Washing babyclothing.

[newwave1]

Hey Guys!
Well my girlfriend and i are expecting our 1st baby on 23rd Dec! We really can't wait! It's gonna be magical.

Now i'm hoping to replace my crappy hotpoint before the new arrival! However i wanted to ask your opinions on washing baby clothing. Should i buy non biological? should i buy something like ecover? I personally love ariel but i want a detergent that is going to rinse out completely.

If you read my thread 17119 that i posted this week that experts claim their is no link between biological detergent enzymes and skin problems, i think this is complete crap. excuse my language. We used persil biological for years when i was a kid, but my dad really used to suffer, when we switched to persil non bio when it came out, he had been fine ever since.

Any experiences or advice is welcomed

Darren

 

[maytagbear]

Not a parent, but an Uncle

I don't feel qualified to speak on detergents across the Pond, however, I do know this: You will be AMAZED at how much laundry such a small person will generate. Even if you use disposable nappies. Most parents I know personally use cloth nappies at home, and disposable nappies out.

My nieces live out of state, but they were here for a good part of their babyhoods, and I did a share of their laundry. I always ran the second rinse, and followed the care labels exactly, particularly when it came to fabric conditioner.

Best of luck!

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[newwave1]

Hey Lawerence!
Thankyou for your input! My girlfriends mother bought us some cloth nappies, we have both kinds, we'll see how we get on with each type.

Personally i'm loving the idea of extra laundry heehee!

I always select the extra rinse on my machines as i like to extract the maximum amount of detergent possible. Nothing worse than clothes that are stiffer than concret when they've dried on clothes airer's.

Darren.

 

[jeffg]

Darren, congrats on your upcoming arrival!

Hopefully you have soft water and a water heater that's set as high as it will go.

Not to be overly graphic here, but fecal matter for newborns is very high in protein and fat (from their mother's milk). But once babies are weaned this changes to matter which is very high in carbohydrates and virtually devoid of protein and fat (a diet of pureed fruits etc). This is the major reason baby detergents such as Dreft are chock-full of enzymes: these chemicals work wonders on protein and fat-based stains.

Still, if you wash diapers before stains fully set (it takes at least 2-3 days for this to happen), you should be able to get away with using non-bio Persil (which has >30% phosphates) with very hot water. It's pretty strong stuff even without enzymes. Bio Persil ranges from 15-30% phosphates and has added enzymes.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Hey Darren!

I've found that with my skin whether a detergent is bio or non bio doesn't seem to affect it, but more as to what is in the detergent. If you look on the side of the box of bio detergents enzymes make up a very very small percentage of the ingredients. I've found that the more perfume that's in the detergent the more that I react to it. I've also read on Ecover's website that optical brighteners irreversibly bond to skin and can cause irritation. Therefore I've found that using colour detergents, which don't have much perfume or any optical brighteners in, seem to do my skin better than non bio detergents do as non bio's have the brighteners and more bleach in to compensate for the lack of enzymes!

Rinsability is a good thing too - as we've talked about loads of times! I've found that all the 2x concentrated liquids available now, as well as Persil and own-brand powders all rinse out really well.

Jon x

 

[jeffg]

From Persil's website:

PERSIL PROFESSIONAL NON BIOLOGICAL TABLETS

Ingredients according to EC 89/542:
More than 30% : Phosphates.
15% to 30% : Zeolites.
5% to 15% : Anionic surfactants.
5% to 15% : Nonionic surfactants.
5% to 15% : Oxygen based bleaching agents.
Less than 5% : Aliphatic hydrocarbons.
Less than 5% : Phosphonates.
Less than 5% : Polycarboxylates.
Less than 5% : Soap.
Also contains optical brighteners.

PERSIL ORIGINAL NON BIOLOGICAL POWDER

Ingredients according to EC 89/542:
15% to 30% : Phosphates.
15% to 30% : Oxygen based bleaching agents.
5% to 15% : Anionic surfactants.
5% to 15% : Nonionic surfactants.
Less than 5% : Polycarboxylates.
Less than 5% : Soap.
Less than 5% : Zeolites.

PERSIL BIOLOGICAL POWDER

Ingredients according to EC 89/542:
15% to 30% : Phosphates.
15% to 30% : Oxygen based bleaching agents.
5% to 15% : Anionic surfactants.
5% to 15% : Nonionic surfactants.
Less than 5% : Polycarboxylates.
Less than 5% : Soap.
Less than 5% : Zeolites.
Also contains enzymes.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Jeff - the newer formulations of Persil (the powder at least) doesn't contain phosphates. In fact I can't recommend the new Persil bio powder as it is awful at removing odours - washed the dog blankets on a 60 and it didn't remove the doggy smell, and also washed teatowels which had smelt musty after being left in the basket on 95*C and it didn't remove the smell of that either! Using own-brand biological detergent at the moment and it seems to do a much better job!

Jon

 

[jeffg]

These formulations are current, and are from Persil's Professional line of detergents. See:

http://https//www.greenham.com/c/lg/23988/JohnsonDiversey-Washing-Powders

 

[lavamat_jon]

Strange, my box of professional Persil (which is the latest "just washed freshness" formulation) doesn't have phosphates listed on the box at all! Perhaps the website is outdated?

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

Just looked at the datasheets and they're also 7 years out of date. Persil indeed had phosphates back then, they've since been replaced by zeolites

Jon

 

[MrX]

A few tips:

Get a washing machine that rinses well and that can wash a large volume of clothes and has good rinsing characteristics.

I'd recommend at the high end:
Miele or Bosch

Middle of the range:
The 1600 rpm Hotpoint Aqualtis
Electrolux Inspire
Various Zanussis

Bottom of the range : Not quite sure.

Detergent choice:

Persil Powder seems to be the best rinsing and, despite the recent change, still has the least overpowering smell.

It's unlikely that your baby will react to it.

I wouldn't recommend the use of fabric softener, if you do want to use it stick to either Comfort Pure or Fairy Softener.

Do not use Ariel or Bold, they're effective at cleaning but difficult to rinse and leave a very powerful lingering scent.

The non-bio vs bio argument doesn't seem to hold water at all when it comes to allergies. People can just react badly to any detergent, it's often down to a random interaction with one of the ingredients.

Enzymes will allow you to effectively wash clothes at low temperatures and are excellent at breaking down baby type stains.

Typically, Persil for example has a type of protease that helps the detergent to breakdown proteins.
Amylase, which is found in your own saliva, and helps break down starch and sugars
Lipase - it helps the detergent to break down fat, oil, grease and other lipids.
Cellulase - It dissolves loose fibres from clothes preventing the formation of those little piles / balls on fabrics.

If your baby does react to detergent, try some of the specifically sensitive skin versions.

Remember, a cheap non-bio like some of the store ownbrand versions may be pretty harsh. They rely purely on the action of the surfactants and oxygen bleach to clean your clothes.

Ecover's great for the environment, but there's nothing particular about it that would mean it's less harsh on your skin. It also contains enzymes, they're just plant sourced.

It's not a bad detergent, particularly the bio version. I wouldn't think that it's anything particularly amazingly good for babies though.

 

[MrX]

They haven't had phosphates in Persil for many years. I don't know where that site's getting its info from! The 1980s ?!

Also on the odor removal properties of Persil. I have found it pretty good. I've never noticed any odours left.

The previous version of Persil powder did have a very odd scent though. It could actually end up smelling a little like 'must'.

The newer formulation 'just washed freshness' smells a lot more like it ought to in my opinion anyway. It's still not overpowering but it's a lot nicer than the pervious smell which was just a little weird.

Ariel's a bit too much for my liking. If I want to smell nice I will put on cologne, not 'eau de toilet cleaner' that they seem to have added to Ariel in recent years. It used to smell nice!!

 

[dascot]

Congratulations Darren! I did wonder when you mentioned about news that would mean you'd be saving up... I can give you plenty of tips on this one!

- Use non-bio detergents, preferably unscented or lightly scented.

- Don't use softener, but use a little white vinegar in the rinse. This is particularly good for nappies.

- Most clothes will be fine washed at 40, but nappies and muslins better at 60.

- I'm biased, but cloth nappies are much better than disposables, for environment and for the child too.

I could go on (and on and on)...

Dave

 

[panthera]

Congratulations!

I think that is wonderful and I wish all three of you all the best.
The formulation of detergents changes constantly; there is also no guarantee that "Persil" here in Germany will be similar to the virtually identically labeled "Persil" in the UK.
Here are my recommendations, based on intensive baby laundry needs in 2003/2004 - I doubt much has changed.
1) Unless your baby actually has problems with them, go for the high-enzyme detergents. They permit lower wash temperatures, eliminate the need for chlorine bleach.
2) Get a separate centrifuge or spinner (German: Schleuder) which spins at 2800 revolutions per minute. It is a long established fact that these spin out considerable quantities of detergent together with so much water that you can actually dry the clothes very quickly, even in the flat, even on rainy days.
3) Remember that protein based stains set in hot water, so follow the instructions exactly on pre-rinsing by stain.
4) Don't let anyone tell you that "only" washable nappies or "only" bio-this, eco-that is good for your child. A child will benefit enormously more from having his or her parents spend time with them than from having the flavor-of-the-month-trend in baby care imposed upon the young family.
5) Maytagbear is right, the amount of laundry which piles up with babies is beyond belief. I strongly urge you to spit in the eye of the eco-fundamentalists and learn the joys of disposable paper and non-woven fabric products. When feeding David, I used to take an eight-layer thick section of newspaper, cut out a hole for my head and wear it as a "bib". Between the bottle and the burping (you do know why you burb them, don't you? So they can spit-up on your clothes!) followed a few months later by the "close your eyes and open your mouth and you'll get a big surprise of soft, squishy, sticky, stain-y food...well, all my German friends were shocked, shocked I tell you - but with one role of paper towels and several old newspapers, I could have the baby, fed, burped, diapers changed and be spending time playing with him (the important thing) while they were still changing their own clothes, scrubbing the table, the floor, etc.
I do rather agree with mrx here: Get a really good washing machine. A used Miele will serve you better than any of the cheaper brands. With a separate spinner, you needn't go that high in spin-speed, either. If you do have to buy a new machine, be aware that most rinse badly. Be sure to double-rinse everything; personally I'd try a bit of white vinegar in the final rinse and skip the fabric softener.
Again, congratulations!

 

[MrX]

panthera

Persil in the UK, Ireland, France and New Zealand isn't at all connected with German Persil. At least not since 1931 anyway when Unilever acquired the brand in those countries.

UK and Ireland Persil is identical to Skip in France.

Persil here is a Unilever product and has basically nothing other than the name in common with Henkel Persil.

They're similar products though, both high end detergents.

Persil in France is a specialist natural soap based detergent!
While in NZ Persil is available as a toploader or 'low suds' formula. Similar to US top loader and HE detergents. It's identical to Australian Omo and Omo-Matic

 

[newwave1]

Thanks for your input guys! I've never had the chance to wash for young people in the past and i'm not hot on detergent ingrediants as much as i am machines. So input is greatly appreciated!

I'm going with a zanussi hopefully! super rinse on them gives you 5 rinses at not a bad level. Like my mums aeg. I'm doing a trade with a recon guy for my hotpoint.

Lesson guys. You know when your choosin yourself a nice new machine. You get sucked in to the nice pretty lights and coloured machines. I did that and even with my fountain of washer knowledge still bought sumthing i knew was crap convincing myself the brand had changed lol. Lesson learnt.

Back to old faithful electrolux gear for me!

Darren

 

[dascot]

My Zanussi has been dealing well with kids clothes and nappies for 3.5 years now, and still running great. You might find one of your older machines to be as good or better than anything modern to have in the house for general use.

I disagree with those saying to use bio washing powders, but that's from my own experience with them - I've been sensitive to them and not non-bio. I'm not saying it's because of the enzymes, but something in them isn't in non-bio and makes me itchy. But then I could have that rant in the thread about bio detergents...

Feel free to ask any questions, I'm sure any of us with any experience in dealing with kids will be able to give lots of gory details!

 

[platinum6]

The best way of washing baby clothing is to use a Non-Biological detergent as well as using the Extra Rinse option as often as possible. That's what I'd do if I had any to wash although it's unlikely in my household lol.

 

[dyson2drums]

Hi newwave1
*****CONGRATULATIONS*****
I would recommend persil non bio as that is what my cosin sister uses for her year old baby. She has had no problems like stiff clothes, she's got a aqualtis 1200 or 1400 with extra rinse. not sure.
hope it helps!