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Wrong. My AWN542 does not have a control board anywhere

- Seriously, I'm not going to mention every discontinued model Speed queen made. The Awn432 is the only mechanical control model available to buy new.

Wrong again. Even the transmission is cheaper than a control board on a new FL or HE TL

- Are you a technician? I am, and have been for the last 15 years. Control boards vary in price, but most are right around the $200 price retail. A speed queen trans (38165P) retails for $330. Trans replacement REQUIRES a $100 tub seal too.

If this were true, then manufacturers would have offered machines like this years ago, not due to ill conceived DOE mandates.

-Its called progress. Just like cars used to get 3 miles to the gallon, and broke down every other day. Things become more efficient.

Odd. Until recent years, there was never a need for "customer education" on how to use a washing machine. Sounds more like a design problem to me. Reminds me of the ill fated Fiero where GM "educated" customers that 3 quarts of oil in the Iron Puke engine was ok when in fact it was designed for 5 quarts.

- Until recent years, washers used 40 gallons of water, facilitating the need for outrageous amounts of soap. When you add too much soap to an efficient washer, it becomes gunked up. If you put 10x, or 20X the recommended amount of soap in your antique washer, would clean well?

Just to be clear, I absolutely love speed queen products. I own the top load 9 series, and the front load set. I am an authorized speed queen dealer, as well as authorized to service them. Speed queen is a very, very reliable washer/ dryer that does just a GOOD job washing clothes. Its the best machine on the market in terms of reliability, and warranty, but I can't say its the best performer out there.
 
"Not exactly true. Timers are expensive, the transmission is a small fortune, in fact, there are not very many "cheap" parts on a speed queen."

Sounds like the point is being missed. Those parts will last 20 to 30 years unlike most other modern machines so price becomes irrelevant. On a modern machine where those parts will fail one after another after only 3-5 years the high cost becomes a major factor needing consideration. BTW, the timer, belt ect is cheaper than the control boards on many modern front loads...

Speed Queen is now refereed to as a "Luxury" brand where just 30 years ago any American could walk into any store and purchase the same construction if not better. A low income family could purchase a dirt cheap Galaxy or Filter Flo and have it last as long as a modern Speed Queen will. This is a classic example of the declining middle class. People are told less is more, more is bad, evil, uneducated, not good for the environment ect ect.
 
"-Its called progress. Just like cars used to get 3 miles to the gallon, and broke down every other day. Things become more efficient."

Progress is just a feel good term, one which I see it for what it is. Cars use more gas today on average than they did in the 50s and 60s. While gas motors have become more efficient the cars themselves have become a lot larger. Families went from Chevy Impalas to decked out climate controlled mini vans.

And the longevity you mention. That was in the 1900s. The cars in the 50s and 60s did not break down every other day with care.

"Just to be clear, I absolutely love speed queen products. I own the top load 9 series, and the front load set. I am an authorized speed queen dealer, as well as authorized to service them. Speed queen is a very, very reliable washer/ dryer that does just a GOOD job washing clothes. Its the best machine on the market in terms of reliability, and warranty, but I can't say its the best performer out there."

And the best performer is? I going to be honest. I see many knowledgeable sales men and appliance techs, but when it comes to selling appliances I see a what looks like a pre written script. I've been in stores where I see appliance sales people push HE machines or insist the customer they will be happier with TOL giving each one the same speech. Its almost as though customers who refuse to buy HE or the status quo are somehow doing something socially unacceptable. The truth is consumers are just being toyed with and punished at no fault of their own. Ok, I get saving water. But why remove every soft food disposal out of every DW with a manual clean filter? The point voyager system and the re-designed low water version after that (the one I have on my DW) works very will with food particles while saving water. So what was the point to remove that from every new Whirlpool made DW while customers everywhere are being told its better?
 
Just another frontloader versus toploader discussion. These discussions have never lead anywhere because one is not perse better than the other, it depends on a lot of circumstances. To each his own plays a big role here.

Chetlaham,

You appear very in favour of Speed Queen toploaders, but I noticed that your profile says that Miele is your favourite appliance brand. Funny!
 
Miele

It was until I discovered Speed Queen. When you take Speed Queen out of the equation all thats left in the US is Bosch and Miele in terms of passable modern quality. I should have put none for modern brands but I still like to think things haven't gotten that bad. But my favorite brand of all time would be Maytag.

I have nothing against front loads washers, I've used several and when washing normal day to day items with light soil they do indeed save water. But, when it comes to durability (and perhaps even clean ability) IMHO top load and front load Speed Queens out do any modern US or European washer.
 
Well we are WAY off topic here but I saw this...

"Cars use more gas today on average than they did in the 50s and 60s."

Ummm please cite your factual evidence to back this claim up. I'd bet that the average today is quite a bit better.

Sure some late models could be huge and heavy but if we compare 50's apples to modern day apples the cars today are VASTLY more fuel efficient. And in every other performance metric they are superior too. The reliability claims are laughable, my 6 year old Honda has yet to go in for ANY service (other then maintenance fluid changes I have done myself). How many sets of points and plugs would a 50's car have needed in 6 years? Vintage cars are cool in their own ways, but automotive progress has made a LOT of distance in the past 60 years.

Back to appliances, the same is true. Personal preference will play a big part in the comments you read here and in reviews. Top loading machines use more water and they have more complex and expensive parts and in general will require more service. Overall they lack the progress in evolution that has brought us to the mechanically simple front load machines. Really the only reason that toploaders exist today is due to personal preferences and people's inertia towards change. There are many frontload fans that have made the needed adjustments to their laundry methods and they would not go back. Clearly the machine style isn't at fault.
 
well

i for one owned a duet set & almost danced the happy dance when they went out the door & would never look back (had them for 8 yrs.) back to low tech.old school top loaders & never been happier !OH YA & CLEAN CLOTHS TO BOOT.
 
You'll notice I stayed out of the discussion in the latter part of this thread. I tend to give Ben a fair amount of leeway in the 'SQ vs. Other Brands' debates, considering his position as Patronus Absolutus of all things Speed Queen; and frankly, there's a lot to love about the brand. I do try to gently remind him that some things, like global warming, are matters of science, not politics---just as the whole 'smoking causes lung cancer and heart disease' argument came down to science and not politics. But he still smokes, so there's work to be done. Hi, Ben! 😘😎

On To Other Matters: Let's sort out the notion that cars from the 1960's can compete with today's in the mileage department right here, right now.

Average MPG of a 1965 Chevy Impala: 13.5
Average MPG of a 2016 Dodge Grand Caravan: 21

(Mileage figures courtesy of Fuelly)

[this post was last edited: 8/8/2016-13:22]
 
Hi Frig!

FWIW, since the tobaccakuh tax went up in PA, you will be pleased to know I am in the process of winding down and ultimately quitting smoking!

With the money I will save, it will like getting a pay raise. I'll have more money to spend on seed, fertilizer, and bug killer! In the fullness of time, I will have a yard worth of BEtter Homes & Gardens!

And I can go back to trying different detergents and seeing which work best in the Speed Queen!
 
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Sounds like the point is being missed. Those parts will last 20 to 30 years unlike most other modern machines so price becomes irrelevant. On a modern machine where those parts will fail one after another after only 3-5 years the high cost becomes a major factor needing consideration. BTW, the timer, belt ect is cheaper than the control boards on many modern front loads... 

 

This statement is false as well.   I will say, the transmission will last likely 30 years, as long as it never gets wet.  Timers fail, and they fail at a much higher rate than controls.   Id bet you a dollar that the failure rate of Speed queen's timers vs. their electronic controls is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 to 1.  As in they will see 100 mechanical timer failures before they see 1 electronic control failure.   Further, timers cost around $100, and I've seen some as high as $200.  They are definitely not cheap.   You are right, Speed Queen belts are cheaper than LG front load belts. ;)
 
<a style="font-family: -webkit-standard; font-weight: normal; background-color: #ccffff;" name="start_66566.892997"></a>

Progress is just a feel good term, one which I see it for what it is. Cars use more gas today on average than they did in the 50s and 60s. While gas motors have become more efficient the cars themselves have become a lot larger. Families went from Chevy Impalas to decked out climate controlled mini vans. 

 

This statement has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard.  If you truly believe this, then there is no point having any type of conversation with you.  Please click the EDIT button and delete it.  Internet lurkers will stumble upon this site and read something like this.  It will completely invalidate all the good information on this website ,and make all of  us on here looks like a bunch of  crazies. 

And the longevity you mention. That was in the 1900s. The cars in the 50s and 60s did not break down every other day with care.  


 

Cars even through the early 90's required oil every 3k, spark plugs every 5k, Trans fluid flush every 30k.  All that and the car was essentially scrap at 100k miles.  My last ford truck went 138k on the original spark plugs. (2004 model). 

 

And the best performer is?

 

At the moment the Koreans are holding that trophy. 

 

 
 
"This statement is false as well. I will say, the transmission will last likely 30 years, as long as it never gets wet. Timers fail, and they fail at a much higher rate than controls. Id bet you a dollar that the failure rate of Speed queen's timers vs. their electronic controls is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 to 1. As in they will see 100 mechanical timer failures before they see 1 electronic control failure. Further, timers cost around $100, and I've seen some as high as $200. They are definitely not cheap. You are right, Speed Queen belts are cheaper than LG front load belts. ;)"

Ahh, Speed Queen to Speed Queen. Lets see a Speed Queen next to an LG, Frigidaire or Whirlpool... And yes I know timers cost $100. Control boards... a bit higher. And when it comes to DW things like this were unheard of with mechanical controls:

http://www.kitchenaidfire.com/p53.html

"This statement has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. If you truly believe this, then there is no point having any type of conversation with you. Please click the EDIT button and delete it. Internet lurkers will stumble upon this site and read something like this. It will completely invalidate all the good information on this website ,and make all of us on here looks like a bunch of crazies."

You are acting like you know nothing about politics or the real world. How many times have you heard the word progress only to see something become a total wreck? Its best not go further as it will derail the thread... but Id like more substance rather than empty disparaging.

"Cars even through the early 90's required oil every 3k, spark plugs every 5k, Trans fluid flush every 30k. All that and the car was essentially scrap at 100k miles. My last ford truck went 138k on the original spark plugs. (2004 model).



At the moment the Koreans are holding that trophy."

No matter what, modern machines will not last 30 years with daily use. It just isn't going to happen.
 
 
<blockquote>No matter what, modern machines will not last 30 years with daily use. It just isn't going to happen.</blockquote> Beginning at what year of market or production is considered a modern appliance?[this post was last edited: 8/9/2016-03:36]
 
 
Beginning 2006, then.  No repairs of any kind for 30 years is the target performance criteria?  No belt replacements, no water valves, no pumps, etc.?
 
 
<blockquote>Place bets on a Belt Driven Whirlpool/Maytag/Filter Flo vs anything none Speed Queen. You tell me what will cost more to maintain in that period of time. What will last before needing any part changed?</blockquote> Compare classic belt-drive Whirlpool of 1986 and earlier, Filter-Flo, and/or helical-drive Maytag to anything "modern" that's non-Speed Queen for a period of 30-years use?
 
From a real world experience as a service technician i am in about 150 homes each month. I see very few appliances that are 10 or more years old. And I am talking about all the appliances in the home not just what I am repairing. When I first started in 1990 I was repairing appliances in the 15 to 20+ years. Now more than 75% each day are no more than 5. I'm not claiming this to be a scientific study just what I see every day. So without any doubt something has changed. But I think that several reasons are involved in people's decisions to replace much more often than in the past. Focusing only on washers since that is the topic of this thread most people are hesitant to exceed $300 in repairs. On modern high efficiency models (FL or TL) a bearing or board failure will usually exceed what the customer will pay. Very often the customer will state that " I really never liked this washer anyway so I'll just get a new one". We can argue that the customer just isn't educated in how to use modern machines but my real world experience is that people are often unsatisfied with performance. High eff machines have been around a long time now so how long is it supposed to take for people to "learn" how to use them. How do you explain the quick rise in Speed Queen sales. 10 years ago very few people ever heard the name. They are selling $900 basic TL washers in a world where much less can buy a much fancier machine. Remember that in the entire market SQ sales are still a small part of the total but I am amazed at how many I see out in the field. Ask yourself the question if the public is so happy with HE machines why are major manufactures placing so much emphasis lately on how much water they use as opposed to how much they save. Is there a current Whirlpool TL product that doesn't have a "deep water wash"? Much of the in store promotional material focuses on more and more water. They must be hearing or feeling something from the consumer.
 
"Compare classic belt-drive Whirlpool of 1986 and earlier, Filter-Flo, and/or helical-drive Maytag to anything "modern" that's non-Speed Queen for a period of 30-years use?"

Yes. The modern guys will start falling apart by 5-8 years, the rest at 12 minimum, 15, 20, 30.
 
"The only machine that I think has a fighting chance of going 30 years with NO repair is the Dependable care (Newton) maytag. Even that is a stretch"

Excluding the basics like a belt, the chance is very good and I know of family owned Maytag dealers who can say the same. I am not talking about small repairs and never have been, but rather pricey ones or major over hauls.

"From a real world experience as a service technician i am in about 150 homes each month. I see very few appliances that are 10 or more years old. And I am talking about all the appliances in the home not just what I am repairing. When I first started in 1990 I was repairing appliances in the 15 to 20+ years. Now more than 75% each day are no more than 5. I'm not claiming this to be a scientific study just what I see every day. So without any doubt something has changed."

Id say its three things:

1. All the machines capable of surviving 20 years have hit their end of life. Longevity peaked in the 70s and 80s IMHO, on average through the industry. So if you had a 1989 machine that could go 20 years in 2016 it would already be 27 years old.

2. When something minor does fail like a motor coupler, the trend is to replace it.

3. People are tossing about perfectly good appliances in the name of energy efficiency. I know of plenty of folks who got rid of their perfectly good DD to get a front load or impeller.

"But I think that several reasons are involved in people's decisions to replace much more often than in the past. Focusing only on washers since that is the topic of this thread most people are hesitant to exceed $300 in repairs. On modern high efficiency models (FL or TL) a bearing or board failure will usually exceed what the customer will pay. Very often the customer will state that " I really never liked this washer anyway so I'll just get a new one". We can argue that the customer just isn't educated in how to use modern machines but my real world experience is that people are often unsatisfied with performance."

I agree with everything you said here. Yes part is of it mis-use, but lets face it:
you will never mimic a front load with an impeller and US front loads themselves are still evolving. While smaller, European front loads are light years ahead of the game, as well as their detergents. Our detergents are still stuck in the top load arena and are being minimally modified to fit front load nitch.

"High eff machines have been around a long time now so how long is it supposed to take for people to "learn" how to use them. How do you explain the quick rise in Speed Queen sales. 10 years ago very few people ever heard the name. They are selling $900 basic TL washers in a world where much less can buy a much fancier machine. Remember that in the entire market SQ sales are still a small part of the total but I am amazed at how many I see out in the field. Ask yourself the question if the public is so happy with HE machines why are major manufactures placing so much emphasis lately on how much water they use as opposed to how much they save. Is there a current Whirlpool TL product that doesn't have a "deep water wash"? Much of the in store promotional material focuses on more and more water. They must be hearing or feeling something from the consumer."

Because customers are being mislead, abused and manipulated by our government and the manufactures that bend over in submission. Water saving and electricity usage isn't about the environment, its about not having to upgrade a 100 year old infrastructure. One must ask how come America, the most powerful, educated and resourceful country on earth for decades choose top loads over front loads when the technology was in place for both. I know I will get flack for saying this, but Id go on a limb and say Europe went with front loads due to minimal infrastructure, economic and raw material resources which has plagued them for decades. For example, after WWII the UK started to use ring mains for their power sockets. Not because ring mains are somehow superior, but because they saved on copper. The UK had a massive material resource shortage after WII necessitating savings over all else, where as the US could built cities and not blink an eye. In fact in the 60s and 70s many US sky scrappers did not even have switches because electricity was so cheap. If we invested in our best minds and built more of what we lack water, electricity and the rest would practically be free at no cost to the environment.
 
 
The 1962 Whirlpool toploader that "grew-up" my family was replaced at 15 years and had *many* repairs during that time.  Belt, wig-wag, brush filter deteriorated, pump leak, water valve flood, mercury lid switch bracket rusted off, motor centrifugal start switch sticking, bakelite agitator cracked, centerpost bearings & spin tube replaced.  The bearings were bad again which is what led to the machine being retired.

It's 7 years older than the 2006 "modern" trigger-point ... but my 1999 Fisher & Paykel (with three computer boards) has had only the pump replaced in 2011.  It was handed-down to the grandmother, then sister, now nephew is using it.
 
Threads on this website have become nothing more than glorified conservative vs. progressive political debates. If I wanted to see people who deny that climate change is real, deny that water and energy consumption IS an issue, and claim that anything "new" or "modern" is bad and a "conspiracy against good ol' Americans" and a piece of junk, I'd go to Facebook. There's plenty of that there with Trump supporters and republicans running amok.

It seems one can't even come to AW anymore without the constant battle between the Speed Queen extremists and everyone else. I thought the intent of the Deluxe forum was to be able to talk about new machines in peace without a decades old washing machine with a primitive single-post agitator and spin drain being crammed down our throats. If the Speed Queen design is your cup of tea, that's completely your right and your opinion, but it's been proven countless times in countless ways why there are modern front loaders AND top loaders that run absolute circles around them, in cleaning performance, capacity, and resource efficiency. It has been tested, the numbers are on paper. Let. It. Rest.
 

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