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"Threads on this website have become nothing more than glorified conservative vs. progressive political debates. If I wanted to see people who deny that climate change is real, deny that water and energy consumption IS an issue, and claim that anything "new" or "modern" is bad and a "conspiracy against good ol' Americans" and a piece of junk, I'd go to Facebook. There's plenty of that there with Trump supporters and republicans running amok."

If climate change really was an issue we would not have disposable machines. It takes energy to manufacture, recycle and transport all which in itself creates tremendous green house gas. Its facts like this which raise red flags for anyone logically analyzing this blindly touted claim.

"It seems one can't even come to AW anymore without the constant battle between the Speed Queen extremists and everyone else. I thought the intent of the Deluxe forum was to be able to talk about new machines in peace without a decades old washing machine with a primitive single-post agitator and spin drain being crammed down our throats. If the Speed Queen design is your cup of tea, that's completely your right and your opinion, but it's been proven countless times in countless ways why there are modern front loaders AND top loaders that run absolute circles around them, in cleaning performance, capacity, and resource efficiency."

Nothing wrong with a healthy debate. IF I see any incorrect information I will challenge it, its how forums work.

"It has been tested, the numbers are on paper. Let. It. Rest."

By people putting detergent in the fabric softener dispenser.

"Can you believe it?

Argues for a washer design 3 or 4 times older then me, but in a way that not even I would resort to if I knew I was wrong.

And anybody who knows my posts here just a little knows I hate to be wrong."

Its all trivial until you can explain to me how a Euro washer happens to be larger than a Speed Queen.
 
Global warming has no politics; it's science. It is occurring whether you watch FOX news or MSNBC.

This is the same argument we used to get about smoking. Science pointed out that it caused lung and heart disease, but the holdouts argued well into the 1980s that claiming tobacco use was detrimental to health was just a bunch of nonsense perpetrated by pinko-commie fairy progressives who wanted to destroy the American way of life.

Guess what? Science was right. Smokers died in droves of lung cancer, emphysema, strokes and heart attacks regardless of their political leanings.

The argument over seat belts a few decades ago played out the same way. Science was right. Many lives were lost unnecessarily because some people chose not to use them. Didn't matter if they were liberals or conservatives, rednecks or faggots.

Global warming isn't trivial. Grousing about whether a Euro washer can match the capacity of a top-loading Speed Queen is trivial.

Science and technology brought you the miracles of modern medicine as well as the internet you seem to enjoy using as much as the Millenials you disparage.

Mtn1584: Fifth grade called; it wants its schoolyard taunt back. And yes, it called on a cellphone.

[this post was last edited: 8/9/2016-15:38]
 
"Global warming has no politics; it's science. It is occurring whether you watch FOX news or MSNBC."

The science can not even agree to what degree its happening or if its man made or part of a natural cycle. Google the studies, they are all over the place.



"This is the same argument we used to get about smoking. Science pointed out that it caused lung and heart disease, but the holdouts argued well into the 1980s that claiming tobacco use was detrimental to health was just a bunch of nonsense by the pinko/commie/fairy/anti-American progressives.

Guess what? Science was right. Smokers died of lung cancer, strokes and heart attacks regardless of their political leanings.

The argument over seat belts a few decades ago played out the same way. Science was right. Many lives were lost unnecessarily because some people chose not to use them. Didn't matter they were liberal, conservative, rednecks or faggots."

It goes both ways. There were doctors and people who said cigarettes were dangerous and they were called conspiracy theorists. The tobacco companies did everything to slander these people in order to keep their myths alive.

"One

Global warming isn't trivial."

Of course its not trivial. But manufactures seem to make it so with disposable appliances. Every machine purchased in the name of water savings is a money scored.

"Grousing about whether a Euro washer can match the capacity of a top-loading Speed Queen is trivial."

I made a claim, I was shown facts and was rightfully proven wrong. Thats how it works. Yet I keep hearing this claim that Euro washers hold more clothes than a Speed Queen yet so far no one here has shown me any evidence to back up that up.

"Science and technology brought you the miracles of modern medicine as well as the internet you seem to enjoy using as much as the Millenials you disparage."

I never said science and technology does not. But who is to stop someone from hijacking it for their own gain? Any corporation can make a claim and back it up with bogus science. How many products have turned out to be a complete fraud or snake oil?
 
I can only speak for the Dutch market. According to the Dutch consumer organisation there are 135 washers with a capacity over 8kg available. And there are 133 washers with a smaller capacity available. Given the fact that the Speed Queen rating is 7.5 kg, the conclusion must be that the Speed Queen rating is below average. Brand that sell 8kg+ machines are AEG, Alluxe, Asko, Bauknecht, Beko, Bosch, Candy, Daewoo, Electrolux, Haier, Hoover, Indesit, LG, Miele, Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Siemens, Whirlpool and Zanussi.
 
Frig,

Do you need a Kleenex too?

This post was about washers until someone brought politics and global warming up!

Sorry buddy, life experience counts for something.

The website is called "automatic washer" not political views 101.

If you can't take the heat get out of the laundry room.

I'll argue back and forth about washers and performance and yeah I love being a smart ass, but I'm not
going to argue about politics or discuss my political point of view.

Again, do YOU need a tissue too?
 
Nothing that I said in my reply was intended to be political but it seems that to some people anything said that isn't inline with there belief becomes political. Reply #57 starts off complaining that everything is political but ends by saying that modern machines run circles around the older (i.e. SQ) machines and it's on paper so leave it alone. In other words don't annoy me by saying what I don't believe. Furthermore EVERYONE should be forced to use and accept what I believe is best. Well how about this. Since some believe that an old style (high water use) washer is harmful enough to the environment that I should not be allowed to have one. I believe that the frequent replacement of the modern machines is equally harmful to the the environment. So if you want this type of machine you have to agree to keep it for 20 years no matter what. I know that sounds ridiculous but I think it's ridiculous that I am told that I can't use more of something if I am willing to pay for it.
 
Go easy on Frig please

Recall he was on PODS for a while despite my warnings and postings that one day he would wake up ...............changed.

But! He came back around and joined back up with his liquid loving comrades!

Trivial? Try this one on for size

Do I mix 4.45 lbs of Kentucky bluegrass with my 25lbs of 4 variety tall fescue or do I mix 7.55 lbs of bluegrass with 15 lbs of fescue? or should I just say ____ it and put in Astroturf and spend my remaining days riding a 24HP lawn mower to buy lottery tickets?

Do I grow a pair tomorrow and put the rider up on ramps and attempt to remove 3 blades and see if my Chinese grinder can put an edge back on them or do I try to find some more Coke de Mexico as I have one bottle left?

Or should I invest in a go-pro cam of sorts so I can film myself mowing my yard and put it up on YouTube along with my Speed Queen vids and my non union Goodman AC vid?

Or do I check my email on my day off so I am not inundated with 357 emails on Thursday that will take me 3.5 hours to sift through, think through, and reply to?

Or do I ask Frig for his addy and take some of my 9.5 vacation days left and go visit him and see how his FL machines work? Or do I invite him here to my place where he can hear me ramble on about copper coils vs microchannel trickle down vs trickle up and help me sort out my Lawrence Welk collection?

Or I could ping Moparwash and see if he knows of a classic car show someplace and meet up and discuss how AMC would have fared had George Romney not left and put Roy Abernethy in charge? Or how Duncan McRae should have been tarred and feathered for giving us the infamous "Packardbakers"?

Or I could ask Jetcone if I can come to his place so I can see a solid tub Speed Queen featuring the famous Arc-Cuate 210 transmission in action along with the superlative fluid drive carrying the freight?

Frig and others are well aware of where I stand on certain things. I haven't moved much on those stances and they know it and they are good with it. So am I.

I did admit once that if, God forbid, my beloved SQ went missing, I would scream, curse, get on Prozac or something, smoke like a freight train, curse the world...............then I'd go down to my local SQ dealer and get the FL SQ and be done with it.

One thing, I will NEVER backslide to PODS! I just can't! I HAVE to use them for the Frigidaire DW as that is pretty much all that works in the darn thing but that is IT! Never a POD in the SQ! Never!
 
I don`t take the kg ratings of a washer too seriously. You can gain quite a few more kg`s in a FL just by extending wash times. That`s exactly what many European manufacturers have done over the last years to increase "capacity" while keeping the small standart cabinets.
Correct me if I`m wrong but I *think* my tiny 5 kg Miele is rated at 6,5 kg for the Autralien market. Not so much difference to a 7,5 kg Speed Queen.
From personal experience they can both handle an equal amount of laundry but the FLs clean better, are easier on clothes and most importantly easier on the environment.

Admittedly when using a Laundromat in the States I always look out for toploaders, preferably Speed Queens because they are a nice change from what I`m used to and they`re fun to use. (And I hate the larger capacity DD Whirlpools for beating clothes to a premature death)

[this post was last edited: 8/10/2016-05:12]
 
Not to jump into this debate late

Which by the way seems to be turning into a night with the Krup family. *LOL*

Comparing capacity between an H-axis washer and top loading with a central beater is simply not fair.

Without a central beater tubs of H-axis washing machines *can* often hold *and* wash far more items (or item in the case of bulky things) better.

Thing vary by beater design but am sure we all have seen videos of top loading washers on Youtube. Some TLs move water through the laundry, others move/pull/jerk/drag laundry through water. Some top loaders gave excellent roll over and movement of laundry round, up and down; others simply seemed to beat things closest to the agitator to death while those on the outside of load barely moved.

The two types of machines clean laundry by different methods. To each his or her own long as they are happy with the results, that's what I say.

Will say that with a good quality H-Axis washer, one that uses enough water to get the job done, TL units cannot touch them for capacity and cleaning results, IMHO.

Washing machines of same vintage as my older Miele advised users to pack them full (within the rated load amount) as the machine could handle.

At first glance you'd swear this woman was overloading washer. But once the load is good and wet there is plenty of room for washing and rinsing action to happen.



Now here is a SQ washer some claim is overloaded:



Now here is an older SQ laundromat top loader. Notice the sheets have wrapped around the agitator and IMHO taking a beating instead of moving about.

 
Thanks for weighing in with video examples, Launderess. Extra credit for you, my dear. We hit a deer coming home from a gig last night and I am ridonkulously hung-over, but here's my two cents:

 

 > I can't believe anyone would think the new Speed Queen is overloaded.  Items are moving easily through the water.  In fact, several more items could have been added to the load. The Surgilator-like agitator really does a great job.

 

> While the solid tub machine is my 'soft spot' favorite in the SQ lineage for several reasons, I've always felt its agitation was noticeably less efficient than, say, Kenmores, Whirlpools, or Frigidaires of the same time period. A commercial SQ of this vintage was in the laundry room of an apartment building I lived in.  Loads made up primarily of shirts, shorts, kitchen whites, bath linens, etc., rolled over better than the load of sheets shown above, but the agitator used these days definitely takes the checkered flag.
 
tangled sheets,

but better than torn corner seams like I get now with my h.e. top loader. I wash them on hand wash cycle also. Agitate slow, then soak. Maybe it was the quality of the 800 thread count cotton?
 
If by "HE Top Loader"

You mean one of those machines with an impeller, that could be the problem. *LOL*

Impeller/disks have been promoted as a substitute for central beaters going way back; leave us just say they haven't quite fulfilled their promise.

Think Maytag's "Gyrofoam" action and a few other agitators were better with sheets. Know my Whirlpool portable didn't do well with crisp percales. Things always wound around the agitator and or got air bubbles.
 
I agree that you can load a front load more, and that its more tolerant of overloading, but for day to day house hold items a Speed Queen is big enough giving excellent turn over. I still don't get the cleanabilty argument. With enough detergent and turn over a TL should clean like a US front load.
 
WASHING PERFORMANCE FL vs. TRADITIONAL TL: Here's how the deck is stacked in favor of HE front-loaders.

1. The same amount of detergent (usually a dose for a medium-sized load) washes in a far stronger concentration in an HE front-loader compared to a traditional 'vintage' top-loader.

2. The wash portion of the cycle is generally much longer on an HE front-loader. When I choose the Normal cycle, maximum soil level on the Maytag 8100, I get around 45 minutes of wash time. The Kenmore I grew up with had a maximum wash time of 12 minutes. My SQ AWN542 had a maximum wash time in that same neighborhood.

Consumer Reports tests all machines using the Normal cycle with its longest wash time in 75-degree (F) water. Of course the HE front-loader with a 45 minute wash tumble is going to trump a Speed Queen washing for 14 minutes.  And the detergent solution in the front-loader is around 4-5 times stronger, to boot. 

 

I'm always amazed that people get upset when they see a Samsung, LG, or Maytag front-loader outscore a SQ top-loader.  There's nothing wrong with the SQ.  It's simply fighting an uphill battle against machines that wash longer, wash with a far greater concentration of detergent, have more capacity, spin clothes drier, and use considerably less water (especially hot water) and energy.

 

If I used one-fifth of the detergent and limited wash time to 12 minutes, my Maytag wouldn't score as well as it does in testing.

 

 I use the Normal cycle, medium soil (20-minute wash time; total cycle time of 45 minutes) for most loads and the results are great. With a 1400 rpm final spin speed (which I now use for everything but delicate items) the reduced time in the dryer makes up for the longer cycle time.

 

Again, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a Speed Queen top-loader.  The deck is simply stacked against it when it comes to performance in cleaning, spinning, capacity, and water/energy use compared to an HE front-loader.

 

Ben, on the other hand, points to SQ's country of manufacture, warranty, build-quality, shorter cycle time, and potential longevity. He's also not fond of 'clean machine' cycles and electronic controls (although I'm sure SQ uses commercial-quality electronics on their new line). In those areas, SQ trumps (Jesus, why do I keep using that word?!) most other brands.

[this post was last edited: 8/10/2016-13:01]
 
I think the operator of that machine has selected a second rinse option or some other addition to the cycle. Using the normal wash cycle with a single full tub rinse my SQ takes approximately 37 minutes from start to finish, including fill times.
 
To be fair, most HE frontloaders use two rinses, as less water is used for each compared to the single deep rinse of a traditional top-loader. Adding an extra rinse on the Maytag 8100 provides three.

Magic Minute: From the videos I've seen, the tub is nearly three-fourths full of water when the Magic starts. Not as concentrated as a front-loader; water continues to be added, so any concentration is short-lived. Fun to watch, but I question how much it actually improves cleaning.

New SQ Line: That really is a sleek, elegant-looking console.[this post was last edited: 8/10/2016-17:50]
 
Will say this

Almost since they arrived on the scene commercial laundries in both Europe and North America used H-Axis washing machines. Only laundromats and other places where consumers did their washing used top loaders in the USA historically. Now even that has largely come to an end.

Going back to the early 1900's Hurley Machine Company advertised that their Thor Cylinder washing machine (a domestic version of larger washers found in commercial use) not only cleaned better but was more gentle on laundry versus other models of washing machines. Maytag made a small top opening H-Axis washing machine also in the early part of last century. They bragged that the "millrace" principle of washing got all laundry cleaner from the heaviest to most dainty textiles without damage.

Detergents for top loading washing machines are called "high dilution" for a reason. They are meant to work in the relatively large volume of water used in such machines. This explains why you cannot use such products (normally) in H-Axis washing machines. There is too little water to reach the proper dilution ratios amounts of detergent needed for good results. You *can* try using less but that often and usually does lead to problems down the line.

Vintage detergents one has a problem with in the Miele or AEG (Biz, older versions of Tide, etc..) clean and rinse quite well when used say when doing laundry in the bathtub or other similar large vessel. Biz in particular can take ages to rinse out in a front loader, not so otherwise.

The fact commercial laundries almost exclusively use H-axis washing machines should tell you something. It just simply is a superior way of doing laundry (especially large amounts) with less damge to clothing.

Americans who have gone from top loaders to front are often amazed they don't need all that pre-treating, soaking and so forth as often the case with top loaders, and their wash comes out quite clean. Because H-Axis washing on principle flexes textiles it makes for better breaking up of stains and soils. With top loading washers this will vary by agitator design, but IMHO none will do the job same as an H-Axis washer.
 
The results are in...

.
4.9 SCORE TESTED BY EXPERTS
The Speed Queen AWNE92SP113TW is better than 2% of the washing machines we tested.
It is better than 1% of the washing machines we have tested under $1,000.
It is better than 1% of the top-loading washing machines we have tested.

They conclude:

It doesn't clean as well as a more modern machine, and it's not as efficient as the best front-loaders, but that flashy new washer also won't have Speed Queen's five-year warranty or commercial design.
We can't recommend that tradeoff, which explains why this machine gets such a low score. That's because our priorities are stain removal, fabric handling, and efficiency. If your priorities are a long warranty and commercial-grade durability, however, the Speed Queen AWNE92SP113TW may be worth a look.

http://laundry.reviewed.com/content/speed-queen-awne92sp113tw-washing-machine-review
stricklybojack-2016081019291701753_1.jpg

stricklybojack-2016081019291701753_2.jpg

stricklybojack-2016081019291701753_3.jpg
 
Think what many are forgetting

Is how laundry was traditionally done when using even wringer washers, that is before fully automatic top loaders came along.

When washing was done by hand, and or using say a conventional washer there was a whole lot of prep work before the actual washing began.

First stains were treated for removal. Then came a pre-wash or soak (white, badly soiled or stained, etc...), finally would come the main wash followed by one, two or even three rinses.

As top loading automatics took over with their supposed promise of faster/load and go laundry days many of the old ways were discarded.

Here is a video from a past Wash-In showing members putting a Maytag wringer washer through its paces. You can hear someone say "these towels are still dirty....". Proving even with that washer's famous "Gyrafoam" action that could not be sufficient to remove all soiling. Now I know what you are going to say; well just leave things in the wash longer. Well yes, suppose you *could* do that, but if you were a housewife in the 1940's or 1950's with several more loads to get done along with God knows how many other household chores, leaving one load to wash for hours on end likely wasn't on.



From one looking a possibly nabbing a wringer washer to speed though large loads of linens, it would be for just that; doing wash that isn't badly stained/soiled and only needs average washing. Anything badly stained or dirty will continue going into the Miele or AEG.
 

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