and you're set to bake.
Yeah!
thanks for the link.
There are some foods and beverages which require the very best. Chocolate is one - the human nose can tell the difference and mouthfeel is everything.
Coffee is another. Thank goodness American coffee has improved over the last few years. It's almost at the same level now as coffee was in the DDR back in the1980s.
Beer - yikes. There are some adequate American microbrews, now. They still don't understand how to make a decent alcohol-free beer, though. Nor, care to.
Probably the best comment on the whole snobbishness I ever heard was from American friends (from Texas!) visiting us several years back. The 'grappa' advertising had worked it's wonders throughout Europe and many 'sophisticates' were guzzling the stuff. The Texans, who knew exactly what grappa really is couldn't have been more amused. To them (as to the Italians before their brilliant merchandising) it was the dregs of the dregs. The comment:
'So, this is culture.'
Still has me laughing. So true.
thanks for the link.
There are some foods and beverages which require the very best. Chocolate is one - the human nose can tell the difference and mouthfeel is everything.
Coffee is another. Thank goodness American coffee has improved over the last few years. It's almost at the same level now as coffee was in the DDR back in the1980s.
Beer - yikes. There are some adequate American microbrews, now. They still don't understand how to make a decent alcohol-free beer, though. Nor, care to.
Probably the best comment on the whole snobbishness I ever heard was from American friends (from Texas!) visiting us several years back. The 'grappa' advertising had worked it's wonders throughout Europe and many 'sophisticates' were guzzling the stuff. The Texans, who knew exactly what grappa really is couldn't have been more amused. To them (as to the Italians before their brilliant merchandising) it was the dregs of the dregs. The comment:
'So, this is culture.'
Still has me laughing. So true.
My sister visits Mexico every year, and she buys vanilla at a good price while down there. She thinks it tastes better, and by getting it in Mexico, it's less expensive.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
You could call me a Vanilla snob
Mexican as apposed to Madagascar vanilla or other exotics is not so much the vanilla flavor, but like a good wine the secondary elements. Sometimes I wonder if the flavors are introduced through the extract media. Such as the Madagascar vanilla through King Arthur is percolated with Bourbon where as some of the other extracts us Vodka or other absolute alcohol. King Arthur's vanilla has a floral essence to it that could be associated with a good bourbon.
I get most of my vanilla now from a local supplier The Spice Merchant. They make their own extract, and it is double strength, so truly you use half until you are sure in your recipe. To get a really good vanilla flavor without the secondary flavors bean paste is very good if you don't want to mess with scraping the beans yourself, however, it is more costly than the imitation flavors at the grocery.
P.S. I may have mentioned this before, but The Spice Merchant is housed in the original Mentholatum building. Also my favorite place to buy coffee and tea, and of course, spices.
Mexican as apposed to Madagascar vanilla or other exotics is not so much the vanilla flavor, but like a good wine the secondary elements. Sometimes I wonder if the flavors are introduced through the extract media. Such as the Madagascar vanilla through King Arthur is percolated with Bourbon where as some of the other extracts us Vodka or other absolute alcohol. King Arthur's vanilla has a floral essence to it that could be associated with a good bourbon.
I get most of my vanilla now from a local supplier The Spice Merchant. They make their own extract, and it is double strength, so truly you use half until you are sure in your recipe. To get a really good vanilla flavor without the secondary flavors bean paste is very good if you don't want to mess with scraping the beans yourself, however, it is more costly than the imitation flavors at the grocery.
P.S. I may have mentioned this before, but The Spice Merchant is housed in the original Mentholatum building. Also my favorite place to buy coffee and tea, and of course, spices.
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www.thespicemerchant.com
Either real vanilla whole beans or paste. Both are streets ahead of the stuff with alcohol you find in supermarkets.
Made the switch years ago when seriously got into baking. You can taste and smell the difference both while mixing, baking and final product.
For the record both also make for excellent hot chocolate and anything else made from scratch at home that requires vanilla flavor.
Made the switch years ago when seriously got into baking. You can taste and smell the difference both while mixing, baking and final product.
For the record both also make for excellent hot chocolate and anything else made from scratch at home that requires vanilla flavor.
