Strap yourselves in, set your peril-sensitive sunglasses to "stunned," and prepare to be underwhelmed as we explore the quirks that only WCI quality can deliver:
Video of the 1989 Frigidaire model WDD-W-3
- Thread starter roto204
- Start date
Help Support :
Sit-N-Spin A-La-Cart
Clothes circle but never goes down!
Clothes circle but never goes down!
Yay!!! I hadn't seen that agitator since blindfolding my machine and sending it out the door back in '88. The suds pouring into the rinse cycle used to drive me crazy; but I'd usually use fabric softener, so it would disappear quickly.
Those machines would have performed so much better with a nice, big, ramped agitator, but they always insisted on putting wimpy-vaned, 98-lb. weaklings in them.
I grew up on a 1960 Kenmore Model 80 (with a preggers Roto-Swirl), then replaced it with a Whirlpool that had a winged Surgilator in '85. Both those machines were pretty muscular in the rollover department. I moved and left the Whirlpool behind. An '87 WCI Frigidaire with the same agitator as yours was my next machine. You can imagine how shocked I was at the lack of rollover.
After about 9 months, mine would also have to neutral drain about 1/3 of the water before it would start to spin. I thought maybe the transmission was already shot, but apparently the belt needed tightening or replacing.
On the bright side, the '06 Frigidaire with a dual-action agitator is stellar in rollover by comparison. But again, four teeny-tiny, thin little blades down at the skirt are expected to move a big load in a large (3 cu. ft.) tub. Insanity! Put a muscular agitator in these machines and they'd probably be contenders.
I've still never figured out how the indexing happens. It's not just indexing because there's no brake. The tub starts and stops its indexing very precisely.
If you set the water level as low as it will go, set the agitation speed to slow, then grab the agitator so it can't perform its clockwise stroke, the tub will go whirling around.
There's a connection between the initial drag on the clockwise agitation stroke and the amount of indexing. It somehow senses the amount of drag on the agitator right at the beginning of the clockwise stroke, which immediately indexes the tub in the opposite direction. The more initial drag, the shorter the agitator stroke and the more indexing.
Why...it must be magic!
At any rate, thanks for posting the video, Nate!
Those machines would have performed so much better with a nice, big, ramped agitator, but they always insisted on putting wimpy-vaned, 98-lb. weaklings in them.
I grew up on a 1960 Kenmore Model 80 (with a preggers Roto-Swirl), then replaced it with a Whirlpool that had a winged Surgilator in '85. Both those machines were pretty muscular in the rollover department. I moved and left the Whirlpool behind. An '87 WCI Frigidaire with the same agitator as yours was my next machine. You can imagine how shocked I was at the lack of rollover.
After about 9 months, mine would also have to neutral drain about 1/3 of the water before it would start to spin. I thought maybe the transmission was already shot, but apparently the belt needed tightening or replacing.
On the bright side, the '06 Frigidaire with a dual-action agitator is stellar in rollover by comparison. But again, four teeny-tiny, thin little blades down at the skirt are expected to move a big load in a large (3 cu. ft.) tub. Insanity! Put a muscular agitator in these machines and they'd probably be contenders.
I've still never figured out how the indexing happens. It's not just indexing because there's no brake. The tub starts and stops its indexing very precisely.
If you set the water level as low as it will go, set the agitation speed to slow, then grab the agitator so it can't perform its clockwise stroke, the tub will go whirling around.
There's a connection between the initial drag on the clockwise agitation stroke and the amount of indexing. It somehow senses the amount of drag on the agitator right at the beginning of the clockwise stroke, which immediately indexes the tub in the opposite direction. The more initial drag, the shorter the agitator stroke and the more indexing.
Why...it must be magic!
At any rate, thanks for posting the video, Nate!
autowasherfreak
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 3,637
Quality sure went to hell when WCI took over. Quite a shame, they had a great thing going with the Unimatic, Rollermatics.
Thanks for the video.
Thanks for the video.
Indexing
I'll have to search for one of the awesome technical explanations that have graced this site, but any machine will index in the absence of a brake or other mechanism that would otherwise hold the wash-tub stationary during agitation. Indexing is the sympathetic motion of the tub with respect to the stroke of the agitator.
It is precise, but it's equal-and-opposite, and you'll notice it's more pronounced with larger loads. My Westinghouse top-loader, in fact, would not index at all on lower water levels, but indexed brilliantly with a full load.
I totally agree about the agitators, and I can't figure why--when they had such a good thing going with the Westinghouse toploader ramped agitator--they'd ditch that and keep a suite of lousy-to-awful agitators around, none of which did that great of a job. You can't help but wonder if the ramped agitator would have rocked if remolded to fit the drive block of the Franklin mechanism.
Then again, with this design, I don't think WCI was out to rule the world through design--just through saturation.
And if it's any consolation, I think of doing laundry in this machine as "soaking the dirt away." Clothes still come out clean, oddly enough, even ones where I've blopped gravy on a shirt, or what have you. Still, a little rollover feels kind of good.
Do you have a vid of your dual-action Frigidaire washing? I'd love to have a look and see what that's like.
I'll have to search for one of the awesome technical explanations that have graced this site, but any machine will index in the absence of a brake or other mechanism that would otherwise hold the wash-tub stationary during agitation. Indexing is the sympathetic motion of the tub with respect to the stroke of the agitator.
It is precise, but it's equal-and-opposite, and you'll notice it's more pronounced with larger loads. My Westinghouse top-loader, in fact, would not index at all on lower water levels, but indexed brilliantly with a full load.
I totally agree about the agitators, and I can't figure why--when they had such a good thing going with the Westinghouse toploader ramped agitator--they'd ditch that and keep a suite of lousy-to-awful agitators around, none of which did that great of a job. You can't help but wonder if the ramped agitator would have rocked if remolded to fit the drive block of the Franklin mechanism.
Then again, with this design, I don't think WCI was out to rule the world through design--just through saturation.
And if it's any consolation, I think of doing laundry in this machine as "soaking the dirt away." Clothes still come out clean, oddly enough, even ones where I've blopped gravy on a shirt, or what have you. Still, a little rollover feels kind of good.
Do you have a vid of your dual-action Frigidaire washing? I'd love to have a look and see what that's like.
Larry!
LOL--you got it!
LOL--you got it!
Looks like a bad tranny bearing...the one that the tranny sits in. Prolly why the belt is glazed. That tub should start to creep as soon as it starts to spin. These machines run a close second to the style before, when they wired the lid lock assy through the start winding of the motor. You guessed it....when the lid/lock mechanism shorted out, it took the srart windings of the motor with it. Wonder what genius thought of that one....LOL!!!!
Nate---There are three videos of my 2006 Frigidaire TL'er in action on YouTube. Just search '2006 Frigidaire Washer'.
In one of them, I purposely overloaded the machine to a ridiculous degree, just to see how it would behave. Amazingly, there is still some rollover, albeit at a snail's pace. I had to add water up to the balance ring.
My machine's maximum fill is only to the third row of holes from the top of the tub. Infuriating, but I've rigged a device using a rubber band and a picture-hanging hook to hold the infinite water level dial closer to the reset position. That fills it completely full, as god intended.
In one of them, I purposely overloaded the machine to a ridiculous degree, just to see how it would behave. Amazingly, there is still some rollover, albeit at a snail's pace. I had to add water up to the balance ring.
My machine's maximum fill is only to the third row of holes from the top of the tub. Infuriating, but I've rigged a device using a rubber band and a picture-hanging hook to hold the infinite water level dial closer to the reset position. That fills it completely full, as god intended.
I still can't see how anything gets clean. It's the laundry version of ring around the roses nrsery rhyme.
Thanks, guys
I enjoyed hearing your shrieks of terror from all over the country. Now, don't all jump on Craigslist at the same time looking for these machines; there are plenty to go around, trust me. :-D
Bob, I think that the wash is just a war of attrition. Still, everything comes out fine, so I shrug and move on. It's just not that entertaining to watch.
Lebron, my pleasure. When I initially processed the video to YouTube from iMovie, YouTube went into "System Maintenance" mode and promptly lost it, so it took a little longer for me to rerender and re-upload, but we got it eventually...
I enjoyed hearing your shrieks of terror from all over the country. Now, don't all jump on Craigslist at the same time looking for these machines; there are plenty to go around, trust me. :-D
Bob, I think that the wash is just a war of attrition. Still, everything comes out fine, so I shrug and move on. It's just not that entertaining to watch.
Lebron, my pleasure
. When I initially processed the video to YouTube from iMovie, YouTube went into "System Maintenance" mode and promptly lost it, so it took a little longer for me to rerender and re-upload, but we got it eventually...
Dang!
Wow, Eugene, your DA Frigidaire is a turnover champ compared to mine! Wowza!
Wow, Eugene, your DA Frigidaire is a turnover champ compared to mine! Wowza!
Nate: Except for large, highly-stained loads, I also noticed no cleaning problems with my mid-'80s Frigidaire, which always surprised me given the lack of rollover.
Here's my story and I'm sticking to it:
1. The clothes near the agitator are getting action.
2. Those clothes are rubbing against the clothes in the middle of the tub.
3. Items in the outer ring are being scrubbed by the vertical tub vanes.
4. Indexing is forcing water through the fibers, removing soils.
Hey.....Maybe Maytag hit it on the head with their old slogan "We move water through the clothes, not clothes through the water."
Rollover? We don' need no steenking rollover!
Here's my story and I'm sticking to it:
1. The clothes near the agitator are getting action.
2. Those clothes are rubbing against the clothes in the middle of the tub.
3. Items in the outer ring are being scrubbed by the vertical tub vanes.
4. Indexing is forcing water through the fibers, removing soils.
Hey.....Maybe Maytag hit it on the head with their old slogan "We move water through the clothes, not clothes through the water."
Rollover? We don' need no steenking rollover!
There are 2 kinds of indexing:
Sympathetic: Due to something in the mechanics that PREVENTS the tub from being held in place, the tub turns on its own. Examples: Non-GE Hotpoints do this, as do new SQ (brakes need cleaning) and even orbital Maytags do a bit.
Mechanic: The machine is DESIGNED to index. Westinghouse, Franklin and their descendants were designed to index. I believe it is Robert that tells us every time the subject arises that Westinghouse and Franklin didn't put some kind of spring into the transmission that holds the tub in place when the agitator turns counterclockwise, but holds the tub firm when the agitator turns clockwise. This "design" then becomes a "marketing" opportunity...
Sympathetic: Due to something in the mechanics that PREVENTS the tub from being held in place, the tub turns on its own. Examples: Non-GE Hotpoints do this, as do new SQ (brakes need cleaning) and even orbital Maytags do a bit.
Mechanic: The machine is DESIGNED to index. Westinghouse, Franklin and their descendants were designed to index. I believe it is Robert that tells us every time the subject arises that Westinghouse and Franklin didn't put some kind of spring into the transmission that holds the tub in place when the agitator turns counterclockwise, but holds the tub firm when the agitator turns clockwise. This "design" then becomes a "marketing" opportunity...
The tub indexes during the clockwise stroke. It is still during the longer, counterclockwise stroke.
If you grab the agitator right as it's ready to begin the clockwise stroke, you can feel the power diminish and it somehow transfers to the tub, which begins whirling counterclockwise.
You can't stop the counterclockwise stroke of the agitator. It will rip your hand off.
If you grab the agitator right as it's ready to begin the clockwise stroke, you can feel the power diminish and it somehow transfers to the tub, which begins whirling counterclockwise.
You can't stop the counterclockwise stroke of the agitator. It will rip your hand off.
electron800
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2007
- Messages
- 252
I don't really have a clue about top loaders and their w
But I was wondering if there is any benefit of an indexing tub over a non-indexing tub? Or if it actually hinders the washing action?
Enquiring minds must know.
Matt
But I was wondering if there is any benefit of an indexing tub over a non-indexing tub? Or if it actually hinders the washing action?
Enquiring minds must know.
Matt
It hinders the washing action. If you grab and hold the tub so it can't index, there is double the amount of clothes rollover.
But it isn't half as fun to watch, which is all that's important, LOL.
But it isn't half as fun to watch, which is all that's important, LOL.
Well,
If you mold ribs into the tub, the tub does the washing! Thus, Frigidaire's Tri-Action Wash System or whatever it was billed as.
*tappita-tappita-tappita*
Thanks for the good explanation, Peter!
If you mold ribs into the tub, the tub does the washing! Thus, Frigidaire's Tri-Action Wash System or whatever it was billed as.
*tappita-tappita-tappita*
Thanks for the good explanation, Peter!
