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Ralph Nader didn't kill the Corvair....and you could ge

GM had already decided that there would be no more development on the Corvair past the second generartion of Corvairs introduced for the 1965 model year sometime in late 1963 or early 1964. GM's reason for this was because the Corvair had originally been introduced to do battle with the Valiant and Falcon but did not live up to the sales expectation of the GM brass. Originally the Corvair was offered as a 4 door in 500 and ritzier 700 trim. A coupe was add in May 1960 and a Station wagon and Corvair vans and Rampside Pickup were added for the 1961 model year and so was the bucket seated 900 Monza coupe.. By that time Chevy realized their compact was being badly outsold by the ultra conventional Falcon from Ford so they add their own conventional compact to the line in the form of the 1962 ChevyII. That is also why the Corvair lost its slow selling station wagon after the the 1962 model year and the vans and Rampside pickups were gone afther 1965 and why from 1962 on, with the addition of a convertible, the Corvair took on an image as a sporty, fun, yet economical car.

FYI..Ralph Naders book didn't come out until the 1965 models were already out. The problem he wrote about was the 1960 thru 1962 (possibly 1963) models penchant for having skiddish rear handling because of the lack of a rear anti sway bar. That problem was corrected by 1963 or 1964.

FYI#2 The original Beetle was offered with a true 3 speed automatic transmission starting in 1973 with the introduction of the fuel injected models (that coincided with the introduction of the first watercooled front engine VW to hit the American shores The VW Dasher). I know this for a fact as one of my neighbors ahs a white convertible with an auto trans and fuel injection from circa 1975.
 
1987 was thelast year for AMC cars

AMC lasted until 1987 when Chrysler bought them from Remault to get their hands on the Jeep brand. By that time all AMC was offering were Renault Alliances and Encores The Eagle 4X4 wagon (which had started life as the 1971 Hornet Sportabout in the fall of 1970) and the Jeep line which consisted of the Grand Wagoneer (whos body hadn't been altered excepting grilles and the like since its inroduction in the fall of 1962 as the 1963 Wagoneer) The Wagoneer and Cherroke (which were redesingned for the 1984 model year) and the Commanche pick (which was a truck version of the new Wagoneer/Cherroke design). When Chrysler bought AMC it was renamed the Jeep/Eagle division of Chrysler Corp.
 
VW automatic trnsmission

"The original Beetle was offered with a true 3 speed automatic transmission starting in 1973"

Are you sure? I thought Beetles never got anything more sophisticated than the "Automatic Stickshift" transmission right to the end of US sales
 
VW automatic trnsmission

"The original Beetle was offered with a true 3 speed automatic transmission starting in 1973"

Are you sure? I thought Beetles never got anything more sophisticated than the "Automatic Stickshift" transmission right to the end of US sales
 
Yes I am sure

My neighbors had one with an true auto trans. VW started offering them on the Fuel injected Beetles
 
huh?

I remember seeing their "autostick" which basically you didn't need a clutch, but you still had to shift.

The type 4's (squareback) had an aircooled engine with AC and true automatic transmission.

I've been into beetles for a while and I've never seen or heard of a true automatic transmission one. But there might have been prototypes or special editions floating around.

As for me, I don't like automatic tranny's. I like to shift.
 
You didn't havet o shift with the Autostick if you didn&

Jason have you ever seen a fuel injected Beetle...they do exsists as do fuel injected Microbuses, Fastbacks, Sqaurebacks, 412s, and Kahrman Ghias and all of these could be had with a true auto trans starting in 1973.The Autostick gets its name form the fact that you could shift it if you wanted to or put in any gear and let the car go. The Autostick shift didn't shift automatically but you could put it into first, second, or third gear and start from a stop and it wouldn't hurt the car it was just painfully slow. It was also reffered to in the sexist days of the late 1960's as a his and hers gearbox (his if you manually shifted, hers if you didn't) Oh and the Autostick did have a clutch but it was engaged by pushing down lightly on the gearshift lever. That in turn tripped a micro switch which disengaged the clutch when you shifted. This is why, by the way, you never rest your hand on the gear lever of on autostick Beetle (the clutch will keep engaging and disengaging if you doand that will cause premature failure of the clutch). Of course this was not a normal type of clutch bewcause of the fact that you could come to a complete stop with out disengaging it and not stall the engine. Of course Beetles were so slow anyway and the Autostick option amde it more so and that is why the Autostick option was not at all popular in this country. I have a Beetle shop manual by Chilton to back up this info as well as a neighbor who had a 1970 Beetle with Autostick who told me this as well.
FYI....The Fastback, Squareback, 411, and 412 were all based on the Beetle (the 411 and 412 were based on a stretched version but a version never the less)as was the Transporter, Microbus, and the Kahrman Ghia. Finally,I reiterrate ONLY THE FUEL INJECTED BEETLES FROM 1973 OR SO ON HAD A TRUE AUTO TRANS which their shared with the 412 and the Dasher and later on the Rabbit and Scirocco). With fuel injected Beetle engines VW at last used a true auto trans because the the extra oomph provided by the fuel injected engine would help copmpensate for the power sapping nature of the auto trans (remember this was in the day when auto trans weren't as effiecent as they are now).
FYI#2 1973 is when the Autostick option was dropped from the Beetle in the US (not sure about Europe or the rest of the world though).
 
Standard fan here too

I prefer a standard over an automatic. I like to be "doing" something when I'm driving. I'd only drive an automatic if it was in a luxury car or classic. We had a '74 Beetle from 1999-2001; it was actually made in Mexico but we didn't know it at the time; bought it from my aunt. Light and fun to drive (actually I didn't drive it but shifted from the front seat) but had the typical rusted floorboard problem and needed work. Easy to drive too...even if one didn't know how to use a stick they could still drive it. After this I wanted a standard when I started looking for a truck, but at the same time didn't want a BOL single-cab version which a standard usually came in. Finally found an F-150 XLT extended cab; it's a 5-speed and better than an automatic, but no sports car, LOL.

Our PT Cruiser is the TOL GT version with a turbocharger and Chrysler's "infamous" AutoStick feature. I think it's fun for an automatic because it will shift every 3000 RPMs, versus the 2000 in "Drive"; basically you can really "take off" in AutoStick mode. Ironically enough, the GT is not available in a standard...so you know what I use every time I drive it...

--Austin
 
I need to correct myself...

Fuel injection was not offered on the Beetle till 1975 and that wsa also the year they dropped the autostick option. Iam sorry I got my years mixed up. Also I found out from my friend who owned the Fuel injected Ghia I have ssen that he put a 76 Beetle engine in a 1973 Kahrman Ghia so seeing as the Ghia was last offered in 1974 (Kahrman in Italy stopped making the Ghia in 1974 to make room to bulid the 1975 Scirroco) the Ghia never came from the factory with Fuel injection. Sorry for my goofs.
 
FI Beetle

Yes, I've seen the beetles with FI. I just never saw the ones with true automatic.

1977 was the end of hardtop Beetles in America (replaced by the damn Rabbit :-( . And 1979 was the end of the convertibles. And 2003 was the end of it all. No more Old Beetles in Mexico. I've seen a 1996 Beetle and it is soooo sweet.

Turns out a bit of irony that my New Beetle is based on a Golf platform, aka the Rabbit.

Pat you know your VW's. That's a good thing.
 
OH NO!!!!! THE RABBIT KILLED THE BEETLE!!!!!

Jason you are correct sir when you state the Beetle was killed by the Rabbit (doesn't that sound like a story that might of happened if Alice had ened up in Hell instead of Wonderland LOL). With the intro of the Rabbit to the US for the 1975 model year the Beetle's fate was sealed but another reason for the discontinuation of the was because the Beetle enginge couldn't meet the stricter pollution laws that were about to go into effect here in this country.
 
nevertheless

The Corvair was still a great car, loads of fun, I did know 2 teens who experienced the problem and were killed tragically, and Ralph's book was written in 1967. The corvair was maybe a little too different like the betamax VCR and the GM Frigidaire washer. People like familiarity and that is a marketing point. I haven't had as much fun in a car or truck since my Corvair days. The closest was a BMW 528 5 speed. There are always going to be great ideas, but without the market they won't last. A lot of people also like mediocrity, simply not interested in anything but a plain old vanilla car or appliance.
 
Thanks appliguy and all

I just could not remember when AMC ceased to exist. Thank you for the input. Hope everyone had a nice weekend, .....and monday is over YAY.........
 
Stick vs automatic

Well, I have to counter here, I absolutely HATE stickshift cars with a passion. To me a stickshift in a modern car makes as much sense as building a new house and putting an outhouse in the backyard instead of a bathroom or remodeling your kitchen and putting in a wood burning cookstove instead of a range. The time has passed for stickshift. If I want to drive like Grandpa did, I'll go out and get a car like Grandpa drove, not a modern car. I like old things, but for me, there's a practical limit. To me, the convenience outweighs the dis-advantages(less performance, poorer gas mileage, though even THOSE issues have been addressed in modern automatics) I can drive a stick, but it gets on my nerves REAL fast. I don't like even being a passenger in a stickshift car, especially if the driver is agressive or downshifts coming to a stop so you feel like you're always landing in a plane. Gets very annoying having your head snap back and forth all the time. Most people really don't know how to drive a stick properly, and end up getting worse gas mileage than if it were an automatic. Plus, the potential for engine damage over the years is much greater since since it's easy to over-rev a stickshift car. I suppose if I lived in TX, MT, NE, KS or another of the "flat" states without a lot of traffic, I could deal. But driving a stick in a place like L.A. has me pissed off within about 10 minutes of driving. Screwing around with the parking brake trying to start on hills, tight parking places, or tight parking spaces ON hills is a pain-in-the-a**, too. Latly, to me, I have enough to do watching for other idiot drivers in traffic without having to worry what gear the car is in, it's another distraction I can do without. Whenever I'm forced to drive a stick, and then get back into my own car, I breath a sigh of relief as I drop it in "D" and step on the gas, no muss, no fuss.
 
I do like the idea of a constant velocity transmission, such as on scooters, some motorbikes and some cars like the Mini Cooper. The engine stays at a relative rpm while the car accelerates.

The performance isn't that great but it is an automatic and a unique way to get goin.

The mini cooper is one of the most AUTOMATIC cars there is. Automatic wipers, headlight, temp control, transmission. It's basically turn the key, select drive and go. Of course, the Escalade is pretty nice and has lots of automatic stuff but unaffordable for me.

Even if I had a Cooper with all the a-Mini-ties, I'd stick order one with a 5 speed.
 
I couldn't imagine Kenmore trying to drive a stickshift in that traffic mess out there...I couldn't imagine trying to drive out there period!! I occasionally end up for my job having to venture into the mayhem of Northern Virginia, and I'm sure glad my work van is not only huge, but has a big engine and transmission. It demands respect in that traffic up there, especially since it's got dents and dings all over it and looks like hell. No yuppie wants to even think about getting his new SUV close to that thing!!! I couldn't imagine living in a big city like that, dealing with all the expensive prices, sluggish traffic, etc, bad attitudes, bad customer service, etc. It tries my patience just going up there a few times a month!

At home though in Richmond, I've never personally owned an automatic vehicle. My first car was what was commonly referred to as the "Japanese Beetle", which was a 1978 Honda CVCC Civic. It was an air-cooled 1500 CC engine driving the front wheels through a 5 speed stickshift transmission, which was essentally two CBR750 motorcycle engines put together topped with their unique CVCC cylinder head design. This was the last year of the air cooled Civics before they went water cooled in 1979 and totally changed the transmission design, and enlarged the car overall (I imagine for the same reason VW stopped building air-cooled motors themselves) Driving that little car was like driving a go-kart. The car was tiny, with an optional back seat....you either carried 4 people, or 2 people and cargo. That little Civic was suprisingly fast, and had insanely tight handling. It had no problem plastering your shoulder against it's vinyl-covered cardboard door panels. In fact, in some aspects, I think that car handled better than the Saab 900 Turbo I currently own. The little motor would wind up and scream as it blasted you down the highway.

I always thought it was fun (and still do) when I get one of those impatient drivers on my bumper driving a big hulking sloppy vehicle right before I enter an interstate on-ramp. I would then crank the little car through the turn so hard it would make my face distort...the little car wouldn't even think about squealing a tire, I'd downshift at the end of the ramp, wind up the little motor, and already be at the posted speed well before I'd even touch the main road. The impatient driver a long ways back! Of course the impatient driver would eventually catch back up and pass me out on the interstate, but by that time they weren't a problem anymore cuz they could pass me without tailgating.
 
Parking brake

I find the parking brake a nuisance, but it is necessary in some situations. 99.9% of the time I just leave it into 1st without having to set the brake; it doesn't even think about rolling. I guess in a small car there's probably a better chance of it slooowly coasting forward or backward, but in my truck I have no problem.

The only time I use it is for parking on and starting from really steep hills. Other than that I hardly touch it.
 
I always set the brake when I park. Just habit I guess. I just hate it when I go to start the car and it starts rolling. I'm pretty anal about putting the car in neutral and reasing the clutch when idling.

I want my Beetle to last a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

Starting from a hill is easy. I don't use the brake handle, I find the friction zone (where the clutch starts to touch the engine, apply throttle and slowly release. I can feel and hear what the car is doing.
 
Reading these several stories on sticks, Karmen Ghias, Mazdas reminded me of my own driving experiences.

A friend in high school had a new '73 Ghia convertible and tried to teach me how to shift. A complete and total failure! I was driving that tank of a 69 LTD by then and couldn't coordinate the clutch in his car, almost taking out a picnic area at the local park we were driving in. In our drivers ed class we learned on gigantic Oldsmobile 88s, all automatic.

Fast forward about 20 years, I started a business and driving my old 74 Fleetwood Talisman...a 4 seater Cadillac, just made for a couple of years, wasn't practical. I had to do a lot of in town driving. I bought a used 1979 Mazda RZ7 with a stick. I had the previous owner drive it home for me. After a couple of days, on a quiet Sunday morning, I got the nerve to drive the car.

After stalling it a couple of times, off I went. And I didn't do too bad! Of course, I later found out, the Mazda's rotary engine was trashed, it leaked oil like crazy as the seals were shot, the distributor shaft was bent, backfired almost every time I shifted. But with a little work, I nursed it along for a couple of years. It was just a fun car to drive. It even survived Phoenix's record heat one summer. I think it was 123 or 125 degrees that day.
 
Starting on hills

"Starting from a hill is easy. I don't use the brake handle, I find the friction zone (where the clutch starts to touch the engine, apply throttle and slowly release."

That takes a certain "touch" which some of us never can master. Usually the car starts to roll backward a little while one is searching for that "friction zone". That's OK if there's nobody right on your a** on the hill. If one tries to find the zone too fast, and it's not done *just* right, then there's either stall out, or a jerky, head-snapping start. The other thing I didn't mention before is the inconsistency between cars with sticks. Every manual trans car has a different "feel" as to how soon the clutch engages, the effort needed to dis-engage the clutch, the "throw" of the clutch, the "notchiness" and length of the gear lever throw. This is in addition to getting used to the differences in feel of the brakes and steering that's differnet from car to car. I re-iterate, stickshift car=outdated pain-in-the-butt (and neck).
 
Don't think that places like Florida and Texas are easy places for standard shift automobiles.

As teenagers, my sister and I each had 1965 Mustangs. My sister's was a three-speed. One day she parked it in a very flat parking lot, but forgot to set the emergency brake. Oops....it rolled back and ran into another car. So much for Miami having flat terrain.

As for Texas.....when I first moved here I had a 1973 Volvo 4-speed. OMG....the biggest torture of my life! Traffic was so awful that my left leg resembled that of a speed skater! I don't think I ever got out of first speed! Did I mention that the Volvo had no AC? A second no-no in Texas. Of course I had to endure the hottest summer on record (over 100 degrees for a week) with a non-air conditioned, four-speed car, panty hose, and a business suit. It took me 45 minutes to drive nine miles. By the time I got home I was ready to pack it up and move to Alaska.

I still like standards though. Here in a small town they are way more practical. I do, however, agree with Jaune about driving a standard in heavy traffic. It is a real pain (literally and figuratively). :-0
 
Venus

"Of course I had to endure the hottest summer on record (over 100 degrees for a week) with a non-air conditioned, four-speed car, panty hose, and a business suit."

Aren't you glad you're a stay-at-home mom now? :-D

Much better huh?
 
I've never even attempted to drive a stick shift (I am my mother's child, automatic all the way). The first car I ever drove was my mom's 1979 Ford LTD. It was cobalt blue, 20 feet long, and had a very strange sort of power steering. The wheel didn't feel like it was hooked to anything, so there was no sense of the tires on the road. The LTD lasted until I was sixteen, when Mom took me out for a driving lesson...which ended when I hit an embankment at 40 mph.
 
It took me a couple of weeks of jumping, peeling out, and stalling to re-learn a standard, and I was really thinking about going back to an automatic. However, I easily and quickly found the "friction zone"...and still laugh when the "automatic parents" have to move my truck for some reason. Revving, bouncing up the driveway, you name it, which is why 99% of the time I'm the only one who drives it, to save the clutch!!!
 
Automatic who?

Austin....

Oh pleeeeeeeeaaaaaassssseeeee....I was driving a stick shift before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye (Corvette, Triumph Stag, Beetle, Volvo, 280ZX)! ;-)
 
Learning stick

HA!, you learned on that MODERN stuff. *I* learned on the old-timey three-on-tree with a clutch that challenged your leg muscles and had what seemed like a foot-long "throw". This was in a 1963 Chevy pickup with 6 cylinder.
 
Jaune

1963 Chevy pickup with 6 cylinder-I can still hear that beautiful stright six engine whine in second gear. Learned stick on a 59 Chevy Belair-columm shift-on a 4 door hardtop;strange combination indeed. Can still hear that 6.
 
Pardon the ramble...

Ironrite, you had a Talisman?!

For those who don't know, this was the top of the line Fleetwood, offered from '74-76. Longest non-limo, most luxurious post-war auto. And '74 was the only year that it was a 4-seater, with posh crushed velvet, plus a lighted center console in the front with flip-up notepad and pen, and a console in the rear as well.

Sink into the driver's seat, telescope the wheel, fingertip adjust the seating position, mirrors and windows, put in the 8-track, set your desired temp on the climate control, pull that gear shift down to D and engage the cruise!
 
Yes, it was a Talisman! And to add to that glamour, the car had its original paint in Terra Cotta Firemist, with a white vinyl top and dealer added landau bars. The interior was done in yards of Medici Velour, in matching terra cotta. The original pens were gone, but it came with Cross pen and pencil, which I replaced.

Mine also had the optional anti lock brakes. If memory serves me, I think they only acted on the rear wheels of the car. If I can find a picture of the beast I'll post it.

My favorite, of all the old Caddy's I've owned, was a 1966 Fleetwood Brougham. In the late 80's that car took me across country from San Francisco to New York City twice, with just basic oil changes and tune ups. Now that one that the walnut trimmed doors and the fold up writting tables in the back.
 
PIMPIN!

I did a search on the caddy Talisman. Wow what a car! My dad had a 78 Coupe De Ville for a short while. It was neat with all the buttons, the climate control and yes, the 8 track player! Woohoo!
 
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