Westinghouse Indexing Washtubs

[scrubflex]

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Hi everyone. Still kind of new to the org. so please bear with me.

Does anyone know if it's possible to stop the indexing of the Westinghouse washtubs?

Or can the indexing (rotation arc DEGREE) can be decrease. In stead of it being a 90 degree arc, cut it down to 10 degrees

Also, does anyone have any photos of the 1968-1972 Westinghouse (TOP-OF-THE-LINE) top-loader washer?

For example, the control panel, washer interior, agitators, special features and drive conponents.

Thanks, Harry

 

[frigilux]

There are videos of vintage Westy top-loaders on YouTube----just search "Westinghouse washers".

I don't think you can stop the indexing tub; it's an integral part of the operation of the transmission. Or something like that.

 

[nmaineman36]

With Westinghouse washers I always read that as the load size increases so does indexing. I have seen that for myself when using a WCI Frigidaire washer that had the HydroSurge agitator. With a small load not much indexing happened but increase the load size to Large and it would index the 90 degrees on each back stroke..if I can recall right. Made for interesting washing.

 

[laundromat]

White Westinghouse

In my own recolection and having had a couple of the original Westinghouse as well as White westinghouse top loaders,the original models did not index as severe as the Frigiscares do.They had porcelain on steel inner and outer tubs,a recirculating lint filter,two seperate swirled agitators and a "Lock N'Spin","Weigh to Save"lid.They would spin with the water in the tub and had a prety good spray rinse.The first one I got needed a new timer and ran faithfully in the compound where I lived my Hippy years for 7 years.We used it 4 or 5 times daily.The turn over was average but the spin speed was not that great.The second one I got was in mint condition but the motor had burned out.I replaced it and it ran for 6 years and I gave it to my cousin,Tom,who still has it in use and replaced its pump once a few years ago.I know that machine must be at least 30 years old now!It is the one with the big blue agitator and a Hand wash under it.You can be sure ....if it's Westinghouse.

 

[scrubflex]

Tub Brakes and Anti-Indexing Springs

I've seen the videos from YouTube and also learned something interesting from a former member (Westytoploader).
He wrote the tub indexes during agitation because the machine does not have a tub brake or anti-indexing spring.

Once the motor shut off and the spinning stop the tub coasts to a stop. It took 30 seconds for the tub to come to a complete stop. That is extremely long and kind of dangerous.
He said, older Speed Qoeen and Hotpoint washers didn't have tub brakes either, but they have anti-indexing springs to hold them in place.

I love washing machines, I'm not a mechanic or a repairman guy but, I learn so much from you guys on these threads.
I have a ton of questions and a million ideas.

Can tub brakes or anti-indexing springs be installed in a washer? If it's possible how is done?
Does anyone know how big the real Westinghouse washtub capacity were/are (cu.ft.)? How much laundry could they hold? Are they deep and wide? And, does anyone know the wash & spin speeds (OPM/RPM)?

Harry

 

[tuthill]

Well what coincedence!

I got my hands on a WCI Frigi over thanksgiving weekend!!!!!!!

I may post some of the pics if i get a chance. I found with the lowest water level and no clothes the indexing was fairly small, but as the others noted, it increases with the load. A genuine Bob Load and the thing doesn't even stop on the reverse stroke! All it takes was "braking" the tub with my hand and the stroke was even. I figured one could take a wedge, pound it into the tub ring, thus making an indent. Use this and the wedge to hold the tub in place, and bam, there's some turnover.

Happy washing

 

[SactoTeddyBear]

My Parents Had:

A 1959 Hotpoint Solid Tub Washer, I don't remember the Model Number, but it did have an Indexing Tub. The Indexing and the Spin was Counter-Clockwise. It also had an extra Metal Emblem with a Handle, that you coule turn around the outer part of the Timer to set for either a Full or Partial Load, but the Partial Load Wash and Rinse were almost always a Full Fill, because of the Overflow Rinsing. The Washer had a Bakelite Black Thin Neck Agitator, with 3-Fins at the bottom, with the Lint Filter and Detergent Dish on the upper/middle area of the Agitators Neck. The Fill Flum was also off-set slightly, so it would swirl the Detergent, while getting it wet, to dispense into the Tub. The Washer had a Medium Blue Control Panel, with the Timer Dial on the Right and a separate Wash/Rinse Temp and Speed Push-Buttons and a Rectangle Incandescent Light Lens approx 9-inches long by 2-inches wide on the left side of the Control Panel and the Light would turn On/Off accordingly as to when the Washer was in operation or turned-off.

I wish that I would find another similar or even a little newer Hotpoint Washer like this one sometime.

Peace and Great Hotpoint Laundry Washing, Steve
SactoTeddyBear...

 

[scrubflex]

Hmm!

What about the spin cycles? How can that work, when it's about holding the tub during washes and releasing it for the spins.

 

[jons1077]

Indexing...

In the time I've had my Westinghouse TL I've learned a bit about them. First: a worn belt can create some nasty side effects. Otherwise, the indexing of the tub is not that severe in the older models. Although you can hold the tub in place, it is not really a free-moving washtub. The indexing is systematic in a way. What I mean is it is somehow designed in the transmission to index a certain maximum distance with each agitation stroke.

I just did a "Bobload" of towels in mine this morning. I'd say the index was roughly 2-3 inches per stroke. With the opposite stroke the tub stops and even rebounds a little bit. You can also hear a sort of braking sound on each stroke.

The other reason I think indexing is designed with the transmission is because you will notice the agitator indexing as the tub is slowing down from spinning. There is no brake, however, the transmission/indexing sort of acts as a "soft" brake.

I know there are several videos on youtube. I posted the link to mine on this thread. I tried to capture the above mentioned things in the video such as the indexing, sounds, etc.

Jon

 

[scrubflex]

Bobload...

Perhaps, you can post a video of a "Bobload" of towels on YouTube to see that indexing action.
In the link video the washload seemed to still index a pretty wide stroke, more than 2-3 inches.
You can clearly see how the indexing hampers the cleaning action of the "deep ramp" agitators.

The believe Westinghouse (deep ramp) agitators are better designed than GE (high ramp) agitators. But, GE's work better because there is no indexing. However, Westinghouse (2-in-1, outer), SWIRL-Ramp agitator is the BEST and the strongest of them all. With the "ribbing" on outside wall of the ramps and the "straight vanes" toward the lower edge of the ramps creates a stronger, "dragging" current on the backstroke that forces the load downward harder than the others.

You guys should use that agitator instead. It's really the only way you'll get the best performance from the (deep ramps).
Jon, love your videos. BTW, how many towels could you wash in your Westinghouse (Bobload) washload.

 

[jons1077]

Scrubflex,

I'd use the 2-in-1 agitator for sure if I had one! But I don't :-( Actually the ribs you refer to are on the regular ramp agitator as well. I think the only difference between the two is the appearance of the inside agitator.

I actually think the GE ramp activator is a better design overall. There are a couple of reasons for that in my mind at least. (just my opinion though) I took a few pictures to demonstrate as well.

The first obvious difference between the two is of course the size. V-16 vs. Westy HD 18. Notice also that the curved ramps extend higher up on the Westy than they do on the GE activator. (cue first slide)

 

[jons1077]

notice...

There is alot more curvature on the Westy. You can see it is a "swirl design" with virtually no straight lines anywhere. The GE has minimal curves, basically only at the ends of the vanes and the curves at the upper areas of the ramps. I really feel that less curve means better drag on clothing. Notice also that there are virtically straight vanes that continue up to the top of the GE. The inward angle is essential, I feel, in creating excellent drag as well. I really feel if the Westy just had vanes on the upper portion of the agitator, the turnover would be much better. (next slide)

 

[jons1077]

More Westy...

Of course the Westy agitator is at a great disadvantage for a couple of reasons.

1. indexing tub
2. much bigger tub

It's all in how you look at it too I think. Although turnover may not be as fast in the Westy, I don't think that necessarily means less cleaning. Slow turnover means there IS turnover however. Clothes spend longer in the "no clean" zones (outside and top of the tub) but once they are carried down along the agitator they get a longer period of time in the "clean" zone where they are being agitated. So what you ask? Well, basically I use longer wash times on the Westy to give it enough time to get at least several turnovers.

 

[jons1077]

More Westy...

Of course the Westy agitator is at a great disadvantage for a couple of reasons.

1. indexing tub
2. much bigger tub

It's all in how you look at it too I think. Although turnover may not be as fast in the Westy, I don't think that necessarily means less cleaning. Slow turnover means there IS turnover however. Clothes spend longer in the "no clean" zones (outside and top of the tub) but once they are carried down along the agitator they get a longer period of time in the "clean" zone where they are being agitated. So what you ask? Well, basically I use longer wash times on the Westy to give it enough time to get at least several turnovers.

 

[jons1077]

Oops Sorry...

Didn't mean to double-post there...

(last slide please)

Basically just a photo here pointing out the ribs on the regular Westy ramp. All of the agitating is pretty much going to happen at the base of this puppy. It's a much gentler approach when you think about it. It sort of acts as a washboard.

The swirled ramps slowly suck the clothing downward. The ramps are generally only moving along clothing in a backwards motion due to the tub's indexing. That pretty much leaves the agitation to the fins and "washboard" at the base.

The GE is agitating pretty much from top to bottom more like beating the clothes on a rock. That can also contribute to the idea that filter-flos were very effective at filtering. There is always more lint due to the aggressive washing action. That can be good and bad if you know what I mean.

I will try to get a video of a "bobload" of towels in the Westy today. I will also try to get a good measurement and close-up of the tub indexing. I'll get creative and figure out the best ways so that it's very visible on camera.

Jon

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Jon -

Congrats on EXCELLENT points you've made. I am glad you made the comparison that you did. It has struck me more than once when reading posts here that the coveted "turn over" doesn't do so much on its own as it does in concert with decent washing action once the clothes have been delivered to the "wash zone". It almost seems that we assume that turn over is good for the sake of having it, but something productive needs to be happening in the wash zone, otherwise clothes are just going for a joy ride.

I would prefer to have a load turn over 4 times with heavy wash action in the wash zone vs. having them turn over 8 or 12 times with just a flutter of the agitator each time they pass by.

I wonder why GE and Westinghouse didn't have some sort of "counter flow" vane on their ramp agitators to create more turbulence in the wash zone, like a combo of a straight vane and a ramp?

Gordon

 

[kenmoreguy64]

I guess I should clarify....I'm NOT saying that either agitator was/is lacking in design, or is not useful as is. It seems to have been quite the challenge to design an agitator that combines good turn over with good washing action where it counts.

It would have been interesting to witness what the designers were trying to accomplish when they designed the older agitators and what studies they undertook before bringing their designs to market.

 

[peterh770]

Maybe because Kenmore patented it with the Roto-Swirl...

Seems to me that the Westy index turns against the swirl (clockwise) and the agitator stroke in the counter-clockwise direction is longer, accentuating the "suck down" and turnover.

 

[peterh770]

Maybe because Kenmore patented it with the Roto-Swirl...

Seems to me that the Westy index turns against the swirl (clockwise) and the agitator stroke in the counter-clockwise direction is longer, accentuating the "suck down" and turnover.