Water heaters

[browncow]

I took a quick trip around the stores.

Most of the heaters now have plastic drain valves, except for the TOL 12 year models, but I understand they're not too difficult to swap out for a metal valve.

The TOL Kenmore claims to have dual rods and 2" insulation; the display materials for the GEs at HD don't reveal anything useful.

What struck me is the cost to install one of these things, around 300 bones. It doesn't seem like a particularly difficult or time consuming job to me, certainly not three times as hard as installing a washer in terms of dollar amounts. These must be like brake jobs for auto mechanics. Quick, easy work with high profit.

Incidentally, the old leaky heater is a Monkey Ward. It's gotta be at least 15 years old, and never saw regular maintenance. Judging by its appearance, it's pretty much the same as the GE made by Ruud.

 

[sudsmaster]

Wow. 50 gallons is considered a relatively large water heater here. Of course, there are bigger ones, but I remember growing up in SF and living in a number of flats that had 20 gallon water heaters. With three females in the family, that meant the guys were not allowed to take showers in the morning... lol...

I'm actually thinking that when it comes time to replace the 50 gallong unit, I may get a 40 gallon instead. The 50 never seems to run out of hot water, as is.

 

[gansky1]

I have a Whirlpool 50 gal. 40,000 BTU input rating bought from bLowes 18 months ago. This is probably the worst water heater I've ever owned. It replaced a 50 gal. 50,000 BTU that even on it's deathbed could heat circles around the Whirlpool. Recovery time on the WP seems like forever, I'm sure it's the smaller burner input. I'll probably replace it soon - it just drives me crazy to not have a quickly replenished supply of hot water.

Watch the BTU input when comparing tanks, I think the higher the better!

 

[sudsmaster]

The Monkey Ward 50 gal is 53,000 BTU. Never really had a problem with hot water running out. Oh, and I checked the date - 1977. So it's now 30 years old, and going strong.

 

[58limited]

In college I lived in a farm house that had a 30 gallon Monkey Ward water heater. I had its own cabinet since it was designed for houses without a garage or closet. It lasted 35 years before the tank finally leaked. This thing was not maintained very well and suffered long periods when the house was vacant, so I was impressed with its longevity. The printing on the cabinet said it had a lifetime warranty - but we didn't go to Wards and try to enforce it.

At that time (1996), we could still buy a water heater with a lifetime warranty, naturally the manufacturers quit offering that by the time I bought my house in 1999.

 

[magic clean]

Interesting concept

"Sears offered a "high-tech" storage-type hot water heater that had a tank of some material (which I can't recall) that would last indefinitely. It wasn't SS, but maybe fiberglass or lexan plastic or some such thing".

They are no longer sold at Sears. They were rather expensive.

They were known as "Survivor". Had a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser. There was a gas version that apparanently has been discontinued by the manufacturer. It was a hybrid unit, in that had a instaneous gas water heater, a circulating pump and the storage tank. Seemed rather complex.

See the link below for the manufacturer.

Rheem's Marathon Water Heater is the Most Durable Water Heater Ever Made - Rheem Manufacturing Company - Rheem Manufacturing Company

Its award-winning construction makes the Rheem® Marathon® water heater the most durable electric water heater ever made. And its industry-best warranty makes it a smart purchase you can count on for years to come.

www.marathonheaters.com

 

[blackstone]

Monel Tanks

Way back in 1966, my father bought a USED monel gas water heater, and had it delivered from New Hampshire. This heater served three households for over 30 years. Then, when the tank stops serving its purpose, you can take the monel tank to the junkyard and get about $75 for it. If you can get a monel tank, that would be the wisest choice.

 

[sudsmaster]

Just turn the clock back to 1948 and you too can have a whiter wash due to your new Ruud Monel Water Heater!

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[sudsmaster]

Mo Monel

It even has a museum!

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/whh/pages/historypages/monel-copper.html

 

[toggleswitch]

Thanks Leslie / Magic Clean fro that linkie!

Gas:
30 gallon, 30,000 BTU
40 gallon, 40,000 BTU
50 gallon, 50,000 BTU

...for an average hot water heater.

More TOL greater heat input, whereas more BOL models have less heat input

Electric hot water heaters of the storage type generally have MUCH slower recovery times than similarly sized gas models.

 

[toggleswitch]

~More TOL greater heat input, whereas more BOL models have less heat input

.........comparing the same size storage tank.

IIRC commercial hot water heaters have much greater heat inputs per gallon of size.

CAVEAT: Some gas models require electricity to run the controls, and therefore won't work in a blackout situation.

 

[maytagbear]

I am peeved with my landlord--

he replaced a nice 40 gallon gas heated tank, when it failed, with a 30 gallon one. This new one is a Whirlpool brand unit, and so far, it's been all right. It's in the locked basement, so I have no idea as to gas input.

I have to schedule, though. I cannot run a full wash load (warm or hot) and then shower, but I can run a load of dishes and then shower, for example.

He knows I have a washer and dishwasher, so I am puzzled as to why the 30 gallons instead of 40, but I guess he thought that since I live alone, and Boris The Cat does not use much hot water, 30 gallons would be adequate.....

Because it is in the locked basement, I have the thermostat a little higher than I would really like (around 140F). Wish I could adjust it more easily.

So far, it's been ok. The burner, however, is still very noisy. Then again, it's under my reading chair, and I notice that

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[tomturbomatic]

Monel came along before stainless steel. It was also called German Silver. When I was touring the Ringling Mansion in Sarasota, the docent said that the kitchen sinks were made of German Silver and everyone ooohed and aaahed. We have a little Monel water heater given to us by a friend a couple of years ago. It's a Rudd and had been in service since before WWII. The drain valve finally started leaking so they replaced it. When I saw that the tank was only 20 gallons, I asked if they ever ran short of hot water and the answer was no. I guess some people get along with a lot less hot water than I.

As far as old water heater ads go, I remember when they first started advertising Glass Lined tanks. Everyone pictured some huge Pyrex thing only to find out when it started leaking that it was glass fused to steel i.e. porcelain and it did break down with age.

John had one of those Survivor gas water heaters which he liked. The tank was a very heavy insulated plastic, but it started leaking. They had been out of production a while so he had to take as a replacement a more standard design water heater.

 

[rp2813]

Whirlpools

I replaced two 40-gallon gas water heaters within the last year. One at my mom's and one at my own place. My mom had a Wards from 1973 that never had a problem. Her house is over 80 years old and has the original pipes, and that Wards heater never got any sort of maintenance. It plugged along for almost 35 years and was loaded with sediment for many years before it sprang a leak. Replaced that with the cheapest gas model from OSH (Sears) and it's doing fine, the burner is very quiet.

My own heater, a "Continental" that was there when we bought our place 17 years ago, sprang a leak shortly after we had some plumbing work done nearby. I shopped on line and found the best deal at Lowe's on a Whirlpool with 2" insulation and "flame lock" that supposedly prevents any fumes from igniting. This heater is located in the garage, where fumes could be an issue. I have no complaints so far with delivery or recovery, but the burner really has a roar to it that I don't like. I didn't bother to do any research before buying other than hitting HD and having the same problem as mentioned above getting any information on their GE's. I went with the Whirlpool since it was on the low end of the energy guide and also since the garage is outfitted with the new Duet pair and my early 70's Whirlpool fridge, I figured why not go totally Whirlpool out there?

Found a guy on Craig's List to install it. To bring things up to code, the new heater had to be on a stand 18" above the floor. This meant re-working the inlet/outlet pipes that come out of the wall along with the gas piping, and it also needed earthquake straps. It ended up costing me more for installation than for the heater, but I couldn't have done the job myself. It's a clean looking arrangement with twin braided inlet & outlet connections arcing from the top of the heater to the wall connections. After reading the Whirlpool literature, I found that the "flame lock" feature eliminates the need for the 18" stand but I've gained some storage space under the heater so it's all good (even though they say not to store anything there). I also like the fact that because the heater has 2" of insulation, there is no need to wrap it with an unsightly blanket.

During installation I was working in my yard and the installer called to me to take a look at something. He showed me the opened box and the heater inside it, totally bashed up on all sides and even the top. We taped the box up and I drove back to Lowe's with it, no short drive as Lowes got to the Bay Area after all the good spots were taken for big box stores. The weird thing is, the box itself didn't look beat up or I wouldn't have selected it.

Got an unbashed up one and installation went fine after that, but for about a month the pilot would go out once in a while. Found that the small copper tube that feeds gas to the pilot was loose at the valve connection. What kind of quality control is that? I'm almost afraid to Google this heater and read of the problems. Maybe if there's a class action suit I'll get $1.29 or something from Whirlpool a few years from now.

 

[lokringbob]

They are pretty much all the same.

I was told a few years ago by a reliable source that there are only two manufacturers of water heaters in the U.S.. They label the product with name brands like Whirlpool, Maytag Reem, Sears and so on. They are just Branded differently and it is the selling of the brand names. There is nothing more or less in the quality of the product. Your just paying a premium for the name like you would for "Polo".
The trick to ,long life is yearly servicing of the water heated.
Once a year turn off the incoming valve, turn the gas setting to off. Then open the drain valve and drain the tank when drained turn on incoming value for a minute or two. to rinse out any additional sediment. This should be done every year once a year. This will prolong the life of your heater and reduce you heating cost because the heat will not have to go through layers of sediment to get to the water. I was also told if it has not been done for awhile like 2 or more years don't bother the sediment has become to big to flush out the drain, or to calcified. FYI

 

[rp2813]

Whirlpool Problem Solved?

I Googled "whirlpool water heater" and ended up on a Consumer Affairs site with a very long list of posts about problems with the thermocouples on Whirlpool (American) gas water heaters going out as often as every few months. Resigning myself to the fact that my heater was likely going to fail sooner rather than later, I kept reading and found a post from 2006 advising that the actual manufacturer, American Water Heater, had re-worked the whole flame-lock system and related thermocouple issues and that there should be no problems with thermocouple failure on heaters manufactured since that time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this is accurate information that applies to my heater. Another post by a plumber advised that all water heaters are now required to have some kind of "flame-lock" system and that they have all been problematic regardless of manufacturer. It seems Whirlpool/American had a serious design flaw that has now been corrected, but the customer service experience for those who had problems has apparently been much worse with Whirlpool than with other manufacturers, and is likely why there are more negative posts about Whirlpool/American than the other makes. Sure hope I'm in the clear on this issue now that American has supposedly re-designed the "flame-lock" system.

 

[sudsmaster]

Tom, german silver is not the same as monel. Monel typically contains 60% or more nickel, with the balance made of primarily of copper. The reverse is true of German silver, which is 60% or more copper, with the remainder made up primaily of nickel, sometimes with a little actual silver as well. To equate the two is somewhat like saying a top loader is the same as a front loader, LOL.

 

[selectomatic]

Monel Metal has the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval!

Here's an advertisment from Good Housekeeping's May, 1936 issue. I hope the image looks OK.

I had to scan it in two bits and stitch them together. My Photoshop skillz aren't what they should be, but you get the idea.

-kevin

 

[goatfarmer]

We have a Maytag branded water heater. No problems in about 4 years.

When we were looking a few years ago, we went to the local Lowes, and Menards, to shop and compare.

Lowes had the Maytag, Menards had a Richmond brand. They had similar features, they were within a few dollars of each other on price. What made the difference?
The Maytag was made by State Industries, in Tennessee. The Richmond came from Mexico. Easy choice!

kennyGF

 

[sudsmaster]

The Monel ad came out great, Selectomatic.

I was intrigued to read the line about the monel-topped Magic Chef range. Now, that would be a real find today. I collected some 50's era Wedgewood gas ranges recently, but the tops are either white porcelain or chromed steel. In most cases, the chrome wears or pits (salt is a big enemy of chrome) and this detracts from their overall appearance and value. But a monel range top, that would be very nice indeed.