Volksgate: The Volkswagen 'scandal'

[lordkenmore]

>But what they do well is brilliant. And one of the most important aspects of their driving dynamics, grabbing onto the road and hunkering down into it, is unmatched and what keeps me coming back. That seems to be elusive to everyone else.

That's true, and that's what sold me once. The other vehicle was more practical with cargo space, but the VW drove better. Figuring that cargo space wasn't necessarily regularly, and something that drove well would be appreciated every day, I went with the VW.

However, I wouldn't say "elusive to everyone else." The best driving car I ever drove was, I think, a Mazda Miata (first generation). Although that Miata did have the benefit of an owner who had taken the time and energy to learn the car, and use that information for how he maintained it. For example, the tires were very carefully chosen, not the sale special of the week. I think the Miata remains my "dream" car for driving, but hugely impractical given the lack of space.

 

[rp2813]

Everything Has Its Price

As has been stated above, VW and Audi handling characteristics are the primary selling point for many buyers.  I've been among them since the mid '80s.  Between Dave and I, we've owned a 1980 Audi 4000, a 1976 Audi Fox wagon, a 1985 Audi 5000 wagon, a 1978 Audi Fox sedan (body and undercarriage were tight as a drum when handed off to Dave's daughter with 150K on it -- no other car I've ever owned comes even close), a 1988 Audi 80, a 1996 Passat GR6 wagon, a 1997 Passat GR6 wagon, and a 2006 Audi AllRoad.

 

All of those cars handled beautifully, and since we made weekly trips (on average) over the twisty and often treacherous (due to varying factors) four lane mountain highway to Santa Cruz, handling was top priority.  When I was commuting 45 miles each way over hills in the other direction, the '97 Passat wagon made it a breeze at 65 MPH or (often) faster.

 

Some of these cars had their quirks, and some had expensive repairs, but maintenance and repairs on German cars have been notoriously expensive ever since they started exporting them to the U.S.  You know what you're signing up for when you sign the sales contract.

 

We know people who have owned Japanese vehicles that rarely, if ever need anything besides routine maintenance, but we were willing to deal with repair costs in exchange for the safety and sure-footed mountain road handling that could make the difference between avoiding an accident or road hazard and ending up with both us and the car seriously maimed.

 

What VW has done is scandalous, but I'll bet they're only the first to get caught.  The corporate world is an unscrupulous one, and integrity is a thing of the past.  I think VW will survive this, but their TDIs may not.

 

Meanwhile, I'm hoping I'll still be driving by the time I can afford a used Tesla.

 

 

 

[washer111]

Its a shame that we have come to a point where emissions testing is too stringent for cars.

That said, I doubt it would be hard to the respective government agencies to acquire technical information on the computers of these vehicles, and use it to circumvent this sort of stupidity. If VW can program in "knowledge" of what an EPA/ISO testing environment is, then they are program against it. 

 

The fact that we now need "exhaust additives" even to meet emissions testing is somewhat beyond belief. Just another product to sell, and cost for the consumer. 

 

With where things are at, it may well be time to consider looking at other places to restrict pollution on. Or, revisit alternate propulsion methods like the Chrysler Turbine-Car. 

 

Personally, I would defend some Euro cars (the older ones) and not so much the newer ones. They are not Toyotas, in that you can never spend a dime in 100K and still expect it to work like new. These cars are produced with the reasonable expectation that they will be maintained. And if used as intended, they tend not to be unreliable hunks. HOWEVER, preventative maintenance is the key - it saves design flaws of various types manifesting, and thus protects you in the long run (i.e. BMW cooling systems in the 1990s). 

 

[arbilab]

Sorry Jamiel, but you misstated the proportions. The truck fleet belches (conservatively) a MILLION times the pollutants of the VW passenger fleet. That's the environmental equivalent of divorcing your wife because she farts after dinner, when you live next door to a cattle feedlot.

I'm not defending VW-AG. If you gave me the most elaborate German car I would sell it, buy 3 Toyotas, and hire the Rolling Stones for a free concert in Cowboy/AT&T stadium. But the media 'gasp' number of 40x is absolutely meaningless in light of what a single jet airliner or coal powerplant dumps into the atmosphere.

Speaking of cattle feedlots, that's where urea comes from. Most road diesels use it. It's an upkeep annoyance keeping the reservoir full of cowpiss. But in light of overall diesel operations it's not an 'expense'. Stuff like this requires PERSPECTIVE to evaluate, which you definitely will NOT get from media.

 

[richnz]

I too wonder if this problem affects the other diesel makers

Especially those with the urea injection.
Am I wrong in that the VW engines which don't meet the emission standard are the AdBlue engines.
This came from Mercedes right? Other users are Audi (Which are in the same hole) and so I wonder how Mercedes and BMW TDI engines will face too.

I did wonder also why Toyota didn't embrace the whole diesel power movement.
Perhaps they couldn't get the emissions right or just the noise of the diesel motor turned them right off.

I don't imagine VW going broke over this. A friend has Golf TDI and boy does it have a heap of shove at low rpm. The DSG gearbox is another highlight and the quality of the interior!

 

[washer111]

Toyota Diesel

Aside from their Land-Cruiser Station Wagons and "Troop-Carriers," there are none. 

 

I think the large issue is they never really had any other diesel than the (anemic) 2.8D and TD used in the Hilux and very early Toyota Camry.

There has apparently been issues with oil consumption on their V8 Diesel, and they had issues implementing a stick-shift to the V8 diesel too. 

 

The other thing is their Petrol engines are already very low maintenance, and reasonably frugal too. The cost of Diesel, at least in Australia is about 2-3c/L more expensive. So the vehicle must be even more frugal to compensate! 

 

[askolover]

I'm glad my VW diesel is an 01 model so it's not affected. I have over 200k miles on it with zero trouble other than maintenance items. Hope to get 200k more before it dies. Still gets 50mpg too! But, I probably won't get another one...with the addition of computers to the diesel engines and emission controls, they don't really get that much better than an economical gasoline car. I'm a commuter so I don't need anything large or extremely powerful. I'm sad that they tried this stupid stunt though.

 

[mieleforever]

Well they designed the DSG so..

anything is possible. I had the 2011 Euro Passat with DSG box, and I can honestly say it is a box of crap!! They had to change the cluth system two times in the two year period that we had it, first one on 25000 km, next one on 55 000 km, and it would have gone for its third replacement on about 75 000km but I sold the car to a dealership. I suspect if there would one day be an inquiry into the DSG box it would be the end of VW. It was the worst experience going to the dealship and trying to explain to these numnuts how the box stall's, shudders violently, disengages whle driving and being hesitant when pulling away, unless you floor it.

It was an enless battle with the service advisor, even after VW did recalls in China, and the rest of the world. They kept saying to me that this car has the best gearbox in the world, I just don't know how to drive it propperly!!

Well this blind justice if ever there is such a thing, I really don't wish any bad luck on anybody but this company is the worst to deal with and they denied everything.

So to VW you had this coming for a while now, get your act together, stop trying to be the biggest vehichle manufacturer and concentrate on your core business building reliable cars.

I hope that this will be a lesson for all of the big companies out there. Listen to your buyers/supporters.

CHeers all

 

[petek]

Things could get worse

Hints of a second possible coverup on VW 's 2016 models 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business...ons-tool-in-2016-cars-is-separate-from-defeat

 

[arbilab]

N-N-N-n-n-noooooo!

Catalyst preheat is NOT a cheat. Catalysts don't do squat until they get hot. Cold catalysts are what is in EVERY car since ~1975. Many city trips-- like me driving 2 miles to Kroger-- never get the catalyst hot enough to do ANYthing. Preheating makes them effective right away.

What this issue reveals is the fact that regulators don't know their ass from a golfcourse about the engineering they're supposed to be regulating. And worse, that media just sucks up their sensationist/alarmist crap and spits it back out without so much as running it by someone who actually KNOWS something. Umm, by now we're supposed to KNOW that about both regulators and media but apparently we need a few more lessons.

Guess who licenses DSG/dual-clutch transmission designs. Borg-Warner USA. As in, Norge. Also as in, every Ford automatic from the 50s through the 60s and possibly beyond (I don't know the exact cutoff). I don't see an obvious problem with the concept but evidently there IS a problem with the execution if it fails every 25,000km. Which is ~15,000 miles or a near-average year's worth of use.

 

[lordkenmore]

I don't have the knowledge to comment about emmision systems, regulations, etc...

That said, it's been my understanding that the catalytic converter needs to be hot to work. Years back, I had to take a very marginal car in for my state's emission test. A mechanic basically said to drive it a long distance to get everything warmed up. And then go to the testing station. If I had to wait at the station, he said keep the engine running, and keep your foot on the gas to have the RPMs above idle--other wise, you run the risk of the catalytic converter cooling enough to fail the test. I did that last thing, even though the wait wasn't long, and the tester was cranky, asking if the engine could idle at the usual speed. If not, it was an automatic fail. I said yes, but it was going to idle this fast while waiting for you to do the test. The car--even though it was a falling apart wreck with nearly 300,000 miles--passed with amazingly good numbers.

Another tip the mechanic had: go in early in the day if possible. Apparently, there have been some test failures due to tailpipe sensing equipment getting dirty during the day.

Of course, I think on newer vehicles they test by connecting to the vehicles computer. The last car I took in--the one I mentioned above--was too old, and since that time, I've moved over the line to an area where testing is not needed.

 

[whirlcool]

While I haven't met a whole lot of people who drive Audi's, the ones I have met have all said they were the worst cars they ever owned. They all had the same reason too, the cars were in the shop more often than they were at home. And most repair bills for Audi are above $2K. The service manager told one of my friends "if you buy an expensive car, you have to learn how to pay to service that expensive car."

Back in the mid 90's VW had some kind of argument in Germany about it's diesel engines. The end result was that an additional filter or something like that needed to be installed in the exhaust to make them meet standards. The same VW being sold here in the U.S. did not have that filter system.

Heck as far back as 2001 even the manager of one of VW's largest US regions agreed that the quality was gone. Market share is the new game in town.

And VW is definitely trying to move more upscale. Anyone remember the ill fated VW Phaeteon from a few years back? $80K for a VW?

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/08/best-vw-phaeton-description-ever-nicest.html

 

[askolover]

Phaeton

And now that same Phaeton is the Audi A8L and Bentley!

 

[toploader55]

Excellent Video.

 

I love it.

 

I saw a Phaeton once. And only Once.  It turned my head.  I thought it was a beautiful car. I knew nothing about them and never saw another after that.

 

At that time I didn't know what the word Phaeton meant.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaethon