Wash water temperature for front loading washers

[jhducote]

I am hoping to find someone who can help with a technical question as I search for a new front loading washer.

I currently own a Miele Novotronic W1926 and find it
to be an excellent performer. The only drawback is the
size of the tub. I am considering the purchase of a
machine with a larger tub (3.8-4.0 ft.3) for use in
another location. One of the features of the Miele
which I really like is that it heats the wash water to
the selected water temperature. Even the cold water
wash cycles heat the water to a defined temperature of
85°F. The wash water temperature is always as
prescribed regardless of the incoming water
temperature or the size of the load.

Here's my question. Which other large drum front
loading washing machines have this feature? I am
considering LG, Whirlpool, and Kenmore, all highly
recommended by Consumer Reports. They all claim to
have automatic temperature control, but I do not know
if this means: a) the temperature of the incoming
water is monitored to provide the correct temperature
of incoming water or b) that the wash water is
subsequently heated via an internal water heater to a
defined temperature. Heating the water after the
tumbling action has begun will accommodate for
differences in incoming water temperatures and/or the
size of loads. Larger loads will extract more heat
from the water once the "cool" fabrics are wetted.

Any information that you are able to share on this topic will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.
John. (Oakland, CA)

 

[passatdoc]

Automatic temperature control vs. on-board heater

Automatic temperature control does NOT mean that the washer has an on-board heater. Automatic temperature control means that the washer is able to mix incoming hot and cold water sources to attain a temperature as close as possible to desirable. For example, if hot water is limited (due to other competing applications or large distance from heater to washer), the incoming "hot" valve is opened wider.

Normally, in a washer without auto temp control, the washer either accepts only the hot water intake for "hot", a fixed proportion of hot and cold intakes for "warm", and only cold water intake for "cold". Another advantage of ATC is when the cold water intake is REALLY cold (e.g. winter in cold climates), some warm water can be added to the intake rather than strictly cold to attain a more reasonable wash temperature.

Your Miele may well be mixing the intakes to attain a wash temperature of 85 F. I.e., it may be the automatic temperature control that's doing the work, rather than the onboard heater. The heater usually kicks in only when a wash temperature is specified that is higher than the incoming hot water intake temperature (a function of your house water heater's settings and whether there are competing applications---i.e. if someone is taking a shower, or if the dishwasher is run at the same time, etc.). In such cases, just like a dishwasher, the on-board heater will heat the water if the hot water intake temperature is not enough.

It is not uncommon for mid-range units to have automatic temperature control without the on-board heater. An example is the Frigidaire 2940. The lower-end 2140 has neither feature. Some of their higher end (7000 series) units have both the heater and auto temp control. The same exists for Whirlpool: only the higher end models have the heater, and in general it's used for the sanitary cycle where very hot temperatures (hotter than the house water heater is set to deliver) are needed.

The odd thing is that virtually ALL dishwashers have on-board heaters, even at the low price range, while with washers the same feature is touted as a luxury feature and is offered only on the higher end, higher priced models.

 

[launderess]

IIRC, only the large Bosch/Siemans washers and the Miele will use their internal heaters to heat/boost water temps to reach the set or proper wash temperature for each cycle. Allother American domestic front loader use some sort of ATC, and if they do have an internal heater it does not work on all cycles.

One thing to find out is weather or not any washer you are interested in will hold the cycle until water temp is reached or will the timer "time out", and let the cycle advance regardless. Being all domestic large front loaders are on 120V power, there is an obvious limit on their heating power. Some persons over on THS have tested their large LG washers, and most all reported none ever reached the set temp for the "sanitise" cycle.

 

[jhducote]

Water Temperature Control (continued)

Hello NYC,
Thank you for the reply. It was very helpful. I am new to this group and am amazed at the amount of information available.

Interestingly when I called LG to find out if the SteamWasher would heat water to a prescribed temperature, I was eventually told that it would on all cycles for all temperatures including warm and cold. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information on the web about this. Does anyone in this group know the real story?

I called Whirlpool, and they told me that the Duet washer has ATC, but its internal (on-board) heater is only used to boost hot water temperature for the sanitary (whitest whites) cycle.

My Miele stops the timer and actively heats the water to the prescribed temperature as needed before proceeding on any cycle and for any defined temperature. Does any other larger capacity (3.8-4.0 cu.ft.) front loader do this? I think that Miele also has ATC because it does seem to mix hot and cold water during initial fill in differing proportions depending on the temperature of the incoming water on a given day.

I wish the new 4.0 cu.ft. Miele's were stackable; alas, they are not. I called Miele to ask if they would have a stackable 4.0 anytime soon, and I was told that it was not currently planned.
Thanks again for the info.
Oaktown John.

P.S. What is THS?

 

[rp2813]

I just had a full size Duet pair delivered several weeks ago (First generation? They are the "gay" looking ones per one member's BIL) and I don't believe the on board water heater kicks in for the "Whitest Whites" cycle. I am pretty sure the only time the on board heater activates is during the "Sanitary" cycle which I have not yet had occassion to use. It's such a long cycle I can't imagine anything I own needing that degree of sanitization. Still, I want to try it and see just how hot the water is that comes out the drain hose, or see if steam clouds up the washer's window. Meanwhile I've got my house water heater set at 130 to give the "Whitest Whites" cycle a fighting chance, and I'm sure my KA dishwasher is thanking me too, even though it supposedly has an onboard heater as well.

 

[logixx]

IIRC, according to the LG service manual the heating element will turn on in any of the wash cycle.

http://136.166.4.200/SubPages/DA_Laundry.htm (LG Service & Training Manuals)

The Whirlpool Duet will heat on the Sanitary, the Whitest Whites and the Heavy Duty cycle. The Kenmore HExT washers have an option called Stain Treat - this enables the washer to heat on the Normal cycle, too. On the HE5t enabling Stain Treat will set the inlet water temperature to Warm and then heat to Hot or Very Hot. I assume other Kenmore FLs with Stain Treat will work the same.

Whirlpool service manuals can be downloaded from: http://servicematters.com/docs/doc_main.htm (go to Job Aids)

HTH, Alex

THS = That Home Site! There are laundry, appliance and many other forums. Here is the link to the Laundry Room

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/laundry/