Washing machine advice - I'm looking for a reliable washer

[omnivac7000]

Good morning everyone!
The saga continues, unfortunately...
Well, the repairman arrived and he knew about field bulletin 1. I mentioned FB-13 too and he said he'll check but there should have been an error code for that.
The bad news is that the manufacturer shipped the wrong part. They shipped the outer tub instead of the inner tub. The other 2 parts they got right.
The box was labelled correctly but the part inside was not.
I need to wait at least another week for the part to arrive.
So, this issue itself is that the tub and balance are rising UP during the cycle and grinding against the top cover causing all the plastic fragments.
The repairman assured me that the new parts have tighter tolerances and this issue won't happen again.
I assumed that the tub wasn't balanced and banging against the outer tub but that wasn't the case.
So, one mystery solved!
He said I can use the washer; if the plastic fragments come back, I'll just take a little off the top of the balance ring with my Dremel and see if that fixes it.
Until next week!

 

[DADoES]

 
<blockquote>... I'll just take a little off the top of the balance ring with my Dremel and see if that fixes it.</blockquote> Be careful with that so as to not puncture into the ring.  They're partially-filled with water for a gyroscopic effect and won't function for balancing if empty of said fluid.

 

[panthera]

Yes, because we have power tools handy

For all of our vintage appliances, every time we use them....
Not.
(Insert boring list showing that, basically, we run our 1930s-1984 daily-driver appliances roughly ten years between fixes.)

Just grab the Dremel and grind 'er down 'till she fits.

I think you should try to get your money back for that lemon. Even Consumer Reports gave them the sole 'poor' rating in the organization's testing history for a top-loader that year.  2018 was, apparently, the end of what was once a great name in washers.

 

If this were Dirty Laundry, I'd add a few well-chosen words. 

 

[omnivac7000]

I found 3 models for sale

Interesting news!
I found 3 models for sale about 1.5 hour drive away (best I can do so far)
They wouldn't give me the serial numbers but they did have the model numbers.
Are these models any good?
WTW5500SQ0 $300
LSV7233BW0 $250
MTW5600TQ1 $300

Thanks!

 

[DADoES]

 
All are direct-drive.  Essentially equivalent in operation, some minor differences in features & settings.

Whirlpool WTW5500SQ0 = 2006 model-year

Whirlpool LSV7233BW0 = 1994 model-year

Maytag MTW5600TQ1 = 2007 model-year

Effective age may be slightly different than the model-year depending on manufacture date (coded in the serial number) and/or original purchase date (likely no way to know that).

 

[omnivac7000]

Thank you very much!
Which one do you recommend?
I was thinking the 1994 model but I'm a novice...

 

[panthera]

Any of them will be better than the mess you now have

I'd go for the easiest one to get. Much as Whirlpool pretends Maytags are their 'premium' line, the truth is, from the lowest Crossley to the highest-end KA or Maytag, they're all the same inside where it really matters.

Do plan on somday replacing the drive 'puck' with the commercial one you should buy now (watch the Youtube videos, you can do it as a novice in 30 minutes, tops) and buy the commercial clutch pack.

I'm infamous around here for my lack of warmth toward Whirlpool. These machines, however, are good choices and will serve you far better than a 2018 SQ. Far longer between fixes, too!

 

 

 

[omnivac7000]

Good news!
I bought the 1994 Whirlpool direct drive washer!
I'm going to clean it up a bit and then test it out.
I assume the "puck" you mentioned is the clutch?
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what that is exactly...

 

[panthera]

Not a clutch.

The Whirlpool experts will be along shortly to explain it in detail, but, basically, Whirlpool came up with a rather clever idea about 40 years ago or so. Hang the motor horizontally under the basket. Put the pump as directly driven on one end and drive the transmission through a slightly flexible 'puck' or, more properly 'motor coupler'.

It is designed to fail every few years which is why they made a commercial version which lasts forever in domestic use.
Same with the clutch plate - easily replaced with the commercial unit which lasts forever.
Here's a short video on them.

You'll like this machine It will clean for decades more!

 

[qsd-dan]

The heavy duty coupler is part# 285852A

 

[keith]

Verify proper Neutral Drain

Just to throw out an alternative viewpoint from someone who lived through what you're going through (but in the 90's...and with a DD washer) I'm jaded on these damn DD washers everyone praises....I just want you to go into this with your eyes open to what can and does go wrong on these.

Every Direct Drive washer I've ever owned blew out the neutral drain assembly in under 5 years, I believe the OEM is no longer supporting parts for this washer, and aftermarket parts are available with mixed quality reviews, as is the timer assembly which I've also had fail on my DD washers.

You can tell if the neutral drain assembly is bad by watching the machine drain, it should drain with the tub still. If it slips into spin mode before the motor comes to a stop following a drain event, the neutral drain assembly is bad, and the transmission needs to be either pulled to replace the neutral drain kit, or a new (rebuilt at this point, new transmissions are likely NLA) transmission installed. Running the machine with a failed neutral drain kit will wear things out quickly (I gave up on my last DD after the second neutral drain kit failed 2 years after the first one failed) and I ran it like that cause I was so disgusted (I've owned 4 DD washers and every.single.one. had neutral drain issues so I gave up on paying to have it fixed). It killed the coupler first, then the spin clutch went. Most people I knew junked the washer after the first NDrain kit went, or ran it like I did till then thing blew itself apart. It was a big repair to pay for in a washer that was just out of warranty and people lost faith in the machine. Unlike your Speed Queen these things only had a 1 year (*maybe* 2) warranty when new.

Between timers, agitator dogs, and neutral drain issues I really have had terrible luck with my DD washers over the years. They work very well when they work. But they are not a miracle machine (nothing is). Just my experience. Seems people only remember the good points (they wash well) and gloss over the issues (already over 25 years old, parts not available, no tech will want to touch one, they were loud as hell, they were not even solidly reliable after a few years of regular use (at least with me)). I would have SQ fix your still under warranty washer, that is still supported with factory parts, has updated pars available to remedy the issue once and for all, and run that for 20 years or more.

Best of luck, I really mean that, I understand your frustration with your current washer because i've had the same exact frustration with the DD washers I've owned (a 1987 KM, a 1994 WP, a 2001 WP, 2005 WP) and they weren't in warranty (I had to pay for the experience). I kept buying DD machines because at the time they were cheaper than most alternative top loaders(between 5-600 bux adjusted for inflation) and when they worked they were decent at washing, also blindly thinking after 20 something years of production by that point they would have worked the problems out... hopefully your experience with longevity is better than ones I've had or my friends had back in the day. Again, my experience was not a great one, so I could never recommend one to someone, especially not nowadays unless you are an appliance tech, and have a stockpile of parts for future use.

all the best,
Keith

 

[DADoES]

 
Neutral drain kit is P/N 388253 or now 388253A.  I checked my favorite online source, 388253A is available.  Also available and says "genuine Whirlpool" at four other popular sources.

Direct-drives were spin-drain for the first three to four years of production.  My grandmother's ran for 15 years (1984 to 1999) without wearing out anything (including the motor coupler).  It was sold when I passed my 1991 KA set to her upon getting my F&P GWL08 pair.  The KA was neutral drain, never had any failures for the duration that she and I used it, which was to 2004 when I got my F&P IWL12 and passed the GWL08 to granny.  She liked the F&P better than the KA because of its lower Low water level compared to the KA that filled 1/2 at the smallest load size.  I still have the KA but it hasn't been used in years.

 

[keith]

Spin Drain years

DADoES, Yes The Spin drain years were '81-85 (possibly early 86) IIRC. The very first of the DD's. At the time I was still running a BD, and looking back, should have kept it. It had its problems as well but was quieter, less violent on clothing, and didn't have the repeat failures I dealt with on the DD models. Yes, more to go wrong but somehow the 2 BD WP washers I owned (one from '72 left behind at my apartment, still working when I got my then-new '80 after moving into a different place) had fewer issues than the DD ones. Maybe I'm unlucky.

Nice to see a few OEM parts still floating around out there! If I had one of these still Id stock up while I could, another couple of years they'll be hard to find and $$$

OP referred to seeing a '94 DD so I probably shouldn't have assumed that would be the only year they'd look at.

 

[maytag85]

I’ve never had long term experience with Whirlpool direct drive machines, but I will say the parts that are most prone to failing are the agitator dogs, motor coupler, and spin clutch but usually the agitator dogs or motor coupler will fail first before the spin clutch.

Technically I have more experience with belt drive washers since I’ve owned my Kenmore portable washer since 2017 and my ‘63 Whirlpool since last year. Only way a neutral drain can fail on a belt drive washer is if the plunger/solenoid breaks for the spin and it can’t disengage the spin and it will be obvious since the tub will be spinning when it’s agitating but those failures aren’t common on belt drive washers.

 

[panthera]

Neutral drain, Speed Queen after 2017

First off, by now we all know that Speed Queen ended their quality programmes in 2017 and, every since, have built trash.

Anything, including a plastic WWI 'Frigidaire' with the Franklin transmission is going to be better quality.

 

As to neutral drain, some Whirlpools engage the spin only when the basket has drained completely, some engage the spin when it's just under half-empty and some run with a broken neutral drain for a good long time.

 

I'd buy the commercial coupler, commercial clutch, both neutral drain kits (one never knows) and not worry about a modern tech not wanting to fix it. Modern techs never want to fix anything older than one week out of warranty, if that.

 

Worst case, you'll still have a machine which cleans really well, rinses really well and occasionally needs work done to it which you can do for yourself.

 

[DADoES]

 
There's only one neutral drain kit.  The P/N may have changed with addition of the letter A but the contents are the same.

 

[keith]

Neutral drain operation

Neutral drain has only 1 correct operating mode:

Motor turns one direction for wash.
Motor stops
Motor starts in opposite direction engaging neutral drain inside transmission.
Neutral drain will continue until motor stops again which will kick off neutral drain mechanically.
Motor restarts in same direction as drain and tub will spin.

All of those other modes Described in reply 33 are failure modes of a dying neutral drain assembly.

Going into spin without a motor stop event is incorrect operation of the neutral drain assembly and requires the washer to be completely disassembled, the transmission to be removed, transmission to be disassembled, neutral drain kit replaced, oil changed, transmission reassembled, installed and washer reassembled. Unless you did like I did after paying for this to be done several times and just let it run. I got 2 months until the coupler failed, replaced that and the clutch blew apart about a few months later leaving me with a tub full of wet clothes. Awesome times! Never again.

Unless you are a competent appliance tech with the required tools, it’s something best left to the pros.

Just my 2c.

Keith

 

[DADoES]

 
I believe the only appreciable effect of failed neutral drain is potential linting atop the load.  I know everyone says spin-drain is better in that respect but *rumor* is that Whirlpool developed neutral drain in response to customer complaints about lint residue.  John/Combo52 has said his experience is that his customers who have neutral drain failure tend to see that problem.

Neutral drain repair is not an especially large deal IMO.  I've done it once and had no trouble, although it is somewhat messy.  I don't recall any special tools being required that a competent DIYer wouldn't already have.  16 oz. of 85/90 wt gear oil and a tube of a suitable gasket maker product.

ETA:  There's a somewhat increased chance of off-balance spin from the floating-clothes effect if the user tends to underload for the selected water level but DDs handle off-balance spin reasonably well until it gets into the gross range.[this post was last edited: 11/12/2021-20:19]

 

[panthera]

I'm always glad to hear from the Whirlpool experts

Although we have several - belt drive and DD (not the electronic sh*t), I've yet to have a neutral drain fail - despite the fact that one Kenmore has always drained half down and then started it's spin and another goes all the way to no water in the tub.

But, I also have never made any bones about the fact that I dislike Whirlpool as a company. Always did and after what they did to Maytag, doubly so.

Frankly, of all our washers, I'd say the Whirlpools are the most reliable.

 

[DADoES]

 
Half drain then spin without the motor pausing first IS a neutral drain fail.