Virginia Tech. Massacre

[lederstiefel1]

amok

Well, maybe that many of you believe I'm mad as well or sick or rude or have no soul....maybe you are right..!?
I'm absolute not shocked nor am I upset about what has happened there. The only thing I can say, and I do not mean this exclusively for the States, as we had such a desaster in Germany twice as well: Societies get what they deserve!

What I want to say is just as simple as one plus one is two.

Just leaving all that emotional reactions away and have a look on what has taken place quite logically:
There was a person which was once born as an innocent baby (OK, one could argue that maybe the genes were a bit more sensible or a bit more aggressive to those of other people, but everybody has individual genes - there's nobody twice on this world up to date - and under normal conditions this person would probably have been, say, a good football-player or a good workers council) but than SOMETHING went wrong during his life-way.... and that is something that is brought to an individuum by the surrounding environment, the society in which the person is situated. Modern mad societies just produce these kind of monsters themselves! I don't want to put the finger on all those aspects which are constantly going wrong in our modern societies - all of you can numerate hundreds, I'm sure.
If you look back in history you'll find cases the same like this one, but in the old days no-one was there to stop those poeple as they mostly sat in positions of the rulers. Think of Vlad Tepec in Romania, Nero in Rome, or Hitler in Germany, Stalin in Russia... The row could be nearly endlessly adjusted, couldn't it?
So, I stopped once mourning and said to myself: that's what we get for what we've provoked! Shame on us!

And the reason is quite simple: stress - nothing more and nothing less! Eu-stress and dis-stress - both are equally bad in overdoses as nowadays.
The amount of stress in societies what we call "modern" (what is modern?) is too much for beings like the human - we are not made for that! Fexibility - a good thing actually - but over-flexibility as today's daily business hasn't anything to do with being flexible any more, it is pure deracination! We want the quadrature of the circle: a social human being that is totally flexible; like a green chair that is coloured red! Social behaviour is tremendously important for societies as it is the basement of interacting between the individuals. This behaviour is fixed to special regulations, called rules, which allow each individual to act without leaving the whole context of the group/race. Total flexibility means all but social behaviour - it is made for solitaires! The human race is an animal or species that developped as a gregarius animal not as lone fighter - everything that distinguishes us from the other animals we reached only because we are the most social animal on this planet. There would be no society and no technical development of the human society left if we were solitaire animals like snakes, slugs, or flies!

Think of it!!

Ralf

 

[dalangdon]

I don't mind if people have guns, but I don't think they are as effective as people say. In a crisis like that, or the Libby Shooting or Columbine, etc, most people will freeze up or freak out - thus adding to the carnage and confusion if, for instance, they start firing indiscriminately. It's one thing to boast, it's quite another thing to act appropriately in a situation like that.

What I wish we had in this country was a healthier attitude towards mental health issues. This guy was nuts. His professors and fellow students knew it. Granted, he was a "loner", but if someone could have refered him to a doctor for some help, or if that help were readily available, he might have been able to control his urges. But we - as a society - have a stigma against seeking out that kind of help. Many insurance plans won't even cover it, and that means we have a lot of untreated people out there. Granted, they're not all killers, but they don't make life any better for anyone, including themselves.

 

[runematic]

dalangdon, I agree this was definitely a mental health issue. This was a very troubled person.

I do not see how more gun control laws would've helped in this situation. He was bent on doing evil. The gun is what he chose as his method, but if he didn't have that, I feel he would've used a knife, bat, or some other weapon. This guy was going to kill people regardless of his weapon of choice.

I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Do I carry? Not usually. Really the only time I'm packing is when I'm heading out into the deep woods. I also like to take the revolver along when I go to the remote camp I belong to. I'm out in the boonies with no other cabin close, so I like to have some protection there.

This is not the time to begin a rational debate. Emotions are high Families & friends need to mourn & greive their loved ones. I feel for those folks.

 

[hoover1060]

just my 2 cents

The whole thing is a head scratcher for me, as here we have a young man who was obviously disturbed, and now floods of people coming forward about his "troubled loner" personality.
Nobody thought of reaching out to him?
I feel sorry for everyone affected by this tragedy. I really do. But all the finger pointing and airing of this kid's troubles is NOT going to help anyone make sense of WHY this happened.
Stricter gun control laws would not have prevented it. The kid chose his path, and was going to do his damage, one way or another.
When I was 19 years old I was robbed at gunpoint in an elevator by two 16 year old kids. I know what it feels like to have a loaded gun pointed at your face.
I am all for very strict gun control.
I also can't fault the University for not going into lockdown mode after the first shooting. The powers that be did what they thought best, and given the number of students/faculty/staff shutting down would have been a huge if not impossible task, not to mention the potential panic and hysteria this could have caused. They did what they thought best.
What makes me saddest of all is how events like this change our world and us as people. Pretty soon there will be no place left where we can feel safe.
We'll always be looking over our shoulders waiting for something bad to happen

 

[bosch2460]

I live less than 2 hours away from VT, and I happen to work for a huge college in my town (James Madison University). You can't even imagine the uproar it caused at work on Monday and Tuesday. Students were still freaked out, knowing it could have just as easily been our campus. We never, ever have drills, etc for anything to prepare students for this type of thing. We do have a lot of foreign students as well, ones who arent even citizens. I guess you cant ever know, yet you cant judge certain students by one bad example. Try to tell that to 18-20 year old students. I work in a building where the walls are made of huge panes of glass. There is no protection, the doors are open to the building from 6am until 11 or 12 at night. There are times when I am the only one in the building (I am catering manager, so my hours suck). In all reality, with all that glass, there is no way to hide quickly or be protected from much of anything. Lockdown in my building would be horrible, considering there are more than 15 entrances, and each door must be locked individually. I know the entire campus took a moment of silence yesterday at 2pm. We all feel their loss. However, now its put Administration into action, and they want to prepare students and staff for these situations now. Too bad it takes a huge tragedy to wake up an entire campus. Hindsight is always 20/20, of course. I also happen to know that right now in VA, all colleges are open and touring potential students, in huge groups. I am sure enrollment is going to drop for VT now, as well. Its a shame that it took one sick individual to do so much damage. One of the victims lived less than 5 miles from me, although I didnt know them personally. According to what I have heard, the way that he killed his victims, was they way the Koreans used to do it during the war. I forget the term for it, but to put it briefly, it consisted of locking the building down yourself, killing all that you can, and then finishing yourself off. He was definitely one f****ed up individual.

 

[panthera]

better to just mourn first

I understand why this debate has kicked up once again, but, gosh, shouldn't we be putting our thoughts right now into the families and friends - and survivors - of this horror?
There will be time enough for us to carry on the never-ending discussion on guns.
Regardless of which side one is (and don't anybody think they know how I feel about it, you might be surprised), the time right now is better spent on grieving and helping.
In a week's time, I will add my own thoughts here. Until then, let us hope there may be no further deaths.

 

[sudsman]

buying guns

I don t know how it is other places but her at the mexican flea markets guns of any type can be purchased , all you need is cash.. Hand guns , Shotguns you name it its there... I have seen the police there a number of times and they walk by and look and do nothing... This is the kind of thing that should be stopped...

 

[launderess]

Ok, Now I Am Getting Really Mad

It appears this nut was out mailing a package to NBC news, which arrived earlier today, during the time between the two shootings. If this is true the second slaughter may have been prevented, should LE shut down the campus and looked for this varmit.

L.

 

[JerseyMike]

Now I'm really mad ...

This latest news about the package that was mailed to NBC shows that much of this tragedy could have been prevented.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread:

"A very good friend's daughter is a student there. (She's a senior.) The good news is that she was home for the weekend. She answered the phone on the first ring when I called to find out if she was o.k. She sounded hysterical. The bad news is that her boyfriend was shot. He's in the hospital and they have no idea as to the extent of his injuries."

Sadly, it turns out that he was one of the people who were killed. His death and the deaths and injuries at the site of the second shooting could have been prevented!

I haven't spoken to my friend since before Jeremy's death was confirmed. Their cell phone voice mail boxes are full and their landline is either busy (they have call waiting!) or rings incessantly. There really are no words. I still haven't been able to find a suitable sympathy card. (Sigh)

The link will take you to Jeremy's memorial tribute. I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but I've watched Alexis grow up into a beautiful young lady. My heart goes out to her and to everyone else who was affected by this tragedy.

Mike



http://www.roanoke.com/vtvictims/wb/113504

 

[~sudsshane]

Mike(JerseyMike)

You and your friends daughter Alexis, will most certainly be in my thoughts.There are really no words that will help ease the pain, but knowing there are others such as myself that grieve with you and your friends family will help somewhat. As a survivor of homicide,(My brother was murdered in 1992), I would encourage Alexis and those close to Jeremy to seek out a support group(When things calm down). It was extremely helpful to me and my family. People don't understand the grief,anger and sense of loss when a loved one is lost to homicide. People in these groups do and it gives you a safe,secure place to show your feelings with others who truly understand how you feel. The loss of Jeremy will always be there, but in time Alexis will heal. Please feel free if any of you need support or any help, to send me an email to me..Please let Alexis know that as well.

Many blessings your way
Shane

 

[Cybrvanr]

I was in Charlottesville today, Home of University of Virginia. Now, even someone that eschews watching sports as much as myself even knows that UVA and VA Tech are arch rivals on the field. Yet, despite this, UVA students and other Charlottesville residents were wearing more Tech stuff than you'd imagine. The campus was a sea of burgandy and gold!

 

[scott55405]

This is such a horrible tragedy for all of us. When you read the victims' profiles and see their pictures, it really brings it home.

Apparently he must have included a series of self pictures in the package he sent to NBC which the LA Times has taken to posting ad nauseum on their front web page. I almost jumped once as the one picture makes it look like a gun is being pointed right in your face, even though it's a picture. This is helping how exactly?

 

[brettsomers]

This is helping how exactly?

this type of tragedy is TVs stock in trade. advertisers are loving this. cha-ching! human suffering as money maker. yes, i am cynical.

 

[DADoES]

Media ratings.

 

[panthera]

Brett, you ain't cynical

just right.
I read that Max Karson, a student at CU (Boulder, Colorado) has once again seen an opportunity for self-aggrandizement. This time by exploiting this horrid massacre to proclaim in one of his university courses that the "unpainted walls and fluorescent lighting" made him angry enough to want to kill people, too.
Now, a more subtle university administration would have admonished the young man to show more respect for the suffering and loss which so very many have suffered and are suffering, then just left it at that and ignored him.
Of course, the oh-so-politically-correct admin. at CU knee-jerked, called the cops, had him arrested on vague charges of frightening students at an American school (one of those hysterical laws which are possible only in post-911 America...)and now he has the tempest-in-a-teapot which he so desperately seeks.
At last report, the ACLU was up in arms and outraged that such a fundamental right as freedom of speech could be so blatantly abrogated...
Sheesh.
Whatever one's personal political reflex here, I think we need to all just take a while to digest this. And maybe reflect on the poor folks who have lost their loved ones.

 

[twinniefan]

mental illness

This horror reflects the consequences of mental illness,this type of illness really is the scourge of society as it just works away on it's victim slowly but surely turning what may at first be thought to be a normal rational human being into a
horrible monster, capable of the most evil depravity.
Surely all governments of all civilised nations must put a hellluva lot more resources into more research and treatments for this problem.
These poor people just doing what they do every weekday and then just like that, murdered in cold blood.
As for gun laws, well I don't really know the answer to that one, you see here in Australia, we have quite strict laws and controls regarding guns, and yet gun crime seems to be out of control particularly in parts of Sydney.
Sympathy and wishes to all involved.
Steve.

 

[tolivac]

the incident was horrible-but like many ohter posters feel more gun laws will not solve the problem and may even make it worse.Also when I bought some guns in Va-It is a myth that a twelve year old could buy a gun there-In ALL states a firearm purchasher must be at least 18years old for a long arm and 21 for a handgun.You also have to fill out the BATF 4311 form.This is required for all dealer firearms sales.I have had to fill out many of these.Private sales are a diffrent matter-but the seller could be held for a federal firearms violation if he did purposely sell to a minor and a crime was involved.This did happen in the Columbine shooting.One of the sellers did go to prison for that-a firearms violation.The purpitrator in the above incident was a very troubled person.His instructors pointed this out to school officials about some of his class asingments he handed in to his social studies and english instructors.Why didn't the school officals take action?this would have been a start.Geez-I can remember when I attended college if you were of age-most everyone was-you could bring your long arm to school for (shotguns and rifles) for Duck,Pheasent,and deer hunting.The guns were kept in a safe in the dorm that the dorm parents had the keys to-you could keep other valueables in the safe as well.I and other folks hunted after class many times without problems-No one at that school ever had any thoughts about shooting another person at the school.Guess those days are over!Oh yes-you can use AK's and SKS ,FN "Assault" weapons for Deer hunting provided you used a 5 round magazine to meet federal and state laws.I know of another person who hunts elk with his FN rifle-.308 cal-on elk.Very effective-like any other rifle you have to aim for the right place-to properly use a rifle requires SKILL that many people don't have.I don't have all the details on the incident-A Glock handgun was involved-many police departments and FBI use these-and many sportsman as well.The glock is just that a handgun.What its fate really is is determined by the person holding it.And yes Glocks are used for target sports and even small game and pest shooting-and of course personel defense.The Glock-like any other handgun- has MANY leginimate uses.

 

[brettsomers]

some background from AP...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

 

[maytagbear]

I am very sad for those

who died or were injured. Also their loved ones. Very sad.

However, please, please remember that there are levels of mental illness, and that many people with diagnosed mental illness are NOT violent at all! Or, no more violent than people without diagnosed mental illness.

It is easy to say "why didn't the administration...."
He was referred to the mental health services, but you can't force an adult to go, without legal action.

Human behaviour is one of the most, if not the most, complex issue in the known universe.

It's tempting to look for easy answers, but I don't think there are any easy answers in this case.

Most college students are legally adults, even though emotionally they are often younger than adults.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[petek]

The worst part is now we have endless days of CNN parading out grieving families and friends. Not to mention conjecturist extraordinaire Dr. Sanjay Gupta who in true CNN fashion can parlay a simple response into a 10 minute diatribe before he's finished and Wolf moves on for more re-hashes of the same videos and interviews once again before ushering in Lou Dobbs all a mind-boggled with his take and re-hashes of the same videos and interviews which only gets you warmed up for Larry King to do it all again.