Washing Machine Fires

[youtubearecool]

Well this is scary stuff. That ones washing machine can caught fire just like that. I have found some photos on the internet and made a video of it.

Never leave home with machine on.

 

[youtubearecool]

Some more Pics

Electrolux. Motor caught fire.

 

[youtubearecool]

Another pic of an Electrolux. This time it was an WH 280. The machine had leaked water quite awhile before the fire.

 

[animasinsulinpu]

WOW!!!

I would never leave home or go to sleep with the washer or DW on. What fun is that? Thanks for the pic and video....Bill in Az,USA.....

 

[sudsman]

Notice where the most of the damages is in most of the pics

The computer area. Not a one was a conventional washer.Pooy to the new modern crap!

 

[toggleswitch2]

Proving once again that a wall-switch controlling power outlets(power-points) is a fabulous idea!

IIRC new code requres a wall-switch to shut-off your DW. Not sure if that includes plug-and (flex) cord connected units. Plug-and-cord connected dishwashers was at one time not allowed in NYC' I believe this has changed.

Dear international friends; many dishwashers here are hard- wired (no plug and socket) where the cable from in the wall goes rignt into the unit.

I have had to inspect buildings after a fire and I have to say that second photographs is eerily accurate. I can practically smell it.

 

[rolls_rapide]

I noticed that....

...a good few of the machines in the Youtube slideshow were Electrolux or Zanussi machines! They're supposed to be a little bit more reliable than some makes.

I wonder if there were any washer-driers in that lot?

Puts one off running the machines unattended!

 

[bertrum]

hardwired?

hi Toggleswitch2,
Surely if an appliance is hard wired it will still have its own fuse unique to that appliance?

Unless you are saying in the US you have appliances that are directly wired to the main fuse box?, I have never seen this in UK domestic appliances.

 

[ronhic]

Bertrum...

...It happened (or used to) here too.

My parents hotplates and oven are wired to a seperate fuse in the main fuse box just as the lights, power points and hot water service are...

The main difference though is that the our power points are switched (as in the UK), but until recently, there was no requirement for separate switching for ovens/hot water services though there are exceptions....

Some people used to put a switch in for the hot water service so they could control when it heated etc....but this was not a requirement....we have one by default, my parents don't.

However, we had our kitchen redone in 2006 and the oven/hotplates have an isolation switch on the wall near the cooker just as they do in the UK.

Another thing to remember is that the UK and parts of the world that use the UK power point system, such as Hong Kong, have fuses in the plugs. The vast majority of countrys do not but rely on the main fuse box for protection.

As an example, my parents house has the following main fuses

2x lights
2x power points
Stove
oven
hot water service

...as well as a main on/off switch.

Until 2004, they had simple wired fuses that if one blew, you took the fuse out, replaced the wire with some of appropriate rating and plugged in. They have since changed their fuse box to a circuit breaker system. The majority of houses in Australia probably still have simple, wired fuses....

 

[MrX]

Local fusing in the UK isn't actually primarily there to be an extra safety device.

Final ring circuits used in the UK to feed outlets are rated at 32amps. The fuse in the plug of an appliance (rated 13amps max) or, if the appliance is hardwired, a fused connection unit, are only required because the appliance's cable would not be able to withstand a 32A fault.

It's normal practice in most European wiring regulations to have appliances connected either via a plug-and-socket, or via a local isolating switch.

Outside of the UK, appliances are usually sitting on 16 or 20amp circuits (15 amp in the US) and do not actually require local fusing. However, it is pretty important to be able to disconnect them without having to switch a breaker off! So an isolating switch is certainly a good idea!

That being said, it's not unusual in European kitchens (including the UK and Ireland) to have dishwashers, washing machines, dryers etc plugged into outlets that are hidden away at the back of near-by cupboards. While they're accessible, they would not be very easy to reach in a fire situation.

There are also plenty of kitchens where the dishwasher is plugged into an outlet on the wall directly behind it that is totally inaccessible. Either in compliance with old regulations, or a DIY, or not-very-well-done, kitchen installation.

So, in reality, many dishwashers over here would not be any easier to disconnect than a US hardwired machine. You would still have to throw a breaker in a lot of cases!!

Modern kitchen installations here require an isolating switch for dishwashers (And any other integrated appliances) located on the wall above them. Or, an accessible plug and socket.

When we installed our integrated dishwasher, the electrician used a 15A non-fused round-pin plug behind the machine plugged into an outlet that is connected to a fused, switched spur above the machine on the wall. His logic was that if the fuse went in the plug behind the machine, we would have to remove the entire appliance to get access to it. So, he avoided using a standard plug. The level of protection is exactly the same as the fuse is in the spur unit.

Cooking appliances (Ovens and hobs) have always had to have 32A or 45A double-poll isolating switches near by.

Here's a switched spur unit : (For appliances up to 13amp @ 230V)

Holds a standard UK/Ireland fuse (as found in all of our plugs)

 

[toggleswitch2]

yes that is what I am saying!

Our "fittted"/installed dishwashers are run on a separate 110v 20a appliance circuit and are directly wired-in to the cable that runs to the circuit-protection (fuse) box.The only way to turn off the power was to turn off the circuit breaker or remove the fuse.

Many of our appliances are on individual circuits in that on 110v, the wattage we can shoot through a wire of a certain ampacity (amp capacity) is of course half of what can be shot through the same wire using 220v.

Interestingly, the National Electric Code states that permanently installed electric resistance heaters (say baseboard style or unit heaters in the wall) shall have TWO means of diisconnecting them from the power source. One of those shall be in the same room as the heater. This necessitates thermostats, and also two-pole (turn off BOTH hot legs) verisons with a positve "OFF" postion/setting. Logically one does not want a full "OFF" postion on a heating only thermnostst to prevent accidental freezing of pipes and such. And indeed the thermostats of heating-only system don't have an "OFF" postion on their thermostats for just that reason; freeze protection. But these methods ensure compliance with code.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Meaning gas or oil fired systems that don't have cooling usually don't have an "OFF" position on the thermostst.

Electric heaters in each room do.

 

[bertrum]

thanks toggleswitch2, didn't know that was the case across the pond.

Intersting what you said 'mrz' about your electrician "His logic was that if the fuse went in the plug behind the machine, we would have to remove the entire appliance to get access to it. So, he avoided using a standard plug".

I have removed litterally thousands of integrated appliances and I have never understood the reason for hard wiring an appliance in, in fact I still don't understand the logic as if an appliance trips a fuse 99% of the time it will need to come out anyway!.

In my opinion its just time/ money saving for electricians to put in a hardwirwed spur rather than a proper plug,(it also makes it a pain in the neck when it comes to removing hardwired appliances).

 

[toggleswitch2]

~I have never understood the reason for hard wiring an appliance.

Wehn an appliance is otherise tethered to a property, say an electric hot water heater via the pipes or a dishwasher via pipes, or even a stationary a wall-oven and a cooktop, the logic was a plug-and-cord does not "add" to the portability.

Of course today we see it as more of a safety feature!

Let us not forget that in the early days of electricty in this country the plug-and-socket configuraton was not standard and agreed-upon for high amperage-draw appliances So you couln't even if you wanted to.

Didn't we just see this situation in a small Eastern European country lately? IIRC the washer was hard-wired in due to a lack of a standardized avaialbel high amperage power-outlet in that region.

 

[revvinkevin]

Washing machine fires!

This is the 2nd time I have seen a thread about washing machines which spontaneously combust..... has anyone else besides me noticed they all of these "washing machine fires" are in the smaller 220V Euro sized washers???

 

[toggleswitch2]

Well in all fairness the orginal poster is from a place where those are the norm and those machines are actually the world majority. More of them means more can have problems, even if the ratio of leaking/sparky ones (to total units) is actually very low.

220v as opposed to 110v may help spice-up the situation.

IIRC One may NOT use a GFI (residual current detector) with a washer- they'd (nearly) ALWAYS "pop" into "safety".

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Steve,

I disagree with your GFI, or as we call them RCD statement. Everything in our house other than Stove and Water heater are on RCD Circuit breakers. It's the law here now that all rental properties and new builds must be fully RCD Protected.

I have no issues with any appliance unless it's faulty, the two or three times we've had a trip in the last 6 years, its been a washer I've collected off the side of the road, or a circuit overload.

I see on Garden Web a fear of putting RCD's on circuits such as Fridges, Garbage Disposals, Dishwashers, Washers etc, either the RCD's you have in the US dont work as well, or its more of an Urban Legend.

In relation to Voltage vs Amperage, I would've thought there is a greater potential for fires at 110v as the amperage and therefore heat needs to be double to achieve the same amount of work? Isnt that why the US derates the maximum wattage on a circuit? Here we can run 4800watts on a 20amp plug, my understanding in the US that it'd need to be 30amps even at 220v. Our standard appliance plugs are rated at 10amps 2400watts whereas isnt the US 15amps and 1500watts, or 2000 watts at 20amps? The 240v world never seems to need to de-rate like the 110v world does.

Just another perspective.

Cheers,

Nathan

 

[rolls_rapide]

GFI (residual current detector) with a washer

The UK has residual current devices (RCDs) that continuously monitor the 13amp sockets. This is in addition to miniature circuit breakers (MCBs) for each circuit. We have no problem with a properly internally insulated and earthed washing machine.

However, should the machine develop a leakage of current to earth, the RCD will be the first to detect it and thus give an indication of a serious fault in the machine.

Last Summer, my parents cottage had an early morning overhead thunderstorm. A close-by lightening strike travelled down the phone line, destroyed the phone and exited via the 13Amp power cord and plug, into the ring mains.

The consumer unit RCD that monitors the 13Amp sockets detected this and flipped the switch. The MCB also kicked in, disconnecting the kitchen sockets, lounge sockets and bedroom sockets. The lighting circuits remained untouched and fully operational.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Sorry all I did not intend to imply or infer that "mine is better/safer than yours". It is just interesting to me the way so many countries are well advanced of us here and the degree of safety methods and procedures needed on 220v that are well, "forerign" to us.

~I see on Garden Web a fear of putting RCD's on circuits such as Fridges, Garbage Disposals, Dishwashers, Washers etc, either the RCD's you have in the US don't work as well, or its more of an Urban Legend.

Don't know if Garden Web is an Aussie site or a US site. But wouldn't frequent "annoyance trips" mean they work better? *LOL*

1- AFAIK I stand by my statments that RCDs/GFI's may not be used (allowed) IN THE USA for refrigerators, freezers and laundry equipment. Interestingly one-piece self-contained window and wall-mounted air-conditoioners have one.

~Here we can run 4,800 watts on a 20 amp plug.
That makes sense based on your design voltage of 240v.

~My understanding in the US that it'd need to be 30 amps even at 220v.

Yes because at 220v, 4,800 watts is 21.8 amps.

~Our standard appliance plugs are rated at 10 amps 2,400 watts whereas isn't the US 15 amps and 1500 watts, or 2,000 watts at 20amps?

Probably not because that infers a voltage of 100v.
On 120v, 15a wire'/accessories can carry 1,800 watts and 20a wire can carry 2,400 watts.

Code however, allows for a load of 80% DESIGN amperage max per circuit. (obviously more can be carreid until the amperage limit is reached). Normally, instructions for devices over 12a request a 20a line. (15a @ 80% = 12a). Strangely air-condioners of 7.5a or over request a DEDICATED 15a circuit, but this may be related to high starting-amp draw and the dimming of lights (quick voltage dips) on that circuit.

~The 240v world never seems to need to de-rated like the 110v world does.

Not sure what this means, or is itended to mean. Here with limited wattages able to flow through wires of a certain gauge/thickness (due to the voltage we use), we can't plug in two heavy-draw (read: heating) appliances at the same time on the same line. (hair- dryer and space-heater, or coffee-maker and toaster, etc. This is especially true of 15a general lighting circuits as opposed to 20a appliance lines.

I'm sere now that the officeal voltage in Europe and Australia is 230v (down from 240v and up from 220v) to be techincally in spec and within allowable tolerance of each other. Allowable wattages for a given amperage may change.
It is interesting to note that the offical voltages may have changed on paper; The actual existing coltages probably has not and will not.

My comment about 220v spicng things up in terms of a fire, was from the perspective of the current at a higher voltage beign able to spark agcross a wider gap, and much more wattage/power can flow before a breker limits the over-current situation. Remeber I am blisfully un awrefd of RCDs /GFIs use dwith laundry equipment, so my mentality was limited to that scenario!

Again please don't take offense. We here fear 220v. We are just not used to it.

a Cypriot electrican now living and working here said to a friend of mine "There is no difference between 220v and 110v ecxcept if you make a mistake with 110v you may live to repeat it"

I think we all sort of agreed that 220v at 60hz is best, so we are all half-right and half-wrong!